[9365] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2960 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jun 24 13:17:21 1998
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 10:00:32 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 24 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2960
Today's topics:
Re: Array trouble - severe newbie <BHOFFMAN@dsccc.com>
Re: Capturing return code from Ksh script glenn.west@ptsc.slg.eds.com
Re: Flames.... (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Re: Flames.... (Leslie Mikesell)
Re: Have we got a good free Perl manual? <mark@satch.markl.com>
Re: NEwbie question: how do I find string length? (Craig Berry)
Re: Parsing...... <laurence@vhealth.vegnet.com>
Re: Q: About creating user accounts from web logins fgump@my-dejanews.com
Re: system() and security again <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: system() and security again <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
TIP: How to post good questions (I R A Aggie)
Trouble with execution of simple CGI willwebber@my-dejanews.com
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Joel Coltoff)
Re: What a Crappy World <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: What a Crappy World <f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
What module to download a gif? zirconx@my-dejanews.com
Re: Would someone tell me what this means? <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:07:40 -0500
From: BHOFFMAN <BHOFFMAN@dsccc.com>
Subject: Re: Array trouble - severe newbie
Message-Id: <3591244C.F87EEF4B@dsccc.com>
Could you post the part that does the "flat-file database program that
searches a file and prints matches to pre-set search strings in only one
field (of about a dozen)"?
Thanks
nheagy@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> Thank you for taking the time to read this. I have light experience in PASCAL
> and am now trying to learn PERL for CGI scripting. I have managed to write a
> flat-file database program that searches a file and prints matches to pre-set
> search strings in only one field (of about a dozen). I would now like to sort
> the list by one field (city) and then have an on-the-fly menu of cities
> listed at the top that link to anchors for each city. I think I can do most
> of it, but I have no idea how to put the results into an array so that I can
> keep track of the results and print the cities list BEFORE the results. I am
> using arrays to load SHTML header/foot files, and would expect to do somthing
> similar, however I have no idea where to start. The PERL documentation is too
> hard for me to understand.
>
> Basically, how do I print to an array?
>
> Thanks,
> Nathan R Heagy.
>
> -----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
> http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:02:22 GMT
From: glenn.west@ptsc.slg.eds.com
Subject: Re: Capturing return code from Ksh script
Message-Id: <6mr7ud$kvf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <6mkjai$1vf$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
vijay_veeranna@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I have a question about how to capture the return code from a shell
> script invoked from perl. In the example below the shell script load_file.sh
> is invoked from a perl script and I would like to capture the return
> code from load_file.sh which is the LOAD_RESULT. Any suggestion
> on how to do this is appreciated.
[code snipped]
In addition to the other suggestions, you're going to need to have the script
load_file.sh exit with $LOAD_RESULT. Otherwise the perl script is going to
think things worked fine when they may not have.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jun 1998 10:21:17 -0400
From: allbery@kf8nh.apk.net (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH)
Subject: Re: Flames....
Message-Id: <6mj4st$941$1@rushlight.kf8nh.apk.net>
Also sprach Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> (<lt90mrwlyt.fsf@asfast.com>):
+-----
| And furthermore, since there are always new people trying out Perl and
| coming into the group with FAQ's, I don't see what's wrong with being
+--->8
Not to mention the overworked (print) graphic designers who get websites
dumped in their lap by order of the management. (I've seen this happen.)
They might learn about Perl by seeing books on display at the local bookstore,
or the boss may have said "oh, I hear there's this thing called Perl used for
web programming: learn it".
No doubt to the great dismay of some here, Perl isn't only a geek language
any more.
--
brandon s. allbery [os/2][linux][solaris][japh] allbery@kf8nh.apk.net
system administrator [WAY too many hats] allbery@ece.cmu.edu
electrical and computer engineering
carnegie mellon university (bsa@kf8nh is still valid.)
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:45:01 -0500
From: les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell)
Subject: Re: Flames....
Message-Id: <6mraed$e2$1@Mars.mcs.net>
In article <6mphnh$b3a$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>,
Chip Salzenberg <chip@mail.atlantic.net> wrote:
>According to les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell):
>>Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> wrote:
>>>No, the rule is that a questioner should look in the most appropriate
>>>place for their answer. If it's a question about CGI programming, the
>>>docs, FAQs, and newsgroups about that are going to be more appropriate
>>>than a newsgroup about Perl.
>>
>>Does that mean it would be a really bad idea to go the to Perl
>>Conference to learn about CGI programming --- in spite of the
>>fact that the agenda seems to be mostly web-related?
>
>O'Reilly isn't a bunch of volunteers discussing their work/play amongst
>themselves. They're a profit-making entity, albeit one with a slightly
>broader mind and longer view than most. So there is no real comparison.
It's odd that there is such a remarkable similarity in the names
of these O'Reilly shills and the regular people on c.l.p.m. then.
Hmmm, what about the pictures? Maybe it is the posters here
that are the imposters... Can someone who goes to the tutorials
report back on how often the 'read the FAQ' and 'go to the right forum'
phrases are uttered?
Les Mikesell
les@mcs.com
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 12:37:27 -0400
From: Mark Lehrer <mark@satch.markl.com>
Subject: Re: Have we got a good free Perl manual?
Message-Id: <m3k966vjqw.fsf@satch.markl.com>
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
> # Then what is the solution? Don't use Perl? No. Write a good free manual?
> # Yes.
>
> Huh? THERE IS A GOOD FREE PERL MANUAL. Even by the FSF definitions
> of "free" and, I assume, of "manual". It is probably better than
> every other manual, free or proprietary, for any other software
> package of this size.
What is the URL? I have seen three responses now, none with how to
find it. I especially need documentation on how to link in a .a with
the perl executable.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 16:43:46 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: NEwbie question: how do I find string length?
Message-Id: <6mrac2$4ko$1@marina.cinenet.net>
Al Wang (alwang@oculus.lvl.pri.bms.com) wrote:
: I was wondering if there is any builtin function in Perl for returning
: the length of a string. If not, what's the most efficient way to do
: this?
:
: Sorry if this is i the FAQ, but I have no web access at the moment...
What does having web access have to do with anything? The complete Perl
docs are delivered as part of every standard distribution. If you can run
perl without a net connection, then you can read the docs without a net
connection.
Since you know you're looking for a function, you'd use the perlfunc
document. Searching that document for the word 'length' gives the answer
to your question in about two seconds, some thousands of times faster than
posting the question to Usenet and waiting for a reply.
Use the doc. The doc is your friend.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:25:37 +0000
From: Laurence Brockman <laurence@vhealth.vegnet.com>
Subject: Re: Parsing......
Message-Id: <35911A70.716F7190@vhealth.vegnet.com>
check http://www.apache.org/ for the FAQ. This exact question is answered in
the FAQ (Has to do with AddHandler cgi-script .cgi .pl)
Laurence
Brad Jones wrote:
> I know this is probably not the best place to post this and i apologize in
> advance, but I am trying to install some cgi perl scripts. We are using
> Linux Redhat and Apache, when I pull up the page in a browser it gives the
> text not the program, how do I fix this? I can't for the life of me
> remember....
>
> TIA,
> Brad
--
Legal Warning: Do NOT send unsolicited commercial
email to me - consider this as an official notice:
"By US Code Title 47, Sec.227(a)(2)(B), a computer/modem/printer
meets the definition of a telephone fax machine. By
Sec.227(b)(1)(C),
it is UNLAWFUL to send any unsolicited advertisement to such
equipment.
By Sec.227(b)(3)(C), a violation of the aforementioned Section is
PUNISHABLE by action to recover actual monetary loss, or $500,
whichever is greater, for each violation."
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:05:40 GMT
From: fgump@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: Q: About creating user accounts from web logins
Message-Id: <6mr84k$l28$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Please don't treat me like an idiot. I've read everything, FAQ's, USENET
postings, and books. I hate clogged newsgroups just as much as the next
person. This IS my last resort.
If you take the time to READ PAST THE FIRST PARAGRAPH OF MY ORIGINAL POSTING,
you'll see that I'm not asking about how to create password protected
directories, but rather something else more complicated. I was just shedding
a little light on the subject to make it easier to understand. You rashly
misinterpreted the first paragraph. Notice how the first two words are "It
is" and not "Is it".
So, in short, please do not question my discretion as far as posting my
questions. I have not yet recieved any answers in 24 hours, so I assume my
question could be considered pretty much qualified for this forum.
Please excuse the flame, but I know what I'm talking about,
Bret
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980623135648.3227E-100000@user2.teleport.com>,
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 fgump@my-dejanews.com wrote:
>
> > It is possible to create password protected directories in UNIX, so that
> > when HTML pages in those directories are accessed on the web, a login
> > box will appear on the screen. The information is pulled from the
> > .htaccess and .htpasswd files related to that directory.
>
> Sure, it's possible. You could even choose to do some of the programming
> in Perl, although I've heard of people using other languages from time to
> time. :-)
>
> If you have questions about how you would go about implementing this, the
> docs, FAQs, and newsgroups about server programming and other web-related
> issues should be helpful. If you know what to do, but you can't find how
> to do it in Perl, after checking the Perl docs and FAQs please ask here.
>
> Good luck!
>
> --
> Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
> Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
>
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 16:03:10 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <6mr7vu$htv$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler) writes:
:It looks like 'system BLOCK LIST'
As is documented in perlfunc; at least, in my version. :-)
--tom
--
He who hasn't hacked assembly language as a youth has no
heart. He who does so as an adult has no brain.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 16:05:16 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <6mr83s$htv$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Marc.Haber-usenet@gmx.de (Marc Haber) writes:
:> @cmds = "who";
:> system { $cmds[0] } @cmds;
:
:That seems like a trick. Can anyone explain what this does?
The manpage?
--tom
--
:The only reason [not to use] perl is that some sysadmins don't allow software that they didn't pay for.
By all means, let them send me money if it makes them feel better. :-)
--Larry Wall in <1993Dec13.213032.26623@netlabs.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:47:58 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: TIP: How to post good questions
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2406981247580001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
Repost, time..and yes, Olga, there *are* stupid questions.
Date: 09 Nov 1995 02:57:30 GMT
From: mjd@plover.com (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Subject: Re: system() question
There are a lot of reasons, many of which get repeated over and
over again, many of which don't. Some of the reasons you hear a lot
are: Questions are incoherently phrased. Questions have the form `my
code doesn't work' and don't include the code. Questions include the
code, and it's 200 lines long, and comp.lang.perl is not a debugging
service. Nobody knows the answer to the question. The question is so
badly punctuated that nobody can bear to read it. Questions aer
written by a non-native speaker of English and the native speakers who
are trying to understand it can't. (That's a shame, but it does
happen. I often wish that these people would post in their native
languages. I'd love to see more discussion in languages other than
English. Some Dutch guy tried posting all his comp.lang.c articles in
Dutch a few years ago, and all the Americans flamed him. How
humiliating for me!)
Apart from these oft-mentioned reasons are many others that are
not so often discussed, because anyone who tries to bring them up gets
flamed. But it's the truth: I know the reason I don't answer more
questions is because so many of them questions are so damn stupid.
They're stupid in a lot of different ways, but they're still stupid.
I don't want to suggest that that's why your questions go unanswered.
I don't know what you're asking. No doubt the reason your questions
go unanswered is because they're so deep and interesting that nobody
really knows the answer.
The most common stupid question is the one from someone who has
some high-level problem that they need solved. They have an idea that
they'd like to do it in perl, and they don't really know perl. So
instead of learning perl, they post to comp.lang.perl.misc.
Now don't get me wrong. I don't have any problems answering the
questions of someone who's trying to learn perl. I love THOSE
qusetions. But these people don't seem to be asking useful questions
for that.
Today, for example, I saw a question from a guy who wants to get a
list of hostnames out of nslookup. `How do I do that?' he says. And
it's hard to know what to make of that. What does he mean? Does he
not know how to open a pipe? Is his `open' command failing? What's
going on here? I can't give a useful answer without understanding the
problem. Having your `open' fail is a problem. Wanting to list
hostnames is not a problem; it's a desire.
Here are some similar questions that would have made more sense to me:
1. ``I'm a lazy asshole and I can't be bothered to learn to
program myself, but I know if I post here you'll give me
something for free.''
(OK, fair enough. At least I can send him a rate card.)
2. ``I'm trying to use `open' to talk to nslookup, but...
...here's my code; what's wrong?''
(Good question.)
3. ``I know perl has a `system' command for running programs,
but I can't see how to get my commands into nslookup
once I have run it.''
(Good question.)
4. ``I'm trying to use `getprotobynumber' to talk to nslookup...''
(Good question.)
See, I'm not just biting people's heads off, here. #4 is a good
question, because it gives me something to work with. OK, he has a
very weird idea about interprocess communication, but that's
ignorance, and that's what we're here to correct. He doesn't know
about `open'; I can refer him to the manual.
Here's another example: Some guy wants to assemble a list of email
addresses . ``How do I do that?'' he wants to know. Well, duh. Get a
big pad of paper and read news for a couple days and write down all
the addresses you see. Problem solved. What's it doing in
comp.lang.perl?
Oh, you wanted to do it in perl. Well, I guess I'd open a socket
to the NNTP server and send it some XHDR commands for the `From'
lines. But that's not Perl; you could do that in any language. I
could do it in Bourne Shell for you if I'm allowed to use a little
external thingie to handle the socket parts for me. What's it doing
in comp.lang.perl?
Oh, you wanted us to write the program for you? Wait, let me send
you my rate card.
Someone posted yesterday asking how to get the data from a file
where the start and end of the data is marked by keywords. Same thing
going on here. ``Well, here's how you solve your problem: First you
go take an introductory class in programming and learn to write
programs in some language. Then you go to the bookstore and buy this
book by Wall and Schwartz, it's really good. Read the book carefully
and try out the examples. Then if you still have general questions
like `How do I do this' instead of `I thought that this code would do
X but instead it does Y' you hire a professional to write your program
for you. Or you could just skip right to step 3. Want my rate
card?''
The worst stupid questions are the ones that come from people who
have no business asking them. The most perfect example of this that I
could have imagined was in comp.unix.questions a couple of years ago.
Some guy came and asked how you could tell if a file is a hard link.
My jaw flapped open and it's stayed open since then. I couldn't have
been any more stumped if he'd asked why Bodhidharma came from the
West. What do you say to this guy? Do you tell him the truth, that
all files are hard links, that even symbolic links are hard links?
He's not going to understand you; you might as well keep your mouth
shut. Do you tell him the truth, that the answer won't do him any
good because he doesn't know what a hard link is, so why did he bother
asking in the first place? No, that'll just make him mad. I followed
that message for the next couple weeks, and nobody said anything.
What could you say? The guy had no business asking the question and
no use for the answer. Maybe the right answer would have been to cut
off his finger or something. I dunno.
Some questions get ignored because they're boring. Someone asked
today how to compare two variables (I assumme he means the contents of
those variables) to see if they're exactly the same. You've gotta be
in an awfully good mood to take the time to answer that. Maybe
someone will. Maybe I will.
If I answer that one today, maybe he'll be back tomorrow asking
how to check to see if two variables contain different values. Maybe
I won't. What I find incredible is that if you tell these people to
go read the manual and come back in two weeks, you sometimes get
jumped on for not being helpful to beginners. Bah. If everyone told
these people to go read the manual, they'd eventually figure out that
that's what you have to do ,and then I wouldn't have to spend so much
of my life dealing with incompetent programmers.
Some questions are logically nonsensical because the querent
thinks they know more than they do. A lot of these have the form
``How do I use X to accomplish Y?'' There's nothing wrong with this,
except that sometimes X is a chocolate-covered banana and Y is the
integration of European currency systems. I always get stuck on
these, probably because I can't get rid of the idea that the person
really has a good reason for wanting to use X. I know a half-dozen
easy simple ways to accomplish Y, but I can't imagine what X has to do
with it. This is a problem for me in my day job, too. Clients are
always saying to me ``We want to use product X to do multimedia
development on the world-wide web,'' and all I can think is ``Well,
gee, what would you want to go and do that for?'' Sometimes it turns
out that they want to do it because they want to impress the
manufacturers of X, and I don't work on those jobs.
The flip side of this is a questions like ``I want to accomplish
X, but I don't want to use Y. What can I use instead?'' Which,
again, is sometimes reasonable, and then sometimes X is closing a
filehandle and Y is the `close' function.
The questions I like the best are the ones that go like this:
``I want to accomplish X.
I thought that the following code fragment would do it:
...
But instead it does Y.
Why is that?''
This one is also pretty good:
``I want to accomplish X.
I thought I might be able to use facility Y.
But Y doesn't seem like it's quite right,
because of Z.
What should I use instead of Y, or how can I overcome Z?''
When I ignore these, it's usually because I don't know the answer.
There were an awful lot of them today. It makes me very happy.
There you go; a 160-line dissertation on why questions go unanswered.
Now don't let me hear you saying nobody ever answers your questions.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:03:15 GMT
From: willwebber@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Trouble with execution of simple CGI
Message-Id: <6mr803$kvs$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Greetings all. Let me preface this question by saying that I am reading the
book "Learning Perl", and I am in the infancy of doing some CGI work. I
lease server space and everything I attempting to run is on the my rented
space, and I am not doing work with forms. I am trying to execute a simple
'hello world script' ,via an HTML doc that calls it, to begin my learning
process-- the script is a basic two-liner:
#!/usr/bin/perl
print ("Hello world!\n");
And I am calling it with:
<!-- exec cgi="perltest.cgi">
My questions are: what are the most common pitfalls that will keep the script
from being called (e.g what is the right syntax to call it from the HTML)?,
and what ensures that the output(the printed line) of the script will be
'sent' to the HTML doc on the client side? Some of the things I have checked
to see why it's not working are: chmoding the files, using a myriad of
absolute and relative pathnames (including the cgi-bin alias for my domain),
and trying to run the items when they are located in every directory( the
overkill method...). Thanks for helping a perl neophyte along in the learning
process...
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:54:56 +0100
From: "F.Quednau" <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <35912150.70F3DF7E@nortel.co.uk>
Olga wrote:
>
> Oh really???
> How is it you calculated that only .5 of the posts were offensive.
Well, I suppose it's down to personal thresholds. After your post I read the
stated 11 posts, and the 0.5 is the number I came up with. I find that people
shouldn't be so offended if they get a 'frying pan' straight onto their skull.
After all, Tom Christiansen is an anonymous entity to me. So even if he would
offend me, I'd get over it, because who would he be to say something bad about
me, he doesn't know me at all, so I would not be bothered. And remember, it's
just words. You can twist and turn them, and you should be very selective about
which of all those words are allowed to reach your private emotional sphere.
--
____________________________________________________________
Frank Quednau
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/~me51fq
________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 16:15:38 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mr8na$htv$3@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
:How is it you calculated that only .5 of the posts were offensive. I've
:spoken to several different people who over the last few days have come to
:despise the name Tom Christiansen and they vouch to never invest any money
:in his books because he was so insulting and rude to them.
Money as a motivator is idiotic. Make sure you don't read my manpages
either. Or use my libraries. If you think I do this stuff for money,
you are confused. I do it because it's fun.
Of course, you are hurting not just yourself but other people
in this choice. That's not very nice.
--tom
--
No, I'm not going to explain it. If you can't figure it out, you didn't
want to know anyway... :-)
--Larry Wall in <1991Aug7.180856.2854@netlabs.com>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:51:08 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624115043.14197A-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>
I am not saying that money is your only concern.
I am just saying that you are offending many people and I've spoken to
quite a few that just don't appreciate the insulting replies they get from
you.
It's great to hear that moeny is not a concern to you, and that you do
this for fun, but the people you are insulting are truly not having too
much fun. In fact they are afraid to post any more questions to the
newgroups because of your ( and some other poeple's insults).
I don't think discouraging the public from learning is a very nice thing
to do. These people are trying, at least, and they seek help from people
that tend to be a little to arrogan at times.
Thanks
Olga
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Olga Katzman / College of Liberal Arts //
// 509 E. Green St. apt 300 / and Sciences //
// Champaign, IL 61820 / CCSO employee (and proud //
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// http://www.students.uiuc.edu/~katzman //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
On 24 Jun 1998, Tom Christiansen wrote:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> writes:
> :How is it you calculated that only .5 of the posts were offensive. I've
> :spoken to several different people who over the last few days have come to
> :despise the name Tom Christiansen and they vouch to never invest any money
> :in his books because he was so insulting and rude to them.
>
> Money as a motivator is idiotic. Make sure you don't read my manpages
> either. Or use my libraries. If you think I do this stuff for money,
> you are confused. I do it because it's fun.
>
> Of course, you are hurting not just yourself but other people
> in this choice. That's not very nice.
>
> --tom
> --
> No, I'm not going to explain it. If you can't figure it out, you didn't
> want to know anyway... :-)
> --Larry Wall in <1991Aug7.180856.2854@netlabs.com>
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 16:47:14 GMT
From: joel@wmi0.wmi.com (Joel Coltoff)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mraho$mk6@netaxs.com>
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624102453.3077B-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>,
>despise the name Tom Christiansen and they vouch to never invest any money
>in his books because he was so insulting and rude to them.
I *BUY* books to educate myself and tend to purchase ones that suit
my needs best. I care little about who wrote them. I *INVEST* money
at various times in stocks, bonds, and real estate.
Tom can be abrasive at times. So can I. So can you.
As has been said many times before this newsgroup, unlike some
others, is not here for handouts. There are many people who will
kindly show you betters ways to do things once you've demonstrated
you made some effort yourself. This is not an unreasonable thing.
Education is not the filling of a pail, but the lighting of a fire.
-- W. B. Yeats
--
Joel Coltoff
I'd explain it, but there's a lot of math. -- Calvin
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 15:56:23 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mr7j7$pbu@fridge.shore.net>
Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
: In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624093825.25068A-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>,
: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
: # So I guess what I am trying to say is, wouldn't it be nice if when people
: # had nothing good to say and they couldn't help someone, they just wouldn't
: # say anything? I think so.
: I don't. I would rather go down fighting than just abandon ship.
And by insulting newbies you are fighting for what, exactly? Your right to
insult people?
--Art
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/calendar.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:33:03 -0500
From: Fred Riley <f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <35912A5B.1E9@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>
Olga wrote:
>
> You know,
> I was just browsing this newsgroup and I noticed something that I would
> like to share with you all. Why is it that once a person becomes
> knowledgeable in a subject they have to make everyone else around them
> feel like shit.
Sadly, from my brief acquaintance with this NG, I have to agree with
Olga. I'm a regular contributor to the Toolbook listserv (mirrored as
bit.listserv.toolb-l) and the difference in atmosphere between there and
here is marked. On TOOLB-L we get lots of repeat questions, but no-one,
and I mean no-one, ever says RTFM or "read the goddam FAQ" to newbies.
We try to be as welcoming and helpful as possible, as we were all
newbies once and only became decent Toolbook programmers after posting
lots of 'stupid questions' and being helped by regulars.
At least I've not been flamed for posting here - the only response to my
queries has been deafening silence - although I dare say I'll get it in
the neck for this contribution. However, the distinct first impression I
get from here is of a group of highly-skilled techies who don't want to
be bothered by newbies, but I'll keep reading the group and hope that my
first impression is wrong.
Cheers
Fred
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:36:06 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2406981236060001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <6mr73l$2tt@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, gebis@albrecht.ecn.purdue.edu
(Michael J Gebis) wrote:
+ pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
+ }I don't. I would rather go down fighting than just abandon ship.
+ Ultimately, this is the difference that divides this group. Half the
+ people see it as "going down fighting," while the other half see it as
+ "going down whining."
You're opening the newbie helpdesk when?
James
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:41:39 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2406981241390001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624093825.25068A-100000@ux5.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
+ These newsgroups are made for discussion purposes, which includes asking,
+ somtimes not the most intelligent, questions. But the people asking those
+ questions arent' doing it because they want to be insulted, but merely
+ because they want to learn.
You're right, Olga, it is a Crappy World.
Its a crappy world, when one writes several hundred pages of documentation,
and answers to Frequently Asked Questions, bundled with perl and available
to every person running perl, and the people who would most benefit from
using it either can't, or frequently *won't* use it.
Yep, that's pretty crappy.
James
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:58:33 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624115713.14882B-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>
I agree with you, Mr. Riley,
But if these techies don't want to help the newbies, no one is making
them.
They can merely ignore those posts which they find insult their
intelligence and move on to the next one.
Olga
On 24 Jun 1998, Fred Riley wrote:
> Olga wrote:
> >
> > You know,
> > I was just browsing this newsgroup and I noticed something that I would
> > like to share with you all. Why is it that once a person becomes
> > knowledgeable in a subject they have to make everyone else around them
> > feel like shit.
>
> Sadly, from my brief acquaintance with this NG, I have to agree with
> Olga. I'm a regular contributor to the Toolbook listserv (mirrored as
> bit.listserv.toolb-l) and the difference in atmosphere between there and
> here is marked. On TOOLB-L we get lots of repeat questions, but no-one,
> and I mean no-one, ever says RTFM or "read the goddam FAQ" to newbies.
> We try to be as welcoming and helpful as possible, as we were all
> newbies once and only became decent Toolbook programmers after posting
> lots of 'stupid questions' and being helped by regulars.
>
> At least I've not been flamed for posting here - the only response to my
> queries has been deafening silence - although I dare say I'll get it in
> the neck for this contribution. However, the distinct first impression I
> get from here is of a group of highly-skilled techies who don't want to
> be bothered by newbies, but I'll keep reading the group and hope that my
> first impression is wrong.
>
> Cheers
>
> Fred
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:58:44 GMT
From: zirconx@my-dejanews.com
Subject: What module to download a gif?
Message-Id: <6mr7nk$k9r$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Hello. I have a need to download (but via http) a few
gif files every couple of minutes. I've looked over the CPAN
site, and I am unsure what to use. libwww wants a lot of other
modules to be installed, and I looked at them, it doesn't look
like they will retreive a gif. libnet does not support http transfers.
Can someone point me in the right direction? I just need a simple
module to retreive some gif files every couple of minutes. TIA
for any help.
Ryan
(please respond via email)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 16:17:13 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Would someone tell me what this means?
Message-Id: <6mr8q9$htv$4@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
rbowen@databeam.com writes:
:For the record, the code is from wwwboard by Matt Wright, which is in
:use on hundreds of web sites around the world. I was just looking at the
:code the other day, wondering if I had the time to clean up some of this
:stuff, since I am running the thing myself a few places.
*NEVER* run anything written by that boy.
--tom
--
Drive defensively. Buy a tank.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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