[9366] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2961 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jun 24 14:18:02 1998
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 11:00:32 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 24 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2961
Today's topics:
2 Minutes of your time gentleman !! <delta@netpage.tm.fr>
? Moderated clpm ? (Darwin O.V. Alonso)
Re: ? Moderated clpm ? dgris@rand.dimensional.com
Re: ? Moderated clpm ? (Craig Berry)
Re: Curses module - need help (bgeer)
Re: Dbi Informix driver <rastaman@globalcenter.net>
Re: Flames.... <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Re: Flames.... (T. Ames)
Matching problem. Empty variable not matching. <laurence@vhealth.vegnet.com>
NEED HELP !!!!!! <delta@netpage.tm.fr>
Re: Print from Win32 (Jeffrey R. Drumm)
Re: string substitution <stowians@ford.com>
Re: string substitution <stowians@ford.com>
Re: system() and security again (Larry Rosler)
Re: Trouble with execution of simple CGI <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Craig Berry)
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Craig Berry)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:19:32 +0200
From: "delta" <delta@netpage.tm.fr>
Subject: 2 Minutes of your time gentleman !!
Message-Id: <6mrc1v$f71$1@front5.grolier.fr>
How could I avoid to get a "space line" type:
----------------------------------
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
when nothing is drop in a FIC
Look at the PRINT FIC script
and if nothing have been write in the titre3 field (or other field) , I get
blank line in my FIC
print FIC "$in{'lieu2'}\n";
print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'texte1'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'titre2'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'texte2'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'titre3'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
Thanks for your help
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 16:54:25 GMT
From: dalonso@u.washington.edu (Darwin O.V. Alonso)
Subject: ? Moderated clpm ?
Message-Id: <6mrb01$1c3i$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>
What is the status of getting a moderated comp.lang.perl?
Has the been a call for discussion?
Has the been a call for votes?
Darwin
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:27:03 GMT
From: dgris@rand.dimensional.com
Subject: Re: ? Moderated clpm ?
Message-Id: <6mrcbe$8c9$1@rand.dimensional.com>
[posted and mailed to the cited author]
In article <6mrb01$1c3i$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu>,
Darwin O.V. Alonso <dalonso@u.washington.edu> wrote:
>What is the status of getting a moderated comp.lang.perl?
>Has the been a call for discussion?
>Has the been a call for votes?
>
It is being voted on now. The CFV was posted to news.groups,
comp.lang.perl.misc, and a couple of other places. You can
find it at deja news.
>Darwin
Daniel
--
Daniel Grisinger dgris@perrin.dimensional.com
"No kings, no presidents, just a rough consensus and
running code."
Dave Clark
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:49:40 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: ? Moderated clpm ?
Message-Id: <6mre7k$4ko$7@marina.cinenet.net>
Darwin O.V. Alonso (dalonso@u.washington.edu) wrote:
: What is the status of getting a moderated comp.lang.perl?
: Has the been a call for discussion?
: Has the been a call for votes?
Yes on both the latter two questions; see news.groups. Voting deadline is
June 30; we should hear results July 1 or soon thereafter.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:17:28 -0600
From: bgeer@xmission.xmission.com (bgeer)
Subject: Re: Curses module - need help
Message-Id: <6mrcb8$mfk$1@xmission.xmission.com>
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
>bgeer <bgeer@xmission.xmission.com> writes:
>> I am using the Curses module & have one problem I haven't overcome yet.
>> I need a nonblocking method for interrogating keyboard input. So far,
>> my code:
>> $data_window->nodelay( 1 ) ;
>> $key_value = $data_window->getch() ;
>> $data_window->nodelay( 0 ) ;
>> if ($key_value != -1) { last ; }
>> is close to what I need, but "getch()" returns -1 (no input) or the
>> actual character typed when there is input. My problem is this message:
>> key value: -1Argument "a" isn't numeric in ne at testkbd.pl line 52.
>...Have you checked
>to see if getch() actually returns undef if there's no input rather than
>-1?
Perl getch() indeed returns numeric -1 when no input is available or
the next char when input is available.
I found 2 solutions:
1st, removing "-w" resulted in no complaint. With many thanks to the
people who responded with this suggestion, my personal preference is
to turn on warning messages & change code to comply with expectations.
2nd, putting getch() in a function that passes the return value out to
a calling function, then testing the value, obscures data type issues
enough that the warning message isn't generated. At least, not in my
Perl-newbie code. Hope this is useful to some of you'all...
sub keypressed()
{
my( $char ) ;
# Curses package stuff: #
$data_window->nodelay( 1 ) ;
$char = $data_window->getch() ;
$data_window->nodelay( 0 ) ;
return( $char ) ;
} # keypressed() #
sub change_function()
{
my( $key_value ) = @_ ;
my( $key ) ;
my ( %menu_functions ) =
(
"2" => \&a_function,
"3" => \&another_function,
"4" => \&yet_some_other_function,
"e" => \&myPexit,
"q" => \&my_exit,
"x" => \&my_exit
) ; # %menu_functions #
# Look for a matching key: #
foreach $key (keys %topmenu_functions)
{
# This key match? #
if ($key_value eq $key)
{
# Yes, it will eventually become current selection: #
return( $true ) ;
} # if #
} # foreach #
# No change: #
return( $false ) ;
} # change_function() #
sub one_of_several_data_display_functions()
{
my ( $key_value ) ;
... [ display setup code ] ...
# Display data until a key is pressed: #
while ($true)
{
# Display current data: #
&display_data() ;
# Retrieve keyboard input; a char if one was pressed, or -1: #
$key_value = &keypressed() ;
# Determine if input should change context: #
if (&change_function( $key_value ))
{
# Yes, we're outta here: #
last ;
} # if #
} # while #
return( $key_value ) ;
} # one_of_several_data_display_functions() #
--
<> Robert Geer & Donna Tomky / * <>
<> bgeer@xmission.com | _o * o * o <>
<> Salt Lake City, Utah | -\<, * <\ </L <>
<> U S A | O/ O __ /__, /> <>
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 10:05:01 -0700
From: "Jesse T. Beveridge" <rastaman@globalcenter.net>
Subject: Re: Dbi Informix driver
Message-Id: <6mrbjt$8p3@nntp02.primenet.com>
I've been using it on a solaris box with a pretty good sucess rate. Of
course I'm also not trying to do anything fancy. Just some basic data
manipulation and execution of stored procs.
-- Jesse
Andrew Lovell wrote in message <358D6DBF.FC92508F@studioware.pt>...
>Has anyone tried the Dbi Informix driver, if so what was it like?
>stable? fast? slow?
>
>Thanks
>Andy Lovell
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:14:57 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Subject: Re: Flames....
Message-Id: <8ciulqzpq2.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Leslie" == Leslie Mikesell <les@MCS.COM> writes:
Leslie> It's odd that there is such a remarkable similarity in the
Leslie> names of these O'Reilly shills and the regular people on
Leslie> c.l.p.m. then. Hmmm, what about the pictures? Maybe it is
Leslie> the posters here that are the imposters... Can someone who
Leslie> goes to the tutorials report back on how often the 'read the
Leslie> FAQ' and 'go to the right forum' phrases are uttered?
I'm not sure if this was tongue-in-cheek. You are missing a smiley.
Are you saying that you expect the same level of "the customer is
always right" service that I constantly give my paying clients as when
I'm answering Usenet posts for free (and actually at a cost of my
time)?
Have you gone mad?
This is a completely invalid comparison.
As a volunteer answer person, I have every right to request that the
people that ask questions go through a certain minimum amount of work
on their own. As a *paid* lecturer or consultant, I'm not afforded
that privilege. I commit to producing a result, and I produce that
result regardless of where the customer's experience is at, or the
format in which they ask the questions.
But I do think you've hit the nail on the head. Some posters here in
clpm expect 1-900-support-line level service for FREE. Duh! Not
gonna happen, folks. These are *volunteers* answering the questions.
They have every right to be snippy when the 47th posting of the day in
the wrong group shows up in the unread window, when a few days reading
of the same group would have shown them the error of their ways. "You
must be THIS tall to post to Usenet." Get a grip.
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $20,990.69 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 68 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:48:12 GMT
From: ames0009@tc.umn.edu (T. Ames)
Subject: Re: Flames....
Message-Id: <359138ab.3028555@news.tc.umn.edu>
Part of the problem here is that there are a group of Perl experts who
read this NG with no intention of ever asking questions of the group.
Now, of course, this can be seen as solely a positive -- but some of
the time it has a down side. Rather than coming to the group in the
spirit of mutual aid, they (some of them, not all) come here in the
guise of an oracle. An oracle that will only deign to answer
questions if they are posed in just the right manner -- otherwise
"hellfire and brimstone."
The arrogance of this attitude has really created a hostile atmosphere
in this group. This is not to say that there are none to blame on the
other "side" (the newbies). But what the newbies do they usually do
out of ignorance -- and what some of the experts do is done out of
malice. Going out of one's way to insult someone is childish....
(Now tell me that posting stupid questions is childish, etc,
etc.....and it never ends).
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:35:20 +0000
From: Laurence Brockman <laurence@vhealth.vegnet.com>
Subject: Matching problem. Empty variable not matching.
Message-Id: <35912AC7.A45214A7@vhealth.vegnet.com>
Here's the code that isn't working
sub compare1 {
my ($line) = shift @_;
chomp($line);
@args = @_;
$_ = $line;
(@line) = split /;;/;
$match = 1;
$i=0;
foreach $entry (@line) {
$_ = $entry;
if (/$args[$i]/i) {
print "$args[$i] matched $entry\n";
} else {
print "$args[$i] didn't match $entry\n";
$match = 0;
}
$i++
}
print "Match is $match in compare function\n";
return $match;
}
All the arguments passed to this function currently are "" except for
the first line (Which is a line from a database - fields being seperated
by ";;"). Now with all the the other arguments being null they should
math no matter what the comparison is, correct? The first time it runs
through the foreach loop it doesn't match. It prints
" didn't match June 23, 1998"
While all other entrie match. Does anyone have an idea why this is
happening (Feel free to flame me if this is a simple answer, but please
include the answer in the flame too. ;)
Thanks,
Laurence
--
Legal Warning: Do NOT send unsolicited commercial
email to me - consider this as an official notice:
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By
Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is UNLAWFUL to send any unsolicited advertisement to such
equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
PUNISHABLE by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:01:14 +0200
From: "delta" <delta@netpage.tm.fr>
Subject: NEED HELP !!!!!!
Message-Id: <6mravk$c77$1@front5.grolier.fr>
How could I avoid to get a "space line" type:
----------------------------------
---------------------------------
---------------------------------
when nothing is drop in a FIC value
Look at the PRINT FIC script
and if nothing have been write in the titre3 field (or other field) , I get
blank line in my FIC
print FIC "$in{'lieu2'}\n";
print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'texte1'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'titre2'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'texte2'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
print FIC "$in{'titre3'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
Thanks for your help
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 17:22:03 GMT
From: drummj@mail.mmc.org (Jeffrey R. Drumm)
Subject: Re: Print from Win32
Message-Id: <3591338c.447878445@news.mmc.org>
[posted and mailed]
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:34:51 +0100, "Marc Mosthav"
<mosthavm@plcman.siemens.co.uk> wrote:
>Does anybody know how I can print to a network printer with perl/Win32? I'm
>using the Gurusamy stuff...
>
>TIA,
>Marc
Assuming the printer is available as an NT share:
open PRINTER, ">//computer/sharename" or die "Yikes! $!\n";
print PRINTER "stuff you want printed\n";
close PRINTER;
You may want to check that the close succeeded; not sure how print failures
work in the NT world.
--
Jeffrey R. Drumm, Systems Integration Specialist
Maine Medical Center - Medical Information Systems Group
drummj@mail.mmc.org
"Broken? Hell no! Uniquely implemented!" - me
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:46:20 -0400
From: Stan Towianski <stowians@ford.com>
To: Hui Tang <hui.tang@tus.ssi1.com>
Subject: Re: string substitution
Message-Id: <35912D5C.7093@ford.com>
Hi,
Someone helped me with this problem once. Here is what I do:
$match = "reg(3)";
$change_to = "xxx";
$line = "reg(3)+bus";
$evalstring = '$newstring =~ ' . "s/$match/$change_to/ig"
;
$newstring = $line;
if ( $dbg_flag )
{
print STDERR "from =$match=\n";
print STDERR "to =$change_to=\n";
print STDERR "EvalString is $evalstring.\n";
}
eval( $evalstring ); # Added quotemeta operator \Q, allow change
to $_
if ( $dbg_flag )
{
print STDERR "fixed newstring =$newstring=\n";
print STDERR "fixed line =$line=\n";
pause();
}
$line = $newstring;
}
print "$newstring";
For the s///ig The /ig just means like i=ignore case, and g I think
replaces all of the found instead of just the first one?
You probably don't have to use $newstring, it is just what I needed.
Hui Tang wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I saw a problem when I do string substitution if the string is a
> variable with meta characters, e.g,
>
> $a="reg(3)";
> $b="xxx";
> $c="reg(3)+bus";
> $c=~s/$a/$b/;
>
> I want $c to be "xxx+bus", but it is not changed. I also tried to escape
> using '\', it doesn't work, either. Anybody got an idea how to do this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Hui
Stan Towianski
stowians@ford.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:48:40 -0400
From: Stan Towianski <stowians@ford.com>
To: Hui Tang <hui.tang@tus.ssi1.com>
Subject: Re: string substitution
Message-Id: <35912DE7.6B74@ford.com>
Hi,
Someone helped me with this problem once. Here is what I do:
$match = "reg(3)";
$change_to = "xxx";
$line = "reg(3)+bus";
$evalstring = '$newstring =~ ' . "s/$match/$change_to/ig"
;
$newstring = $line;
if ( $dbg_flag )
{
print STDERR "from =$match=\n";
print STDERR "to =$change_to=\n";
print STDERR "EvalString is $evalstring.\n";
}
eval( $evalstring ); # Added quotemeta operator \Q, allow change
to $_
if ( $dbg_flag )
{
print STDERR "fixed newstring =$newstring=\n";
print STDERR "fixed line =$line=\n";
pause();
}
$line = $newstring;
}
print "$newstring";
For the s///ig The /ig just means like i=ignore case, and g I think
replaces all of the found instead of just the first one?
You probably don't have to use $newstring, it is just what I needed.
Hui Tang wrote:
>
> Hi, all,
>
> I saw a problem when I do string substitution if the string is a
> variable with meta characters, e.g,
>
> $a="reg(3)";
> $b="xxx";
> $c="reg(3)+bus";
> $c=~s/$a/$b/;
>
> I want $c to be "xxx+bus", but it is not changed. I also tried to escape
> using '\', it doesn't work, either. Anybody got an idea how to do this?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Hui
Stan Towianski
stowians@ford.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:41:04 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <MPG.ffada07634e2e539896be@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[This followup was posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a copy was sent to
the cited author.]
In article <6mr7vu$htv$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>, Tom Christiansen
<tchrist@mox.perl.com> says...
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler) writes:
> :It looks like 'system BLOCK LIST'
>
> As is documented in perlfunc; at least, in my version. :-)
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> Marc.Haber-usenet@gmx.de (Marc Haber) writes:
> :> @cmds = "who";
> :> system { $cmds[0] } @cmds;
> :
> :That seems like a trick. Can anyone explain what this does?
>
> The manpage?
> Money as a motivator is idiotic. Make sure you don't read my manpages
> either. Or use my libraries. If you think I do this stuff for money,
> you are confused. I do it because it's fun.
I have been trying to cool down for an hour, waiting for someone else to
intervene in this "discussion". Now, *you* have defined your
participation here as "fun". It is clear that "fun" for you includes
supercilious sarcastic SADISM.
> As is documented in perlfunc; at least, in my version. :-)
> The manpage?
Where is the smiley on *that* response???
Guy Decoux (decoux@moulon.inra.fr, who has been mentioned recently as
having compassion) sent me the following by private email:
" Extract from the new documentation of 5.004_68 (because apparently Tom
Christiansen don't [sic] want to say it ) : ..."
which explains the UNDOCUMENTED syntax Marc Haber and I asked you about.
I think your supporters here today, such as F. Quednau, should add
Sadistic to their analyses of your responses. It is the only appropriate
way to describe this behavior:
1. Post intriguing syntax that is UNDOCUMENTED.
2. Blow away two inquiries about the syntax by pointing to the manpage.
3. The manpage in question is in 5.004_68.
FOR SHAME!!!
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:25:24 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: Trouble with execution of simple CGI
Message-Id: <6mrcq4$q1@fridge.shore.net>
willwebber@my-dejanews.com wrote:
: #!/usr/bin/perl
: print ("Hello world!\n");
: And I am calling it with:
: <!-- exec cgi="perltest.cgi">
: My questions are: what are the most common pitfalls that will keep the script
: from being called (e.g what is the right syntax to call it from the HTML)?,
You need to find a reference on Server Side Includes. Most books on CGI
cover them, and I'm sure there are online refs as well.
: and what ensures that the output(the printed line) of the script will be
: 'sent' to the HTML doc on the client side?
This is handled by the web server.
--Art
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/calendar.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:56:20 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624115312.14882A-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>
That is not the issue either. It's pretty cool that you don't take this
stuff personally, but when people are told that their questions are so
stupid that they don't even deserve a response is a different story. Why
even say something like that. Why not just leave it alone and not
respond. Rather, these people take the time to insult the "no so
knowledgeable" who are at least trying to learn.
Just because someone is intelligent does not mean they need to be so
arrogant as to be percieved unapproachable.
If they are so intelligent, why can't they just answer the "stupid"
question and get on with their lives?
That's all I am saying. And more then half of Mr. Christiansen's posts
were offensive, and I am sure that the private e-mails he sends to
these peoplem are no less insulting.
Thanks
Olga
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, F.Quednau wrote:
> Olga wrote:
> >
> > Oh really???
> > How is it you calculated that only .5 of the posts were offensive.
>
> Well, I suppose it's down to personal thresholds. After your post I read the
> stated 11 posts, and the 0.5 is the number I came up with. I find that people
> shouldn't be so offended if they get a 'frying pan' straight onto their skull.
> After all, Tom Christiansen is an anonymous entity to me. So even if he would
> offend me, I'd get over it, because who would he be to say something bad about
> me, he doesn't know me at all, so I would not be bothered. And remember, it's
> just words. You can twist and turn them, and you should be very selective about
> which of all those words are allowed to reach your private emotional sphere.
>
> --
> ____________________________________________________________
> Frank Quednau
> http://www.surrey.ac.uk/~me51fq
> ________________________________________________
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 12:11:12 -0500
From: Fred Riley <f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <3591333A.EBB@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>
Joel Coltoff wrote:
> As has been said many times before this newsgroup, unlike some
> others, is not here for handouts. There are many people who will
> kindly show you betters ways to do things once you've demonstrated
> you made some effort yourself. This is not an unreasonable thing.
Ah, right, it all makes sense now. Basically, don't ask for anything
from the group until you've contributed, yes?
This is why there's such a contrast in atmospheres between c.l.p.m and
bit.listserv.toolb-l. On TOOLB-L the dominant ethos is of mutual aid,
whereby people help each other without expecting anything in return
either now or in the future, which I dare say counts as doling out
handouts in your books. Ah well, I'll know better than to post queries
here in the future unless I've contributed responses previously, so
given my current Perl skill level you'll not be hearing from me for
quite a while. Thanks for the enlightenment - it's saved me wasting my
time looking for help on this NG.
Bye
Fred
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:12:01 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624120948.25961A-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>
I buy books to educate myself as well, I believe most people do that, but
I refuse to buy books that demonstrate my support for authors who can not
even properly answer a question, without insults.
It's not that hard to not say anything if all you are planning on saying
is, "you are stupid".
I have no doubt that Mr. Christiansen is intelligent and immaterialistic,
and that's great for him. I just do not see the need to especially take
the time to inform people how stupid they are.
Olga
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Joel Coltoff wrote:
> In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624102453.3077B-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>,
> >despise the name Tom Christiansen and they vouch to never invest any money
> >in his books because he was so insulting and rude to them.
>
> I *BUY* books to educate myself and tend to purchase ones that suit
> my needs best. I care little about who wrote them. I *INVEST* money
> at various times in stocks, bonds, and real estate.
>
> Tom can be abrasive at times. So can I. So can you.
>
> As has been said many times before this newsgroup, unlike some
> others, is not here for handouts. There are many people who will
> kindly show you betters ways to do things once you've demonstrated
> you made some effort yourself. This is not an unreasonable thing.
>
> Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.
> -- W. B. Yeats
>
>
>
> --
> Joel Coltoff
>
> I'd explain it, but there's a lot of math. -- Calvin
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:23:28 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mrcmg$4ko$3@marina.cinenet.net>
Olga (katzman@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
[addressing Tom C.]
: It's great to hear that moeny is not a concern to you, and that you do
: this for fun, but the people you are insulting are truly not having too
: much fun. In fact they are afraid to post any more questions to the
: newgroups because of your ( and some other poeple's insults).
I've never seen Tom insult anyone whose post conformed to rudimentary
rules of netiquette, who had done some basic research in the bundled
documentation, and who presented their own best effort toward solving
their own problem.
People who can't meet those minimal standards *should* be afraid to post.
: I don't think discouraging the public from learning is a very nice thing
: to do. These people are trying, at least, and they seek help from people
: that tend to be a little to arrogan at times.
I'm sorry, but trying isn't sufficient. A six-year-old who incessantly
screamed "What's this word?? What's this word??" during class would be
ejected from the room, despite an evident desire to learn. Learning in a
group forum -- a classroom, a newsgroup -- is a social endeavor, and
certain social rules pertain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:18:41 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mrcdh$li4$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
Oh lovely. That was a stealth CC. I just wasted time
answering a private message that was also posted publicly.
May I insult you now? :-)
--tom
--
During the next two hours, the VAX will be going up and down several
times, often with lin~po_~{po ~poz~ppo\~{ o n~po_^G~{o[po ~y
oodsou>#w4k**
n~po_^G~{ol;lkld;f;g;dd;po\~{o
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:15:46 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mrc82$li4$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
:And more then half of Mr. Christiansen's posts
:were offensive
I call. Go to Deja News. Ask for my user profile.
tchrist@*wisc.edu
tchrist@*convex.com
tchrist@*colorado.edu
tchrist@*perl.com
http://www.dejanews.com/dnquery.xp?QRY=&ST=PS&DBS=1&defaultOp=AND&maxhits=25&format=terse&showsort=score&groups=&authors=tchrist@*perl.com+OR+tchrist@*convex.com+OR+tchrist@*colorado.edu&subjects=&fromdate=&todate=
Read the articles. Then count up. Until then, you are
merely repeating hearsay.
--tom
--
Procedure names should reflect what they do; function names should reflect
what they return. --Rob Pike
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:40:44 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624123542.697F-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>
Oh, ok
and who should get to set the minimum standards, Craig?
You?
People who don't meet the "miminum standard" criteria should still be able
to post. People who exceed this criteria are welcome to ignore the posts
of the "idiots" but no one should have to be insulted just because their
questions seems dumb. When a six year old is screaming "what is this
word, what is this word", the teacher or parent, or the more
intelligent authority figure usually does not respond by saying,
"stupid" or "that doesn't deserve an answer". Sometimes not responding
works very well.
Olga
On 24 Jun 1998, Craig Berry wrote:
> Olga (katzman@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
> [addressing Tom C.]
> : It's great to hear that moeny is not a concern to you, and that you do
> : this for fun, but the people you are insulting are truly not having too
> : much fun. In fact they are afraid to post any more questions to the
> : newgroups because of your ( and some other poeple's insults).
>
> I've never seen Tom insult anyone whose post conformed to rudimentary
> rules of netiquette, who had done some basic research in the bundled
> documentation, and who presented their own best effort toward solving
> their own problem.
>
> People who can't meet those minimal standards *should* be afraid to post.
>
> : I don't think discouraging the public from learning is a very nice thing
> : to do. These people are trying, at least, and they seek help from people
> : that tend to be a little to arrogan at times.
>
> I'm sorry, but trying isn't sufficient. A six-year-old who incessantly
> screamed "What's this word?? What's this word??" during class would be
> ejected from the room, despite an evident desire to learn. Learning in a
> group forum -- a classroom, a newsgroup -- is a social endeavor, and
> certain social rules pertain.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> | Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
> --*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
> | Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
> "Every man and every woman is a star."
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:47:17 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mre35$4ko$6@marina.cinenet.net>
Fred Riley (f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk) wrote:
: Joel Coltoff wrote:
:
: > As has been said many times before this newsgroup, unlike some
: > others, is not here for handouts. There are many people who will
: > kindly show you betters ways to do things once you've demonstrated
: > you made some effort yourself. This is not an unreasonable thing.
:
: Ah, right, it all makes sense now. Basically, don't ask for anything
: from the group until you've contributed, yes?
You're being disingenuous (or perhaps truly missing the point). By
"making some effort yourself," Joel means that you have tried using the
resources available to you to solve the problem about which you are
posting, and to provide sufficient data in your post for others to help
you. It's the difference between
How do I strip leading and trailing whitespace from a string?
and
I read the FAQ about trimming leading and trailing whitespace, and
got that part working, but I need to do it while leaving the
trailing newline (if any) in place. Any ideas on how to do this?
I tried [blah blah blah] but that doesn't work on [foo].
See the difference?
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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