[8117] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1735 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Jan 26 20:07:33 1998
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 17:00:22 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 26 Jan 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 1735
Today's topics:
Re: `dir`command in IIS3.0 gives no output <peterson@cns.uni.edu>
Re: a perl question (Tad McClellan)
Re: Browser Identification? <rpsavage@ozemail.com.au>
Re: BUG in string pattern match (brian d foy)
Re: CGI.pm and server errors <sanjay@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Re: Checking for a http RELOAD with perl (brian d foy)
Re: Creating simlink? (brian d foy)
Re: Creating simlink? (Chip Salzenberg)
Link error on winnt 4.0 pneuma_66@yahoo.com
Re: Localising $. (Neil Briscoe)
Re: Multpule responce regexp substation <*@qz.to>
passing arguments to perl/CGI?? <amosrf@idt.net>
Perl 5.004_04 open with pipe bug on Solaris? (Ric Steinberger)
Re: Perl 5.004_04 open with pipe bug on Solaris? (Chip Salzenberg)
Re: Perl Source Obfuscator (Tad McClellan)
Re: Reg-ex problem (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH; to reply, change "void" to "kf8nh")
Searching using perl <kjt111@hotmail.com>
Sorting & Archiving files... (Jason Ingham)
ssh <media@organizedmedia.com>
Re: Survival Of perl (brian d foy)
Re: Survival Of perl (Andrew Williams)
Re: Survival Of perl <zenin@best.com>
Re: Survival Of perl <zenin@best.com>
Re: Survival Of perl <zenin@best.com>
Re: Survival Of perl (Tad McClellan)
Re: Text::ParseWords vs. Split <ebohlman@netcom.com>
WIN32 Eventlog module <lipscomba@hsn.net>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:57:49 -0600
From: Kerry Peterson <peterson@cns.uni.edu>
Subject: Re: `dir`command in IIS3.0 gives no output
Message-Id: <34CD14ED.D8EE7C4D@cns.uni.edu>
Thanks everyone for the advice. What finally seems to be working is adapted
from Bryan Wilkinson's suggestion which was as follows:
opendir(DIR,$directory_name);
$ls = join("\n",readdir(DIR));
closedir(DIR);
Unfortunately, it was unable to find the directory $directory_name for some
reason which is not clear to me. If anyone knows why, please let me know.
So what DID work was:
chdir($basedir);
opendir(DIR,".") || die "can't read file (or this message over your
browser, either) $!";
$ls = join("\n",readdir(DIR));
closedir(DIR);
print "$ls\n";
Again, thanks! -- KP
>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:21:07 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: a perl question
Message-Id: <3p5ja6.ntf.ln@localhost>
Syed Babar (syed.babar@amd.com) wrote:
: I have a perl question. "lsfstop" utillity close the
: host temporarily and creates a log file under /proj/lsf/status.
: the file name is "hostname.username.close". and it ask and logs
: the reason for closing it. My script should close the host
: and then log the reason. but for some reason it close it but doesn't
: log the reason. can any one guide me. part of my script is like this
: #!/usr/local/bin/perl5
You should *always* use the -w switch.
ALWAYS.
Really.
: $lsfcmd="/proj/lsf/scripts/lsfstop";
: open(LSFSTOP, "|$lsfcmd ultrasrvr128 babar ")
: || die ("failed to checkin\n ");
If the die() gets executed it will NOT be because lsfstop failed!
See this Frequently Asked Question:
"Why doesn't open() return an error when a pipe open fails?"
: Can you please suggest me something?.
Yes I can suggest that you quit **doubling** the resources required
for your electronic communications.
Twice the bandwidth. Gone.
Twice the disk space on thousands of computers around the World. Gone.
All for no added communication value.
Grievous waste of limited resources there.
HTML is for the WWW.
comp.lang.perl.misc is Usenet, not the WWW.
Please configure your "newsreader" to leave out the HTML crap.
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:59:44 +1000
From: Ron Savage <rpsavage@ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Re: Browser Identification?
Message-Id: <34CD2370.4110@ozemail.com.au>
[snip]
> >> I am writing a Perl script to do browser identification, does anyone[snip]
> you might also wander over to BrowserWatch [1].
>
> [1] <URL:http://browserwatch.internet.com>[snip]
Or:
http://www.gsb.georgetown.edu/dept/gsbtc/waehner/browser/
--
Cheers,
Ron Savage
Office: savage.ron.rs@bhp.com.au
Home (preferred): rpsavage@ozemail.com.au
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:48:01 -0500
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: BUG in string pattern match
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2601981848010001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <34CD04D4.7B10@nortel.ca>, Brent Webster <webster@nortel.ca> posted:
> if ($aString =~ m?/CHECKEDOUT$?) { # test#1: fails on 2nd
>pass
that's not what you think it is. see the perlop man page for the
details.
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
has yet to read about a bug in a post marked BUG.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:09:04 -0500
From: Sanjay Vohra <sanjay@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: CGI.pm and server errors
Message-Id: <34CD1790.B0C89371@cis.ohio-state.edu>
brian d foy wrote:
>
> In article <34CD05D8.E4E47C21@cis.ohio-state.edu>, Sanjay Vohra <sanjay@cis.ohio-state.edu> posted:
>
> >#!/n/umble/0/sanjay/perl5.004
> >
> >use CGI ':standard';
> >
> >BEGIN{
> > push @INC ,('/n/state/1/cue/sanjay/perl5/lib/CGI.pm-2.37018');
> >}
>
> >and this is the error that i am getting
>
> >-----------------------------------
> >% ~cue/sanjay/perl5/bin/perl5.004 script1.cgi < /dev/null
> >(offline mode: enter name=value pairs on standard input)
> >Content-type: text/html
> >
> >Undefined subroutine CGI::isa
> >-----------------------------------
>
> i'm curious how you installed this module - did you follow the
> procedure in the README?
>
> --
> brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
> CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
> Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
yes i am sure i followed the stuff in the readme
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:17:03 -0500
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Checking for a http RELOAD with perl
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2601981817030001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <6aiv8e$jvv$1@ns2.adult-host.net>, admin@net-ops.net (G. E. Terry) posted:
>Does anyone know how I might check to see if a person reloaded a page or if it
>was a new connection via a perl script?
a reload is a new connection. perhaps you meant soemthing else?
a "new connection via a Perl script" might have a user-agent with "LWP" in
it somewhere. but that isn't reliable if the script changed the user-agent
string, which is trivial to do.
perhaps you wanted to look for conditional GETs? details are in the
HTTP specification which you can find through the CGI Meta FAQ.
however, those are questions for the group down the hall:
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:18:55 -0500
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Creating simlink?
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2601981818550001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <885852426.1562443788@dejanews.com>, skulk@wam.umd.edu posted:
>Here's what I am having problems doing...i need to create a simlink in
how about the symlink() built-in function?
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:08:10 GMT
From: chip@mail.atlantic.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Creating simlink?
Message-Id: <6aj53g$d8r$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>
According to skulk@wam.umd.edu:
>Here's what I am having problems doing...i need to create a simlink in
>my code. how do i do that?
I suggest you read perlfunc.pod and pay special attention to the
operator named ... wait for it! ... "symlink".
--
Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <chip@pobox.com>
-> Ask me about Perl training and consulting <-
"We can shower it with neutrons."
"Or we can do the Neutron Dance!" // MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:43:27 -0600
From: pneuma_66@yahoo.com
Subject: Link error on winnt 4.0
Message-Id: <6aj736$gus$1@nnrp2.dejanews.com>
Hi, I was trying to compile perl version 5.004_04 on a nt 4.0 system with bcc5
and when I run dmake it runs fine up until it asksfor the odbccp32.lib.
Borland doesnt come with the odbccp32 library so I just commented that line
out of the makefile. Then it runs fine for a while but I get this link error:
tlink32 -Tpe -ap -Lc:\bc5\lib \
@C:\WINDOWS\TEMP\mk000001
Turbo Link Version 1.6.71.0 Copyright (c) 1993,1996 Borland
International
Error: Unresolved external '__unlink' referenced from module win32.c
DMAKE.EXE: Error code 129, while making '..\miniperl.exe'
DMAKE.EXE: '..\miniperl.exe' removed.
I looked through the sources to no avail, can anyone help me with this.
Thanks in advance
chris
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 23:33:10 GMT
From: neilb@zetnet.co.uk (Neil Briscoe)
Subject: Re: Localising $.
Message-Id: <memo.19980126233309.26029A@skep.compulink.co.uk.cix.co.uk>
In article <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126123331.27056d-100000@user2.teleport.com>,
rootbeer@teleport.com (Tom Phoenix) wrote:
> On 26 Jan 1998, Neil Briscoe wrote:
>
> > open(KEYFILE, $file);
>
> Even when your script is "just an example" (and perhaps especially in
> that
> case!) you should _always_ check the return value after opening a file.
> Thanks!
Damn damn damn - I knew I should have written that disclaimer. My full
code always checks for return values.
Its always either :-
open(FOO, "bar") || die "Horribly: $!\n";
or
if (!open(FOO, "bar")) {
warn "It didna work: $!\n;
next ATTEMPT;
}
And yes, to the earlier poster, I could run it and test it now, but I
thought I'd be foolish enough to ask before I got into a load of
debugging.
Obviously a foolish mistake to make.
Thanks, really
NSB
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 00:18:58 GMT
From: Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to>
Subject: Re: Multpule responce regexp substation
Message-Id: <qz$9801261905@qz.little-neck.ny.us>
? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote:
> What I would like is if given a regexp sub like s/b/l/ and a string bobby
> I would get an array with (bobby,lobby,bolby,lolby...,lolly). Is there
> any module/techneek/ect that I can use. Currently I am splitting the
> string into an array and manuly doing the work.
Psuedocode:
sub list {
my $split = shift;
my $join = shift;
my $source= shift;
my @parts = split(/$split/, $source);
for (my $i = 0; $i < $#parts; $i++) {
my $binary = unpack($something, $i); # turn $i in to a binary number
$binary =~ tr/01/$split$join/;
my @binary = split(/./, $binary);
# insert nifty join routine here
}
Elijah
------
would post in more detail, if he were not hurried
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:30:02 -0500
From: Amos <amosrf@idt.net>
Subject: passing arguments to perl/CGI??
Message-Id: <34CD1C79.111A2D0A@idt.net>
I'm very new at Perl, so this is probably absurdly simple. I'm trying to
run a java cgi program invoked by a simple perl script. I need to read
all the data from a form into a single variable which I then want to
pass to the java program to be dealt with. As I understand it, the
server passes all the key/value pairs to the script as standard input. I
just want to read the whole thing, untouched into a string variable to
pass to java. I tried:
$a = <STDIN>;
but I get an error in the browser. I think maybe its hanging when it
gets to the end, returning null or something, I don't know. Is there a
simple way to get the whole kaboodle into $a ?
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 22:44:02 GMT
From: ric@isl.sri.com (Ric Steinberger)
Subject: Perl 5.004_04 open with pipe bug on Solaris?
Message-Id: <6aj3ji$8o6$1@unix.sri.com>
This code doesn't execute properly on Solaris 2.5, 2.6:
open(FILE, "/usr/sbin/showmount -a 2 >&1 | ")
After a few seconds, one sees:
showmount: 2: RPC: Rpcbind failure - RPC: Timed out
Take away the "2 >&1" and it works fine. Can anyone please
explain to me why this is so. I've used the 2 >&1 frequently
in perl along with the pipe and had no problems. Is this
some timing problem... Please cc: any replies to ric@sri.com.
Thanks in advance!
--
Ric Steinberger Email: ric@sri.com
SRI Consulting Phone: 650.859.4300
333 Ravenswood Ave AH301 Pager: 800.211.4955 (alpha) 888.495.6627 (num)
Menlo Park CA 94025 FAX: 650.859.2986
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:13:21 GMT
From: chip@mail.atlantic.net (Chip Salzenberg)
Subject: Re: Perl 5.004_04 open with pipe bug on Solaris?
Message-Id: <6aj5ds$d9l$1@cyprus.atlantic.net>
According to ric@isl.sri.com (Ric Steinberger):
>open(FILE, "/usr/sbin/showmount -a 2 >&1 | ")
This isn't a Perl problem, but: There should be no space between the
"2" and the ">". Next time, please try out command lines like this
from the shell prompt before assuming that Perl is involved.
--
Chip Salzenberg - a.k.a. - <chip@pobox.com>
-> Ask me about Perl training and consulting <-
"We can shower it with neutrons."
"Or we can do the Neutron Dance!" // MST3K
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 17:07:28 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Perl Source Obfuscator
Message-Id: <gv4ja6.esf.ln@localhost>
Nick (nmarino@home.com) wrote:
: I have no idea what you're talking about.
That is what obfuscating *is*.
You wanna know what he's talking about. Don't you?
Too bad.
Eli has decided to share only the binary (below).
He's hoarding the source code.
Surely he'll explain it after you send in your registration fee.
What's good for the goose is good for the gander ;-)
Obfuscating is less fun when you're on the receiving end...
: Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to> wrote in message ...
: >From RFC 1925:
: > With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is
: > not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they
: > are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them
: > as they fly overhead.
: >
: >I think it apt here.
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 09:51:40 -0500
From: bsa@void.apk.net (Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH; to reply, change "void" to "kf8nh")
Subject: Re: Reg-ex problem
Message-Id: <34cca6b2$3$ofn$mr2ice@speaker>
In <34CB80CF.7C22@wco.com>, on 01/25/98 at 10:13 AM,
Steve Smith <steves@wco.com> said:
+-----
| $a =~ s!\s*/\*[^(/\*)]*\*/\s*!!g;
+--->8
[] matches single characters, so the expression
[^(/\*)]
matches any character except "(", "/", "*", and ")".
s|\s*/\*(?:[^*]*\*+(?!/))*[^*]*\*+\/\s*||g
is more like what you want (and somewhat more optimal).
Are you sure you want to eat all spaces around a comment, though? The output
is "1 1 2 3 4hello.".
--
use 5.004;sub AUTOLOAD{print$_{$_.++$x{$_}}}sub new{my%x;%_=map{++$a%2?$_.++$x{
$_}:$_}split(//,pack('N*',unpack('w*',unpack('u*','M@H*HP\'2"@\C`88+SE/!EA(F!'.
"A'6\$LZV0+(3;C9QRA9NAPG2&D\\G(88:KL=A0\n4AN.5W\"\"&\\[W>;H>3S>0\@A\\N\@PB\$`")
)));bless{}}$b=(new main);map{$b->_}split(//,' Brandon S. Allbery KF8NH') # :-)
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 17:47:13 +600
From: "Kevin Tonkin" <kjt111@hotmail.com>
Subject: Searching using perl
Message-Id: <01bd2ab5$16a37460$8b9cc4ce@hsegal.dnvr.uswest.net>
Hi...can someone help?
How do I go about using perl to search a database file which is arranged
like so:
var1|var2|var3 etc ?
If I want to search the first variable, for example, how would I do this?
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 98 23:29:39 GMT
From: jingham@crimsonweb.com (Jason Ingham)
Subject: Sorting & Archiving files...
Message-Id: <34cd1c63.0@news.crimsonweb.com>
I need a program to thrash through a load (60,000+) of files in a single
directory, sort them by date, and then build an archive of a certain size
(3.85GB) of the oldest files in another directory for eventual backup to tape.
If I could include time stamps at various points to track the execution speed
that would be great too.
Anyone have any clues for me? Thanks!
~Jason.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:57:40 -0600
From: Thomas Lockney <media@organizedmedia.com>
Subject: ssh
Message-Id: <34CD14E4.621B8107@organizedmedia.com>
I'm looking for a module or any information pertaining to ssh within
perl. I need to replicate a directory tree across a systems, one of
which is using ssh. I don't want to have to make system calls to scp
each time I find a file needing to be copied. Anyone have any experience
with this?
Thanks
Thomas Lockney
Technical Admin
Web Commerce Group, Tivoli Systems, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:08:46 -0500
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2601981808460001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <34ce01f1.22869523@news.halcyon.com>, FHeasley@chemistry.com (Frank) posted:
>> Maybe so, maybe not. Either way I'd still say that web application
>> programming is still a vary small piece of the bulk of Perl code
>> being developed.
>>
>The cutting edge is a very small part of the knife, but it's the place
>where the action is. The web is the cutting edge for perl.
hardly... maybe *you* just don't use it for anything else. most of the
people i know using Perl are not using it for the web, despite my
recent (and prolific) involvement in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi
and my particiaption in the local Perl user group. but, of course, that
is only anecdotal.
>I'm a student of the language, and thus I'll readily admit to
>ignorance.
although you'll pontificate on the niche of Perl? perhaps you would
like to read the interview with Larry Wall in the current Dr. Dobbs.
Larry gives a peek of this thoughts on ecological niches, especially
how Perl went from being pigeonholed as a sysadmin tool to a web
tool.
Perl is a very adaptable beast. it doesn't rely on a particular
niche for survival.
>BUT unless it remains TOP NOTCH with regard to the alternatives, the
>monster corporations will stomp on it and we'll all be eating crap in
>the bargain.
this seems to belong to the Chicago School of Economics, and that's
just not the way it is in this business. however, that debate has
nothing to do with Perl, so it belongs elsewhere.
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:24:01 GMT
From: andrew@edoc.com (Andrew Williams)
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <34d21a1b.358200031@news.clark.net>
>
>>
>> In order for perl to survive, it must continue to grow. And in order
>> to grow, it must continue to meet the needs of established and new
>> users. For the time being, perl is successful in that regard.
>> However, there are powerful corporations who have vested interests in
>> competitive languages for web interfacing, and they will continue to
>> enhance those languages. If perl remains competitive with them, then
>> it will survive. If not, it will be replaced.
Why excatly does perl have to "compete" with other languages?
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 23:43:14 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@best.com>
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <885858408.526012@thrush.omix.com>
[posted & mailed]
Ugh, PEOPLE! It's not that hard! When you email a carbon copy of
a followup to the author, MAKE A NOTE OF IT AT LEAST IN THE EMAIL!
-See the top of this post of a simple cut n' paste example...
It's VARY annoying to have to reply TWICE because one reads email
first and hasn't gotton the newsgroup posting yet...
Frank <FHeasley@chemistry.com> wrote:
>BIG snip<
And remember to cut down your quoting to only a line or two whenever
possible! It's REALLY not that hard! -At least not in vi or emacs,
I don't know about those weak Windoz/DOS editors... <ducking> :-)
: The cutting edge is a very small part of the knife, but it's the place
: where the action is.
This may well be, however it rarely, if ever decides the long term
fate of established practices.
: The web is the cutting edge for perl.
Hehehe....hold on, hold on...I need to stop laughing first...
:-) <-- for the humor impaired
>Another BIG snip...please cut your quoting down!<
: I'm a student of the language, and thus I'll readily admit to
: ignorance.
As do I, however while I do know the vast majority of the language
and many of it's available libraries in detail I do try to state
my opinions not as fact when I think the phrasing I use might imply
otherwise. This doesn't always work, but it's what I try.
: As to being a fool, I've devoted considerable energy in my career
: toward learning FORTRAN,
Hmm...
: BASIC,
Blgh...
: FORTH,
Blgh...
: PASACAL
Hmm....
: and dBase,
Blgh...
: and currently PERL,
Yah!
:-)
: but the current demand (y2k notwithstanding) appears
: to be c++,
Hmm...
: and visual basic.
Blgh...
:-)
: > Hundreds of the pure Perl built modules will work out of the
: > box on Win32 systems,
>snip<
: So?
You made remarks to the idea that modules are "useless" to Perl
users on Win32 systems. My point is that this notion is so
incorrect that to even state it is nearly to be considered pure
flame bait.
>snip<
: > First off, what the hell do vi and emacs have to do with perl???
: They were recommended in a previous thread as being particularly
: useful for editing PERL. Personally, I prefer the DOS editor.
And that's your choice. The fact remains that for many thousands
of people editing Perl code on all system types (Win32 as well as
Unix) vi and emacs are the editors of choice, and this is why they
are suggested when people ask "What is a good editor for programming
in Perl".
It still has nothing (or at least vary little) to do with Perl.
>Yet another BIG snip....blgh...<
: Yep, been to CPAN many xxx. Also been to Microsoft. Guess who's got
: more money?
Who's got more money, FSF or the guys at Sun/SGI/DEC/etc? Now tell
me why Gcc still blows SparcWorks and the rest out of the water? Or
why MiniSQL is many times faster then Oracle? Why FreeBSD and Linux
can do on one 486 what NT needs a rack of P5/200 boxes to do?
It's the hole theory. Just because one person can dig a given hole in
10 minutes, does not in any way meen that 10 people can dig the same
given hole in 1 minute.
>MORE BIG SNIPS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!<
: It's gotten to the point that no one will buy anything unless
: it's crammed down their throats with huge marketing campagins, and it
: doesn't matter how good, or lousy, the product may be.
You have a wonderful talent for stating the obvious. :-)
: It's wrong, and it stinks, but it's how things ARE.
Have you been on the 'Net long? Have you looked in detail at the
larger free software projects? The world is not as tainted as
it might seem, and not all software companies are like this. Even
Netscape just announced that they are going to be releasing the
source code to Communicator v5 free with vary few license
restrictions to the 'Net.
>snip<
: > The same argument can be said for EVERYTHING in the world, not even
: > just the computer world.
: And that is the power of the statement: it is a universal truth, and
: one that must not be ignored.
You speak like a VP. :-)
: In summary for this and the previous reply, and one I received
: privately, folks, PERL is a very good product, with lots of potential,
: and current usefulness across several platforms.
Hey, we agree! :-)
: BUT unless it remains TOP NOTCH with regard to the alternatives, the
: monster corporations will stomp on it and we'll all be eating crap in
: the bargain.
And I say that Perl is, and has always been advancing to meet any
challenge that it has, and may need to face. To argue otherwise
without contributing to the effort either with input in the p5p
list or offering your own reusable code modules on CPAN is simply
selfish.
You also have yet to offer a sigle example of how Perl is not
staying "TOP NOTCH with regard to the alternatives". You also seem
to be viewing this as some kind of war. It really isn't nor should
it be. If a tool comes along that fulfills my requirements better
then Perl, I'll be the first one to jump for it. Wouldn't you? I'd
LOVE to run WinNT too, if it actually was a better system then my
current FreeBSD workstation. But for now I can't stand NT because
it completely fails to fulfill my requirements and therefor I
continue to use FreeBSD despite the fact that I do find fault with
parts of it.
--
-Zenin
zenin@best.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 00:04:24 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@best.com>
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <885859677.235475@thrush.omix.com>
Frank <FHeasley@chemistry.com> wrote:
: On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 11:15:22 -0600, Cameron Dorey <camerond@mail.uca.edu> wrote:
>MORE BIG SNIPS...<
: I'm referring to any module which will not self extract and install in
: a windows environment.
I'm sorry if we failed to provide you a pretty little GUI interface
in order to install a brain dead easy to install Perl module...
Please feel free to return the complete package and I'll send you
a rebate check for the full cost of the module.
: There are far to many of them, and it's
: frustrating to download them from CPAN only to find that they are
: unusable.
Buy a snap shot CPAN CD and/or actually READ the readme file that
is available next to almost every module on CPAN...
Again, I'm sorry that you have chosen a broken OS, however this is
not our fault. You are of course, fully welcome to provide patchs
to any module you find to allow it to work under the OS of your
choice. There are many modules that will not work on this machine
or that machine. This is not just an Win32 problem.
Maybe I should complain that none of the Win32::* modules will work
on my FreeBSD machine...and why hasn't anyone ported Access to
FreeBSD!!!
: Plus, if you can get them to work on your local machine,
: you still have the additional problem of getting them installed on
: your ISP's system - not always an easy thing to accomplish.
FAQ...read it sometime. "man perlfaq8" and search for "How do
I keep my own library directory"... This is REALLY not that hard...
>SNIP<
: All well and good. I didn't say they were useless, only that there is
: considerable room for improvement.
Frank <FHeasley@chemistry.com> wrote in article
<34ce7ae0.10306401@news.halcyon.com>, "However, most new users
are windows based, and are writing programs in dos windows under
windows 95. To them, perl modules are often useless."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hmm....
>MORE BIG SNIPS...CUT YOUR QUOTES DOWN ALREAY!<
: And I'm not characterizing all windows users as lazy.
I beg to differ, but that's best left for another thread. :-)
: But, when it comes to implementing a desired function, most folks take
: the most direct route (e.g. the "path of least resistance"). If you
: want them to take your path, you lower the resistance.
And CPAN doesn't do this? If there is a feature you'd like to
see, feel free to send a patch to the p5p list. Thanks!
>snip<
: Absolutely correct: it's a truism that is applicable in many areas,
: and it applies powerfully here.
I still would like to see a single example of how this is currently
not being done within the Perl development community...got one?
--
-Zenin
zenin@best.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 00:08:17 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@best.com>
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <885859911.353673@thrush.omix.com>
Chip Salzenberg <chip@mail.atlantic.net> wrote:
: Bollocks. The web is lame. The web is boring. The web is nothing
: more or less than producing formatted text on demand.
:
: *yawn*
I have never heard such a more correct statement before about
the Web. I agree 100%.
: The cutting edge is Perl compilation and distributed safe Perl code
: and better regexes and better performance and more reliability and
: faster bug fixes and better support and modules and more modules and
: MORE MODULES to do all kinds of neat stuff.
How did you manage to forget thread support?!?!? :^)
: The web could die tomorrow and Perl would live on, hardly noticing.
Absolutely.
--
-Zenin
zenin@best.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:59:36 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <og4ja6.qrf.ln@localhost>
Frank (FHeasley@chemistry.com) wrote:
: On 26 Jan 1998 20:33:07 GMT, Zenin <zenin@best.com> wrote:
: >Frank <FHeasley@chemistry.com> wrote:
[snip]
: >: In fact, that is probably where most of the new
: >: users are coming from.
: >
: > Maybe so, maybe not. Either way I'd still say that web application
: > programming is still a vary small piece of the bulk of Perl code
: > being developed.
: >
: The cutting edge is a very small part of the knife, but it's the place
: where the action is. The web is the cutting edge for perl.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I thought I stumbled into rec.humor.funny there for a minute.
I've seen a lot of absurd stuff in c.l.p.m, but this one may
become a Classic.
CGI scripting is just a SMOP (Simple Matter Of Programming), it's
pretty straightforward (ie. easy) to write.
What new and exciting (cutting edge) web programming things are
you referring to anyway?
Pumping out some HTML formatted text is "cutting" with a chip of flint...
: >: It's also a very useful language for dealing with text on unix based systems
It's also a very useful language for dealing with text on many non-unix
based systems.
: >: However, most new users are windows based, and are writing programs in
: >: dos windows under windows 95.
: >
: > Hmm, and you get your data from where, exactly..? It's not from
: > this news group I assure you...
: >
: >: To them, perl modules are often useless.
: >
: > Woops! Now you've gone and made a fool of yourself. I warned you
: > about that, didn't I...?
<g>
: I'm a student of the language, and thus I'll readily admit to
: ignorance.
: As to being a fool, I've devoted considerable energy in my career
: toward learning FORTRAN, BASIC, FORTH, PASACAL and dBase, and
: currently PERL, but the current demand (y2k notwithstanding) appears
: to be c++, and visual basic. So perhaps I'm a fool as well. Am I
: foolish to be devoting energy and time to PERL?
<sarcasm>
Yes.
All PoBs should stick to programming in Visual Basic.
</sarcasm>
: > Hundreds of the pure Perl built modules will work out of the
: > box on Win32 systems, and many of the ones that use linked C code
: > not only will compile and run fine under Win32 they oftin are also
: > available in precompiled packages for users without a compiler and
: > are too lazy to install the Cygnus ported tools.
: So?
So, "To them, perl modules are often useless" seems to be somewhat
less than accurate (remember saying that?).
They can install hundreds of 'em easily.
: Yep, been to CPAN many xxx. Also been to Microsoft. Guess who's got
: more money?
Devil worship has its rewards...
: In summary for this and the previous reply, and one I received
: privately, folks, PERL is a very good product, with lots of potential,
: and current usefulness across several platforms.
Even Windows.
: BUT unless it remains TOP NOTCH with regard to the alternatives, the
: monster corporations will stomp on it and we'll all be eating crap in
: the bargain.
I think a significant portion of Perl users are not going to be
led around by the nose by some corporation.
-----------------------
It seems to me that a lot of the problems you point out (no make, no C
compiler, no editor) are a consequence of *your* choice of Operating
System.
If you want one with more than limited support for programming,
then choose differently, or live with your decision.
-----------------------
You could join the p5p and help bring Perl to Bill's minions...
Or did you just want to vent a little without _doing_ anything
about it?
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:38:41 GMT
From: Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Text::ParseWords vs. Split
Message-Id: <ebohlmanEnF0CH.LGA@netcom.com>
Rick Freeman <rick@marinweb.com> wrote:
: Hi all,
: I'm reading files consisting of single lines that look like this
: fname::rick::lname::smith::age::22::weight::250
: and creating hashes.
: I'm trying to determine if I should use split or Text::ParseWords. Is
: there an advantage to using the module over doing a simple split?
Depends on what your data can contain. If it's truly impossible for one
of your data fields to contain a delimiter, then a simple split is the
best choice. If your data included things like
favemodule::"Net::FTP"
then using ParseWords would be better.
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 22:44:21 GMT
From: "Al Lipscomb" <lipscomba@hsn.net>
Subject: WIN32 Eventlog module
Message-Id: <01bd2aab$f763f7e0$31e2fea1@w052011>
If someone has a working program that uses the WIN32 modules to open and
read the event log, could you point me to a good example? I have been
playing around with it for a few days and cannot seem to get it working.
Please email me a copy if you could.
Thanks.
Email address: LipscombA@hsn.net
All opinions are my own.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 1735
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