[24045] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Intrachapter dating
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Paul Haring)
Sun Dec 7 22:05:08 2003
Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2003 21:04:53 -0600
Reply-To: Paul Haring <Shadow359@hotmail.com>
From: Paul Haring <Shadow359@hotmail.com>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <20031208022339.18151.qmail@web13426.mail.yahoo.com>
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In Omega chapter we have had some recent history with this issue. In
fall 2001, the semester just before I pledged there was an incident
where a Pledge was dating the pledge educator. The exact details as to
whether or not they were dating BEFORE he pledged is not easily
answered. However, what is is the fact that it caused a huge rift in
the chapter. The situation ended when the Educators term came up (we
re-elect in the winter for two semesters) and they both have been a
phantom in our chapter ever since.
We have a few instances of inter-chapter dating on the active/active
level and one of those just recently turned to engagement.
Long story short, our chapter (probably around 120-150 members. We just
activated 41 pledges today so I don't know the exact numbers) does not
hold an official policy regarding dating. As a rule of thumb, the
Pledge educator just does not date a pledge.
-----Original Message-----
From: Alpha Phi Omega Discussion List [mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU]
On Behalf Of Rachel Kuhn
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2003 8:24 PM
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Subject: Re: [APO-L] Intrachapter dating
I pledged a larger chapter where we never really had a problem with
brothers dating, it was actually rather common (and when you think about
it, when a coed group of people with common goals and interests spend
most of their free time together doing things and having fun,
relationships are bound to happen) . My chapter also had close to 150
members and pledges at any given time, so relationships/breakups have
never been a problem--they almost always ended on good terms and these
brothers were able to go about lives in the fraternity happily. We also
never had problems with boyfriends/girlfriends of actives pledging,
since the pledge had a different big/family. If a new relationship was
forming it typically waited until after activation. (People used that
common sense). My chapter was also not permitted to be selective by
university policy so we really couldnt regulate that stuff too much (not
letting boyfriends or girlfriends of actives pledge, etc--we'd lose all
our funding if that happened).
I can definately see where a smaller chapter can have problems caused by
brothers dating and breaking up. For example, a chapter has ten actve
brothers. Two are dating, get in a fight, and break up. One of the
newly single brothers goes on a date with someone else in teh chapter.
All of a sudden you have a three way mess, and surely the rest of the
brothers not directly involved will take sides in a situation like this.
That's a recipe for disaster...but you can't really help or prevent who
people date or fall in love with, so I don't think having a policy on
chapter relationships is fair/needed.
Rachel Kuhn
Section 89 staff
Buddha Buck <bmbuck@14850.com> wrote:
Michael Gallagher wrote:
> Greetings,
>
> What policies on intrachapter dating exist? Has there ever been a
situation
> when a Brother's/officer's/VPM's fiance(e) has pledged? What has been
done
> in these situations.
My chapter (Epsilon Sigma, University at Buffalo) didn't have an oficial
policy on intrachapter dating while I was there. In fact, there were
lots of cases of brothers dating brothers. There are a handful of
intrachapter marriages as well.
While there was no official policy, for risk-management reasons
brother/pledge dating and especially big/little dating (during the
pledge period) was frowned upon because of power/harassment issues. If
the relationship predated the pledge pledging, then it wasn't frowned
upon.
In my pledge class, two pledges started dating each other, and
immediately after the brotherhood ritual, two Brother/NIB relationships
(one big/little) were announced. As I understand it, one of those
clandestine brother/pledge relationships ended up in a marriage.
(To make things even weirder, the *other* boyfriend of one of the two
pledges who started dating each other pledged the next semester).
>
> I've never been on a date, but I would think that fiance(e)s pledging
is
> different from boyfriends & girlfriends pledging .
>
> In LFS,
>
> Michael Gallagher
> Historian & Alumni VP (gotta get used to this; I was Webmaster or co-
since
> Spring 2002)
Rachel Kuhn
Graduate Assistant
Office of Professional Development
Syracuse University
250 Huntington Hall
(315) 443-4696
Alpha Phi Omega
Section 89 Staff
rmkuhn@syr.edu
iceangel99@yahoo.com
_____
Do you Yahoo!?
Free <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/slv/mailtag/*http:/companion.yahoo.com/>
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<body lang=3DEN-US link=3Dblue vlink=3Dblue style=3D'tab-interval:.5in'>
<div class=3DSection1>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'>In Omega =
<span
class=3DGramE>chapter</span> we have had some recent history with this =
issue. <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>In fall 2001, the semester just =
before I
pledged there was an incident where a Pledge was dating the pledge
educator.<span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>The exact =
details as to
whether or not they were dating BEFORE he pledged is not easily =
answered. <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>However, what is is the fact =
that it
caused a huge rift in the chapter.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span>The situation ended when the Educators term came up (we re-elect =
in the
winter for two semesters) and they both have been a phantom in our =
chapter ever
since.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'>We have a =
few
instances of inter-chapter dating on the active/active level and one of =
those
just recently turned to engagement.<span =
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'>
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DGramE><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'>Long story =
short, our
chapter (probably around 120-150 members.</span></font></span><font
color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span =
style=3D'font-family:Garamond;color:black'> <span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>We just activated 41 pledges =
today so I
don’t know the exact numbers<span class=3DGramE>)<span
style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>does</span> not hold an =
official policy
regarding dating. <span style=3D'mso-spacerun:yes'> </span>As a =
rule of
thumb, the Pledge educator just does not date a =
pledge.<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3DGaramond><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Garamond;color:black'><o:p> </=
o:p></span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Alpha Phi Omega =
Discussion
List [mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU] <b><span =
style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On
Behalf Of </span></b>Rachel Kuhn<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> =
</span></font><st1:date
Month=3D"12" Day=3D"7" Year=3D"2003"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>Sunday, December 07, =
2003</span></font></st1:date><font
size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'> </span></font><st1:time
Hour=3D"20" Minute=3D"24"><font size=3D2 face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma'>8:24 PM</span></font></st1:time><font size=3D2 =
face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'><br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: [APO-L] =
Intrachapter
dating</span></font></p>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><o:p> </o:p></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I pledged a larger chapter where we never =
really had a
problem with brothers dating, it was actually rather common (and when =
you think
about it, when a coed group of people with common goals and =
interests
spend most of their free time together doing things and having fun,
relationships are bound to happen) . My chapter also had =
close to
150 members and pledges at any given time, so relationships/breakups =
have never
been a problem--they almost always ended on good terms and these =
brothers were
able to go about lives in the fraternity happily. We also never =
had
problems with boyfriends/girlfriends of actives pledging, since the =
pledge had
a different big/family. If a new relationship was forming it =
typically
waited until after activation. (People used that common =
sense). My
chapter was also not permitted to be selective by university policy so =
we
really couldnt regulate that stuff too much (not letting boyfriends or =
girlfriends
of actives pledge, etc--we'd lose all our funding if that =
happened). <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>I can definately see where a smaller chapter =
can have
problems caused by brothers dating and breaking up. For example, a
chapter has ten actve brothers. Two are dating, get in a fight, =
and break
up. One of the newly single brothers goes on a date with someone =
else in
teh chapter. All of a sudden you have a three way mess, and surely =
the
rest of the brothers not directly involved will take sides in a =
situation like
this. That's a recipe for disaster...but you can't really help or =
prevent
who people date or fall in love with, so I don't think having a policy =
on
chapter relationships is fair/needed. <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'> <o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Rachel Kuhn<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Section 89 staff<br>
<br>
<b><i><span style=3D'font-weight:bold;font-style:italic'>Buddha Buck
<bmbuck@14850.com></span></i></b> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF =
1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;
margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Michael Gallagher wrote:<br>
> Greetings,<br>
><br>
> What policies on intrachapter dating exist? Has there ever been a
situation<br>
> when a Brother's/officer's/VPM's fiance(e) has pledged? What has =
been done<br>
> in these situations.<br>
<br>
My chapter (Epsilon Sigma, University at =
</span></font><st1:City><st1:place>Buffalo</st1:place></st1:City>)
didn't have an oficial<br>
policy on intrachapter dating while I was there. In fact, there were<br>
lots of cases of brothers dating brothers. There are a handful of<br>
intrachapter marriages as well.<br>
<br>
While there was no official policy, for risk-management reasons<br>
brother/pledge dating and especially big/little dating (during the<br>
pledge period) was frowned upon because of power/harassment issues. =
If<br>
the relationship predated the pledge pledging, then it wasn't frowned =
upon.<br>
<br>
In my pledge class, two pledges started dating each other, and<br>
immediately after the brotherhood ritual, two Brother/NIB =
relationships<br>
(one big/little) were announced. As I understand it, one of those<br>
clandestine brother/pledge relationships ended up in a marriage.<br>
<br>
(To make things even weirder, the *other* boyfriend of one of the =
two<br>
pledges who started dating each other pledged the next semester).<br>
<br>
><br>
> I've never been on a date, but I would think that fiance(e)s =
pledging is<br>
> different from boyfriends & girlfriends pledging .<br>
><br>
> In LFS,<br>
><br>
> Michael Gallagher<br>
> Historian & Alumni VP (gotta get used to this; I was Webmaster =
or co-
since<br>
> Spring 2002)<o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><br>
<br>
Rachel Kuhn<br>
<br>
Graduate Assistant<br>
Office of Professional Development<br>
</span></font><st1:place><st1:PlaceName>Syracuse</st1:PlaceName> =
<st1:PlaceType>University</st1:PlaceType></st1:place><br>
250 <st1:City><st1:place>Huntington</st1:place></st1:City> Hall<br>
(315) 443-4696<br>
<br>
Alpha Phi Omega<br>
Section 89 Staff<br>
<br>
rmkuhn@syr.edu<br>
iceangel99@yahoo.com<o:p></o:p></p>
<div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in;text-align:center'><font
size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>
<hr size=3D1 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter>
</span></font></div>
<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'>Do you Yahoo!?<br>
<a =
href=3D"http://us.rd.yahoo.com/slv/mailtag/*http:/companion.yahoo.com/">F=
ree
Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now</a><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
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