[123281] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: Cisco hardware question
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Kaveh .)
Thu Mar 4 18:17:03 2010
From: "Kaveh ." <afx66@hotmail.com>
To: <madcock@hisna.com>, <ken.gilmour@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2010 15:16:01 -0800
In-Reply-To: <EEA8BBE1EFCAB74DB40C6A18550733ADF3440B@HKEMAIL.hke.local>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
Thanks for the feedback. Let me clarify a few things regarding issues that =
this thread has addressed so far:
A) Pre-existing configs: What Tim and Joe mentioned is apparently correct. =
I was on phone with a few Cisco tech-reps earlier today and they told me th=
at since version 8.2=2C they have been shipping ASAs with a default configu=
ration=2C which explains the existence of private IP addresses on the insid=
e interface=2C etc ... .
B) What Cisco reps could NOT explain was the existence of a number of FSCK0=
00#.REC files on these appliances. To be more specific each of ASAs in ques=
tion contains 4 extra files: FSCK0000.REC=2C FSCK0001.REC=2C FSCK0002.REC=
=2C FSCK0003.REC). I said 'extra' because I asked the Cisco reps on phone t=
o provide me a complete list of files that should exist on a brand new ASA=
=2C and the 4 files above were not part of the list and I think even they g=
ot confused when I mentioned the existence of these files.
I could not find much info on these files=2C but a simple Google search ind=
icates that these files may be 'recovery files' of Disks operating under Un=
ix/Linux/BSD/etc /... kernel=2C indicating a dying hard drive. That would b=
e enough to freak me out! Anyone can confirm this?
C) SmarNet issue: I am a little confused on this. Since this purchase was f=
or NEW equipment=2C and the devices were shipped by Cisco (at least that is=
what I read on the box=3B a Cisco warehouse in TX)=2C then my understandin=
g is that the devices came with the first 12 months of Smarnet anyway. So I=
will be surprised if they decline the contract renewal after the first yea=
r. After all they sold us the appliances as if they were new. How can decli=
ne renewal if I can prove that I paid them for new?
D) Reseller: Yes=2C I appreciate the input. I will stick with a bigger name=
like CDW=2C next time=2C but again it appears to me that the devices were =
shipped from a Cisco warehouse in Texas=2C and not from the reseller's loca=
tion.=20
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I would greatly appreciate any input=2C especially on B)
=20
Thank you
=20
Best regards
=20
> Subject: RE: Cisco hardware question
> Date: Thu=2C 4 Mar 2010 14:27:04 -0800
> From: MAdcock@hisna.com
> To: ken.gilmour@gmail.com
> CC: nanog@nanog.org
>=20
> According to previous conversations with my Cisco rep the answer is no - =
Cisco won't support it. I'm blind copying him on this and will pass on his =
response.
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> Thanks=2C
> Matt
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> ________________________________
>=20
> From: Ken Gilmour [mailto:ken.gilmour@gmail.com]
> Sent: Thu 3/4/2010 4:17 PM
> To: Adcock=2C Matt [HISNA]
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Cisco hardware question
>=20
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> So if one were to purchase equipment=2C which is explicitly sold as "Refu=
rbished" from=2C say www.impulsetech.us and they were to offer Smartnet on =
it=2C there is no guarantee that even if you paid for it=2C that Cisco woul=
d fulfil their support contract?
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> Regards=2C
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> Ken
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> On 4 March 2010 15:22=2C Adcock=2C Matt [HISNA] <MAdcock@hisna.com> wrote=
:
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> Don't deploy the equipment=2C demand a refund=2C and report the reseller =
to Cisco. I agree completely with Brian - find a good Cisco partner and sti=
ck with them. Also=2C you can't legally buy used Cisco equipment and use th=
e operating system. You can buy the equipment but the OS is absolutely non-=
transferrable. If you try to get SMARTNet on it red flags will go up and Ci=
sco won't support it.
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> Thanks=2C
> Matt
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> Matt Adcock=2C Manager
> 334-481-6629 (w) / 334-312-5393 (m) / MAdcock@hisna.com
> 700 Hyundai Blvd. / Montgomery=2C AL 36105
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> P
> The average office worker uses 10=2C000 sheets of paper =3D 1.2 trees=2C =
per year
> By not printing this email=2C you've saved paper=2C ink and millions of t=
rees
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> From: Brian Feeny [mailto:bfeeny@mac.com]
> Sent: Thu 3/4/2010 3:05 PM
> To: Kaveh .
> Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Cisco hardware question
>=20
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> If you are getting Cisco hardware with configs on it or crashfiles=2C etc=
. Then no it is NOT new equipment. Who are you buying from? Are they a Gold=
partner on Cisco's partner locator? If not=2C then I have seen some seedy =
things=2C and of course i have seen seedy things with Gold partners too=2C =
I am just pointing out that the ability to compete and make margin get more=
and more difficult the lower the partner is on the totem pole and so despe=
ration can drive certain behavior.
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> In general from a cisco Gold partner you can expect as good as 35-40% or =
so on new equipment for a discount for regular deals. Special pricing for s=
pecial projects you may be able to get a bit better=2C and maybe 1% or so b=
etter for general products from CDW or a big box company like them. If you =
are paying 50-60% off list for just individual items you order=2C then its =
likely not new and there is likely something shady going on=2C as no partne=
r is going to get you some special discount pricing on a single 3845 for ex=
ample.
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> All of your good gold partners are going to charge around the same give o=
r take a few percent on material. So find someone you can trust and just bu=
ild a relationship. If your paying new prices for used gear then yes you ar=
e getting ripped off.
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> I would be glad to recommend to you a reputable gold partner if you email=
me off list.
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> Brian
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> On Mar 4=2C 2010=2C at 3:48 PM=2C Kaveh . wrote:
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> >
> > Hello=2C
> >
> > I apologize if this is an unusual topic but I would like to know what t=
his expert community thinks about this issue:
> >
> > We have noticed that a number of Cisco appliances we have recently purc=
hased and paid (AS NEW)=2C are being shipped as if they have been already u=
sed/refurbished. In other words=2C several times we have seen brand new Cis=
co hardware=2C out of the box=2C that has pre-existing configuration (Inter=
faces with Private IP addresses=2C static routes=2C etc ...) and in some ca=
ses even non-system files=2C like 'crashdump.txt' or additional IOS images.=
Most importantly our latest purchase=3B 2 'new' ASAs=2C contain a series o=
f files named: FSCK0000.REC=2C FSCK0001.REC=2C FSCK0002.REC=2C etc ... . Ba=
sed on some research it seems like that these files are 'recovery files' si=
gnaling bad/failing hard disks in these appliances.
> > Anyone on thhis group has seen this before and if yes=2C are we suppose=
d to blindly trust the vendor saying the hardware is new=2C safe and secure=
?
> >
> > The only way I can explain this is that the hardware has been refurbish=
ed or previously configured for reasons unknown to me. I think if customers=
pays for new hardware=2C they should get new hardware=2C even if refurbish=
ed hardware may be covered by Smartnet.
> >
> > Any thoughts or recommendations anyone? The last thing we want to do is=
to deploy faulty (or non secure) security appliances in production. :)
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Best regards
> >
> >
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