[5550] in APO Printshop
Re: Wedding invitations - late fees + accepting jobs
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Lori Tsuruda)
Tue Jan 20 22:52:52 2009
In-Reply-To: <B2501968-C9C3-4D26-9B85-989FDCF17989@mit.edu>
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 22:52:42 -0500
From: Lori Tsuruda <lori@pmd.org>
To: apo-printshop@mit.edu
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I think that since letterpress printing is a special service performed by
individual brothers who donate lengthy personal time, it really IS important
that customers understand at least this aspect and operational limitations.
I don't think that it's feasible or efficient for the PSM to act as a
go-between among press ops and potential customers.
I don't recall if I already wrote this (so please excuse any repetition):
I think that wedding invitations are not good jobs for training or
qualifying
since the error rate tends to be higher for newbies and people tend not to
purchase enough extra cardstock. Plus there is the issue of the paper
type and coating, which can increase the error rate.
An ideal training run has a few lines of type for a few hundred impressions
in one color ink, like business cards, return address on the back of
envelopes, and note cards.
An ideal qualifying run can have more type (since all but 1-2 lines can be
pre-set prior to the beginning of the qualifying) and more impressions.
It can be more than one color, but only one color is needed for qualifying
purposes.
Btw, thanks to the %#@! snow plows that filled my parking space with
heavy snow AFTER I shoveled it out for an hour on Sunday, I have
reinjured both forearms/wrists in the process of reshoveling so that I
could park and then load and unload 100 pounds of materials and
equipment for yesterday's PMD-MLK project. So, *I cannot train
until I'm healed, ~1 month. I can still qualify (since this doesn't
require that I lift the heavy chase or type cases).*
Yilfs,
Lori
On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Cat Thu Nguyen Huu <catthu@mit.edu> wrote:
> Short version: if we want to progress in our goal of making the printshop
> service more well-known at MIT, I'd be more concerned about how we look from
> the outside than whether other people understand the printshop operation or
> not.
>
> Long version: (+ paragraphs about the current jobs at the end)
>
> it is more important, that potential customers understand that
>> letterpress printing is very labor intensive.
>> that is is NOT like using a word processor and a computer printer.
>> that every character is on a physical piece of metal, that needs to
>> be hand assembled, and dis-assembled.
>> that every piece of paper needs to be feed and taken out of the
>> press by hand
>> and that there are other steps that take a lot of time
>>
>
>
> While most customers who actively want their print jobs to be done this way
> are likely to know some differences between the press and a laser printer, I
> don't think we should assume that everyone understands the
> labor-intensiveness, nor should we try to give them some insights on our
> internal operations. "It takes 10 hours or more to do this job" is a
> reasonable thing to say, but beyond that I'll just let them arrive at their
> own conclusions. I think compassion is not to be expected in a
> money-involved business, even when the business is charged at-cost, because
> it doesn't matter whether the money part is profitable or not, if there's
> monetary payment there will be expectations . For examples, pretend that we
> don't charge the operating cost:
>
> 1/ The customer supplies cardstocks and ink, we print for them for free
>
> 2/ The customer doesn't supply anything, and we charge them for the
> materials
>
> Although 1/ and 2/ are the same thing for us, it doesn't have the same
> psychological effect on the other party.
>
> * it has always been the policy of the press shop that
>>
>> ONLY QUALIFIED PRESS OPERATORS CAN ACCEPT JOBS
>>
>> not the press shop manager
>> not the service vice president
>> not a chapter officer
>> not God ; - }
>>
>
>
> Talking about psychological effects, if one of our goals is to put the
> printshop back on regular operation within the extent where we can afford,
> telling the customer "I can't accept jobs because I'm just the manager, not
> an operator, and I can't tell you whether we'll accept this job or not until
> an operator decides to accept it" doesn't look very good either. I believe
> most customers will value a clear "No" much more than that ambiguity; and
> from our side, a clear "No" also looks much better than letting the answer
> hanging there. In the former, if I were a customer, at least the next time
> when I wanted to print something, I would try again because it wouldn't hurt
> to do. But if the latter were the case, trying would cost me time that I
> wouldn't have to waste if I used other more reliable services. The best
> thing I think I can do about this is to send an email to apo-printshop to
> ask if anyone can get the job done within the time the customer give us, and
> assume that APO brothers are responsible enough to not to say yes and
> suddenly decide that they don't have time. In case no one thinks they can,
> then either I will do it or it will be a no.
>
> * late fees have never been good in getting customers to give us
>> enough notice.
>> they create an expectation, that the APOster letterpress shop can
>> get work done on short notice, if the customer is willing to pay
>> more.
>> when the reality is:
>> getting a job printed depends on a qualified press op having the
>> time to do the job
>>
>
> So, just like having a fee doesn't guarantee that the job will be taken,
> having a late fee doesn't guarantee that a lately-noticed job will be taken,
> it means that in case it is there will be a late fee associated due to the
> inconvenience for the operator. If late fees are just not good in general
> and make us look more like a profiting business than a self-maintaining
> service, then I suggest we eliminate them altogether.
>
> </ long version>
>
> I understand Len's concerns about giving high-quality jobs to trainees,
> although I'd like to note that as a trainee I'd prefer something difficult
> and useful to something easy but relatively unnecessary. A reasonable
> compromise is to give the job to qualifying runs only, which will allows the
> trainee to get enough practice before. Or vice versa, give the job to the
> training runs only, because in the training run the trainer is likely to do
> the majority of the job anyways. I'm not sure which approach is better.
>
> Talking about which, I'd like to kindly note that currently we're having
> two people wanting to be trained/qualified, which fits nicely with the two
> jobs we have (and no, I did ask and Anne doesn't want the envelopes
> printed).
>
> Cat
>
> On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:36 PM, Leonard H Tower Jr. wrote:
>
> * it has always been the policy of the press shop that
>>
>> ONLY QUALIFIED PRESS OPERATORS CAN ACCEPT JOBS
>>
>> not the press shop manager
>> not the service vice president
>> not a chapter officer
>> not God ; - }
>>
>> * the press shop manager has to try and find press ops to do jobs,
>> NOT ACCEPT JOBS
>>
>> * if a press shop manager (psm) who is a press operator accepts a job,
>> then he/she should be sure they have the time to do it for the
>> customer by the time the customer needs it
>>
>> it's ok for the psm to try to get another press operator to do the
>> job, even trying to get a journeyman and a wantabe press op together
>> to get a training or qualifying run completed
>>
>> * late fees have never been good in getting customers to give us
>> enough notice.
>> they create an expectation, that the APOster letterpress shop can
>> get work done on short notice, if the customer is willing to pay
>> more.
>> when the reality is:
>> getting a job printed depends on a qualified press op having the
>> time to do the job
>>
>> when we had many press ops who could print, it was a way to earn a
>> little more money for the press fund.
>> but we haven't had this many press ops in a long time
>>
>> it is more important, that potential customers understand that
>> letterpress printing is very labor intensive.
>> that is is NOT like using a word processor and a computer printer.
>> that every character is on a physical piece of metal, that needs to
>> be hand assembled, and dis-assembled.
>> that every piece of paper needs to be feed and taken out of the
>> press by hand
>> and that there are other steps that take a lot of time
>>
>> a short way of saying this, is to tell the customer it could take a
>> volunteer ten hours or more to do their print job
>>
>> * btw, i dislike training or qualifying on jobs that need high quality.
>> though i do do it.
>> it's hard for a novice to do a high quality job the first or second
>> time out.
>> which means, i do more of the real work, and they have less of a
>> learning experience
>>
>> yiLFS -len
>>
>> ps: i suspect that the time frame Anne has for her wedding invitations
>> will allow Cat to get me or Lori to use Anne's jobs for training or
>> qualification runs, but maybe not ...
>>
>
>
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I think that since letterpress printing is a special service performed by i=
ndividual brothers who donate lengthy personal time, it really IS important=
that customers understand at least this aspect and operational limitations=
.<br>
<br>I don't think that it's feasible or efficient for the PSM to ac=
t as a go-between among press ops and potential customers.<br><br>I don'=
;t recall if I already wrote this (so please excuse any repetition):<br>
I think that wedding invitations are not good jobs for training or qualifyi=
ng <br>since the error rate tends to be higher for newbies and people tend =
not to <br>purchase enough extra cardstock. Plus there is the issue of the =
paper <br>
type and coating, which can increase the error rate.<br><br>An ideal traini=
ng run has a few lines of type for a few hundred impressions<br>in one colo=
r ink, like business cards, return address on the back of envelopes, and no=
te cards.<br>
<br>An ideal qualifying run can have more type (since all but 1-2 lines can=
be pre-set prior to the beginning of the qualifying) and more impressions.=
<br>It can be more than one color, but only one color is needed for qualify=
ing<br>
purposes.<br><br>Btw, thanks to the %#@! snow plows that filled my parking =
space with<br>heavy snow AFTER I shoveled it out for an hour on Sunday, I h=
ave <br>reinjured both forearms/wrists in the process of reshoveling so tha=
t I <br>
could park and then load and unload 100 pounds of materials and <br>equipme=
nt for yesterday's PMD-MLK project. So, <u><b>I cannot train <br>until =
I'm healed, ~1 month. I can still qualify (since this doesn't<br>
require that I lift the heavy chase or type cases).</b></u><br><br>Yilfs,<b=
r>Lori<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue, Jan 20, 2009 at 12:07 AM, =
Cat Thu Nguyen Huu <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:catthu@mit.edu">=
catthu@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">Short version: if=
we want to progress in our goal of making the printshop service more well-=
known at MIT, I'd be more concerned about how we look from the outside =
than whether other people understand the printshop operation or not.<br>
<br>
Long version: (+ paragraphs about the current jobs at the end)<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
it is more important, that potential customers understand that<br>
letterpress printing is very labor intensive.<br>
that is is NOT like using a word processor and a computer printer.<br=
>
that every character is on a physical piece of metal, that needs to<b=
r>
be hand assembled, and dis-assembled.<br>
that every piece of paper needs to be feed and taken out of the<br>
press by hand<br>
and that there are other steps that take a lot of time<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
While most customers who actively want their print jobs to be done this way=
are likely to know some differences between the press and a laser printer,=
I don't think we should assume that everyone understands the labor-int=
ensiveness, nor should we try to give them some insights on our internal op=
erations. "It takes 10 hours or more to do this job" is a reasona=
ble thing to say, but beyond that I'll just let them arrive at their ow=
n conclusions. I think compassion is not to be expected in a money-involved=
business, even when the business is charged at-cost, because it doesn'=
t matter whether the money part is profitable or not, if there's moneta=
ry payment there will be expectations . For examples, pretend that we don&#=
39;t charge the operating cost:<br>
<br>
1/ The customer supplies cardstocks and ink, we print for them for free<br>
<br>
2/ The customer doesn't supply anything, and we charge them for the mat=
erials<br>
<br>
Although 1/ and 2/ are the same thing for us, it doesn't have the same =
psychological effect on the other party.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
* it has always been the policy of the press shop that<br>
<br>
ONLY QUALIFIED PRESS OPERATORS CAN ACCEPT JOBS<br>
<br>
not the press shop manager<br>
not the service vice president<br>
not a chapter officer<br>
not God ; - }<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
Talking about psychological effects, if one of our goals is to put the prin=
tshop back on regular operation within the extent where we can afford, tell=
ing the customer "I can't accept jobs because I'm just the man=
ager, not an operator, and I can't tell you whether we'll accept th=
is job or not until an operator decides to accept it" doesn't look=
very good either. I believe most customers will value a clear "No&quo=
t; much more than that ambiguity; and from our side, a clear "No"=
also looks much better than letting the answer hanging there. In the forme=
r, if I were a customer, at least the next time when I wanted to print some=
thing, I would try again because it wouldn't hurt to do. But if the lat=
ter were the case, trying would cost me time that I wouldn't have to wa=
ste if I used other more reliable services. The best thing I think I can do=
about this is to send an email to apo-printshop to ask if anyone can get t=
he job done within the time the customer give us, and assume that APO broth=
ers are responsible enough to not to say yes and suddenly decide that they =
don't have time. In case no one thinks they can, then either I will do =
it or it will be a no.<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
* late fees have never been good in getting customers to give us<br>
enough notice.<br>
they create an expectation, that the APOster letterpress shop can<br>
get work done on short notice, if the customer is willing to pay<br>
more.<br>
when the reality is:<br>
getting a job printed depends on a qualified press op having the<br>
time to do the job<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
So, just like having a fee doesn't guarantee that the job will be taken=
, having a late fee doesn't guarantee that a lately-noticed job will be=
taken, it means that in case it is there will be a late fee associated due=
to the inconvenience for the operator. If late fees are just not good in g=
eneral and make us look more like a profiting business than a self-maintain=
ing service, then I suggest we eliminate them altogether.<br>
<br>
</ long version><br>
<br>
I understand Len's concerns about giving high-quality jobs to trainees,=
although I'd like to note that as a trainee I'd prefer something d=
ifficult and useful to something easy but relatively unnecessary. A reasona=
ble compromise is to give the job to qualifying runs only, which will allow=
s the trainee to get enough practice before. Or vice versa, give the job to=
the training runs only, because in the training run the trainer is likely =
to do the majority of the job anyways. I'm not sure which approach is b=
etter.<br>
<br>
Talking about which, I'd like to kindly note that currently we're h=
aving two people wanting to be trained/qualified, which fits nicely with th=
e two jobs we have (and no, I did ask and Anne doesn't want the envelop=
es printed).<br>
<br>
Cat<br>
<br>
On Jan 18, 2009, at 6:36 PM, Leonard H Tower Jr. wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
* it has always been the policy of the press shop that<br>
<br>
ONLY QUALIFIED PRESS OPERATORS CAN ACCEPT JOBS<br>
<br>
not the press shop manager<br>
not the service vice president<br>
not a chapter officer<br>
not God ; - }<br>
<br>
* the press shop manager has to try and find press ops to do jobs,<br>
NOT ACCEPT JOBS<br>
<br>
* if a press shop manager (psm) who is a press operator accepts a job,<br>
then he/she should be sure they have the time to do it for the<br>
customer by the time the customer needs it<br>
<br>
it's ok for the psm to try to get another press operator to do th=
e<br>
job, even trying to get a journeyman and a wantabe press op together<=
br>
to get a training or qualifying run completed<br>
<br>
* late fees have never been good in getting customers to give us<br>
enough notice.<br>
they create an expectation, that the APOster letterpress shop can<br>
get work done on short notice, if the customer is willing to pay<br>
more.<br>
when the reality is:<br>
getting a job printed depends on a qualified press op having the<br>
time to do the job<br>
<br>
when we had many press ops who could print, it was a way to earn a<br=
>
little more money for the press fund.<br>
but we haven't had this many press ops in a long time<br>
<br>
it is more important, that potential customers understand that<br>
letterpress printing is very labor intensive.<br>
that is is NOT like using a word processor and a computer printer.<br=
>
that every character is on a physical piece of metal, that needs to<b=
r>
be hand assembled, and dis-assembled.<br>
that every piece of paper needs to be feed and taken out of the<br>
press by hand<br>
and that there are other steps that take a lot of time<br>
<br>
a short way of saying this, is to tell the customer it could take a<b=
r>
volunteer ten hours or more to do their print job<br>
<br>
* btw, i dislike training or qualifying on jobs that need high quality.<br>
though i do do it.<br>
it's hard for a novice to do a high quality job the first or seco=
nd<br>
time out.<br>
which means, i do more of the real work, and they have less of a<br>
learning experience<br>
<br>
yiLFS -len<br>
<br>
ps: i suspect that the time frame Anne has for her wedding invitations<br>
will allow Cat to get me or Lori to use Anne's jobs for training or<br>
qualification runs, but maybe not ...<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><br><br>
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