[8118] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1736 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Mon Jan 26 23:07:23 1998
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 98 20:00:21 -0800
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Mon, 26 Jan 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 1736
Today's topics:
Re: a perl question <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: BUG in string pattern match <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: CGI.pm and server errors <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Creating simlink? <rootbeer@teleport.com>
crypt function ... help. chad
Re: crypt function ... help. (brian d foy)
Re: Finding the missing bracket? <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Is Perl cron-able? <jgaff@_no_spam_technologist.com>
Re: Local module bundles? (Mike Heins)
Re: Multpule responce regexp substation (Tad McClellan)
Re: passing arguments to perl/CGI?? (brian d foy)
Re: Perl DB Question <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Perl Source Obfuscator <nmarino@home.com>
Please define the usage in this example. <mpryor@shareone.com>
printing an image <gcyriac@internetmci.com>
Re: Searching using perl (Clay Irving)
Sending binary files on a Socket. There has to be a bet <w.stanton@auckland.ac.nz>
Re: Sorting & Archiving files... (Tad McClellan)
Re: ssh (Greg Bacon)
Re: Subroutine prototype puzzlement (Charles DeRykus)
Re: Survival Of perl (Abigail)
Re: Survival Of perl <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Survival Of perl (Clay Irving)
Re: Survival Of perl <zenin@best.com>
Re: Survival Of perl <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Text::ParseWords vs. Split <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: White Hats and Black <a@b.c.d>
Re: White Hats and Black <markm@nortel.ca>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:16:07 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Syed Babar <syed.babar@amd.com>
Subject: Re: a perl question
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126180900.22284D-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Syed Babar wrote:
> Subject: a perl question
Oh, if only all of the questions in this newsgroup were perl questions!
:-)
Please check out this helpful information on choosing good subject
lines. It will be a big help to you in making it more likely that your
requests will be answered.
http://www.perl.com/CPAN/authors/Dean_Roehrich/subjects.post
> "lsfstop" utillity close the host temporarily and creates a log file
> under /proj/lsf/status. the file name is "hostname.username.close". and
> it ask and logs the reason for closing it. My script should close the
> host and then log the reason. but for some reason it close it but
> doesn't log the reason.
Most of that didn't make sense to me. But I think you're saying that the
problem you're having with your script is its failure to write something
to a logfile.
> #!/usr/local/bin/perl5
> $lsfcmd="/proj/lsf/scripts/lsfstop";
> open(LSFSTOP, "|$lsfcmd ultrasrvr128 babar ")
> || die ("failed to checkin\n ");
I'm not sure that the diagnostic message is necessarily the best. (I'd use
the magical $! variable to find out the reason for failure, at least.) But
if you're not getting that message, that's probably not the problem at the
moment.
> printf (LSFSTOP "testing the script\n\n");
It's generally better to use print in place of printf unless you need
printf's functionality. But that wouldn't be the problem.
> close (LSFSTOP);
> ### system("rm -f $wkpass");
Hmmm... I don't see any attempt to write something to a logfile. Could
that be the problem? Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:41:05 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Brent Webster <webster@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: BUG in string pattern match
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126183830.22284J-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Brent Webster wrote:
> if ($aString =~ m?/CHECKEDOUT$?) { # test#1: fails on 2nd pass
This is a little-known feature. When the delimiter of a pattern match are
question marks, the pattern will match only once, then stop until it's
reset. This feature is documented in perlop. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:54:18 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Sanjay Vohra <sanjay@cis.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: CGI.pm and server errors
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126184344.22284K-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Sanjay Vohra wrote:
> #!/n/umble/0/sanjay/perl5.004
>
> use CGI ':standard';
>
> BEGIN{
> push @INC ,('/n/state/1/cue/sanjay/perl5/lib/CGI.pm-2.37018');
> }
Whoops! If you want the 'use' to find your module along that path, perl
has to see the path before it gets to the 'use'! :-) Not only that, but
by pushing an item onto @INC, that will (literally) be the last place that
perl will look for your modules. Generally, that's not what you want.
Here's some code that you can try. The third line is merely for debugging
purposes.
use lib '/n/state/1/cue/sanjay/perl5/lib/CGI.pm-2.37018';
use CGI;
BEGIN { print "CGI.pm was found in $INC{'CGI.pm'}\n"; exit; }
Why did I make the third line work like that? Because it's possible that
you might not have the right path to your module. If you want to use the
CGI.pm from a particular directory, you need to be sure that you have the
right directory! Otherwise, perl will be glad to use any CGI.pm that it
finds. Once you get the path correct, you can simply comment out the third
line.
Does that do anything for you? Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:39:53 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: skulk@wam.umd.edu
Subject: Re: Creating simlink?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126193915.22284P-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998 skulk@wam.umd.edu wrote:
> i need to create a simlink in my code. how do i do that?
Once you spell it "symlink", it's easy to find in the perlfunc manpage.
:-)
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 15:44:23 -0800
From: chad
Subject: crypt function ... help.
Message-Id: <6aj74n$73i@drn.zippo.com>
How do I de-crypt a crypt'd string? I cryp'd it using the perl crypt function.
thanks,
-chad
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:11:12 -0500
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: crypt function ... help.
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2601982111120001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <6aj74n$73i@drn.zippo.com>, chad posted:
>How do I de-crypt a crypt'd string? I cryp'd it using the perl crypt function.
perldoc -f crypt
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:30:05 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Mike West <westmj@esvax.dnet.dupont.com>
Subject: Re: Finding the missing bracket?
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126182456.22284G-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On 26 Jan 1998, Mike West wrote:
> How do I find the other end with Emacs? (I am stumped...)
I don't know; I'm not an emacser. But the people in a newsgroup about Unix
may be able to help you, if you can't find the answer in the docs.
> Also, if I have a script I want to convert to a nice indent style
> like emacs, is there a filter to do so?
There's some information about this in section 3 of the FAQ.
> I do use BBEdit on a Mac, which I love, but if the other bracket
> is farther than a screen away, I do not find it. I can split screens,
> but last I checked the other screen does not blink the other bracket.
The developers of BBEdit work very hard to make it a good editor for
programmers. Perhaps you should check again to see if there is a way to do
that, or you could suggest it to the BBEdit developers. Someone in a
newsgroup like comp.editors may be able to tell you more. Good luck!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 02:10:55 GMT
From: "jgaff" <jgaff@_no_spam_technologist.com>
Subject: Re: Is Perl cron-able?
Message-Id: <01bd2ac8$c93d3760$444d2499@jgaff.earthlink.net>
| >According to "jgaff" <jgaff@_no_spam_technologist.com>:
| >>Does Perl have special problems or considerations when running as a
cron
| >>job?
Blah blah blah I wrote asking about Perl and cron. Thanks for the
responses. Turns out the Perl
script was using running a command from a little package called Info Query
(which I
know LESS about than Perl) and needed to get stdin to run. Changed it to
call stdin from a file containing
a "^M" and oh my she worked. BTW a founder of the company where I work at
figured it out in a second once he
saw what the script was trying to do. Guess my education continues. Thanx
again to everyone for the help.
jgaff
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 02:06:45 GMT
From: mheins@prairienet.org (Mike Heins)
Subject: Re: Local module bundles?
Message-Id: <6ajffl$e90$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Dave Barnett (barnett@houston.Geco-Prakla.slb.com) wrote:
: tdahm@montesano.com wrote:
: >
: > Is there any way to install a local copy of an entire Perl bundle?
: >
: > I know how to install a local version of just one module, but trying to
: > do this for an entire bundle, like libnet, is giving me fits. Any ideas?
: >
Just edit your .cpan/CPAN/MyConfig.pm file and set
'makepl_arg' => q[PREFIX=~],
or whatever you want it to be.
--
Regards,
Mike Heins
This post reflects the
opinion of my employer.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:45:06 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Multpule responce regexp substation
Message-Id: <imaja6.c6g.ln@localhost>
Eli the Bearded (*@qz.to) wrote:
: my @parts = split(/$split/, $source);
: for (my $i = 0; $i < $#parts; $i++) {
^
^
I expect Eli meant one of these instead:
for (my $i = 0; $i <= $#parts; $i++) {
for (my $i = 0; $i < @parts; $i++) {
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 20:22:27 -0500
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: passing arguments to perl/CGI??
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R2601982022270001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <34CD1C79.111A2D0A@idt.net>, Amos <amosrf@idt.net> posted:
>I'm very new at Perl, so this is probably absurdly simple. I'm trying to
>run a java cgi program invoked by a simple perl script. I need to read
>all the data from a form into a single variable which I then want to
>pass to the java program to be dealt with. As I understand it, the
>server passes all the key/value pairs to the script as standard input. I
>just want to read the whole thing, untouched into a string variable to
>pass to java. I tried:
>
>$a = <STDIN>;
see the CGI specification for details on how data are passed (it's
not always STDIN).
since one would do this the same way despite the language being
used, this isn't a Perl issue (unless you have a problem
implementing because you are unclear on a Perl issue).
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi would be a good place to ask
these sorts of questions.
good luck :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 19:14:17 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: GM <gmac@netcom.ca>
Subject: Re: Perl DB Question
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126185859.22284L-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, GM wrote about a "dirty word" checker:
> I thought of putting words in a big associatative array and check
> something like $hash{'wordtocheck'} exist and use words as keys.
Probably you want to file them all in lower case and use a check something
like this:
&complain if $BAD_WORDS{ lc $word };
But, as others have pointed out, there's sure to be a way for human
ingenuity to outsmart anything you set up. No software to do this has yet
proven to be more clever than the human censors, and even they have been
fooled from time to time. I heard that a few years ago, someone advertised
a new brand of kitty litter called "Catch-It". I wish I'd been there to
see the censors' faces when they realized what they had just allowed on
the air! :-D
Good luck!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:06:23 -0500
From: "Nick" <nmarino@home.com>
Subject: Re: Perl Source Obfuscator
Message-Id: <6ajfhv$ov3$1@ha2.rdc1.pa.home.com>
So you're against obfuscating on principle, then?
Tad McClellan wrote in message ...
>Nick (nmarino@home.com) wrote:
>
>: I have no idea what you're talking about.
>
>
>That is what obfuscating *is*.
>
>You wanna know what he's talking about. Don't you?
>
>Too bad.
>
>Eli has decided to share only the binary (below).
>
>He's hoarding the source code.
>
>Surely he'll explain it after you send in your registration fee.
>
>
>
>What's good for the goose is good for the gander ;-)
>
>Obfuscating is less fun when you're on the receiving end...
>
>
>
>: Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to> wrote in message ...
>: >From RFC 1925:
>: > With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine. However, this is
>: > not necessarily a good idea. It is hard to be sure where they
>: > are going to land, and it could be dangerous sitting under them
>: > as they fly overhead.
>: >
>: >I think it apt here.
>
>
>--
> Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
> tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
> Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 21:19:13 -0600
From: Mark Pryor <mpryor@shareone.com>
Subject: Please define the usage in this example.
Message-Id: <34CD5231.5A1D@shareone.com>
In the following code snippet...
foreach $i(0..$#in_key){
.
.
};
What exactly does the # sign perform? I realize it's used for comments,
but in this case, I haven't found an explanation in the docs.
Thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 02:24:24 GMT
From: George Cyriac <gcyriac@internetmci.com>
Subject: printing an image
Message-Id: <34CD458D.51B47B0A@internetmci.com>
--
I want to make a script that outputs an image to a browser. This is
what I got so far:
#!/usr/bin/perl
open("sm.gif",IMAGE);
print "content-type: image/gif\n\n";
print <IMAGE>;
close(IMAGE);
What am I doing wrong? How do I get the image into a variable?
------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.serve.com/gcyriac/
George Cyriac Bayweb designs
gcyriac@internetmci.com
------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 21:07:25 -0500
From: clay@panix.com (Clay Irving)
Subject: Re: Searching using perl
Message-Id: <6ajfgt$ij7@panix.com>
In <01bd2ab5$16a37460$8b9cc4ce@hsegal.dnvr.uswest.net> "Kevin Tonkin" <kjt111@hotmail.com> writes:
>How do I go about using perl to search a database file which is arranged
>like so:
>var1|var2|var3 etc ?
>If I want to search the first variable, for example, how would I do this?
#!/usr/local/bin/perl5.00403 -w
while (<DATA>) { # read the data
chomp; # remove the newline
$f1 = (split /\|/)[0]; # split on | and get the first field
if ($f1 =~ /^foo/) { # search the field for a regexp
print "Found \"foo\" in $f1\n"; # print it if found
}
}
__DATA__
var1|var2|var3
bar1|bar2|bar3
foo1|foo2|foo3
food1|food2|food3
1foo|2foo|3foo
prints:
Found "foo" in foo1
Found "foo" in food1
--
Clay Irving <clay@panix.com> I think, therefore I am. I think?
http://www.panix.com/~clay/
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 14:42:35 +1200
From: Worik Macky Stanton <w.stanton@auckland.ac.nz>
Subject: Sending binary files on a Socket. There has to be a better way.
Message-Id: <wk4t2qfxic.fsf@auckland.ac.nz>
Friends
I need to send binary files from one machine to another.
I am using sockets.
I put my sockets into file handles.
For a long time I sent only ascii data, and I sent and recieved data a
line at a time. I put a special character on a line by itself (^d) to
mark the end of transmission. So far so good.
But now I have to send some binary files, and started to have problems
with truncated files (at the recieving end).
Well I have got it sort of working using the following method.
To send $data on $s ($s is a reference to the FileHandle object that
encapsulates the socket)
my $l = length $data;
print $s $l . $EOT . $data; # $EOT is the 'end of transmission' marker
To recieve it...
my $ch;
my $l = '';
while(1){
$ch = $s->getc; # My camel book warns not to do this...
last if $ch eq $EOT;
$l .= $ch;
}
my $i;
my $data = '';
for($i = 0; $i < $l; $i++){
$data .= $s->getc;
}
Using a socket to localhost on my P133 Win95 I get 1k a second.
There must be a better way...
I tried using...
$bytesGot = sysread $s, $data, $l;
instead of the last loop using getc, but it didnot work at all.
I am sure there is a simple way of doing this. It must be possible to
send binary files over sockets. There should be a module to do this,
but I cannot find it!
Worik
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:51:30 -0600
From: tadmc@flash.net (Tad McClellan)
Subject: Re: Sorting & Archiving files...
Message-Id: <i2bja6.c6g.ln@localhost>
Jason Ingham (jingham@crimsonweb.com) wrote:
: I need a program to thrash through a load (60,000+) of files in a single
: directory, sort them by date, and then build an archive of a certain size
: (3.85GB) of the oldest files in another directory for eventual backup to tape.
: If I could include time stamps at various points to track the execution speed
: that would be great too.
: Anyone have any clues for me? Thanks!
Sure:
opendir()
readdir()
sort()
rename()
Benchmark.pm
--
Tad McClellan SGML Consulting
tadmc@metronet.com Perl programming
Fort Worth, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 01:55:28 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: ssh
Message-Id: <6ajeqg$45j$1@info.uah.edu>
[Posted and mailed]
[Followup-To: set]
In article <34CD14E4.621B8107@organizedmedia.com>,
Thomas Lockney <media@organizedmedia.com> writes:
: I'm looking for a module or any information pertaining to ssh within
: perl. I need to replicate a directory tree across a systems, one of
: which is using ssh. I don't want to have to make system calls to scp
: each time I find a file needing to be copied. Anyone have any experience
: with this?
This isn't really a Perl solution, but why not just
% scp -r /path/to/root dest-machine:/dest/path
or the Perl equivalent?
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 01:23:28 GMT
From: ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
Subject: Re: Subroutine prototype puzzlement
Message-Id: <EnF574.7Ko@bcstec.ca.boeing.com>
Keywords: subroutine prototype
In article <6ab2es$7m4$1@purdy.tc.fluke.com>,
Warren Jones <wjones@tc.fluke.COM> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to write a function with the prototype (\@@), and it
> doesn't work the way I expect. I can't seem to pass in a named
> list (e.g. "@b") as the second argument to such a function.
> Here's a little script that demonstrates the problem:
>
> ------------------------------- snip snip -------------------------------
> #! /usr/local/bin/perl -w
>
> sub foo (\@@) {
> print "count = ", scalar(@_), "\n";
> foreach ( @_ ) {
> print "\t[", defined($_) ? $_ : "UNDEF", "]\n";
> }
> print "\n";
> }
>
> my @a = ( 1, 2, 3 );
> my @b = ( 4, 5, 6 );
> my @c;
>
> foo @a, @b; # Why doesn't this work as expected ?
> foo @a, ( @b ); # This works.
> foo @a, @c = @b; # So does this.
> foo @a, 7, 8, 9; # This works too.
>
> ------------------------------- snip snip -------------------------------
>
> And here's the output from the script (run with perl 5.004_03 under
> Solaris 2.5):
>
> count = 2
> [ARRAY(0xb1aec)]
> Use of uninitialized value at ./foo line 6.
> []
>
> count = 4
> [ARRAY(0xb1aec)]
> [4]
> [5]
> [6]
>
> count = 4
> [ARRAY(0xb1aec)]
> [4]
> [5]
> [6]
>
> count = 4
> [ARRAY(0xb1aec)]
> [7]
> [8]
> [9]
>
> My questions:
>
> 1. Why doesn't @b work as the second parameter to "foo",
> although "@c = @b" works just fine? Passing a literal
> list ( 7, 8, 9 ) works too.
>
> 2. Why the warning about "Use of uninitialized value?"
> If the second parameter is uninitialized, why doesn't
> the test for undefined($_) catch it?
>
> Note also that a function with just (@) for a prototype doesn't
> have this problem.
>
> Thanks in advance for any enlightenment.
>
And \@\@ works just fine also.
Here's something strange too:
sub foo (\@@) {
foreach ( @_ ) {
print "\$_ = $_ \@{$_} = @{$_}\n";
print "\n";
}
my @a = ( 1, 2, 3 );
my @b = ( 7, 8, 9 );
Output (omitting warnings):
$_ = ARRAY(0x28780) @{ARRAY(0x28780)} = 1 2 3
$_ = @{} = 7 8 9
HTH,
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 01:35:24 GMT
From: abigail@fnx.com (Abigail)
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <6ajdks$2ku$1@client3.news.psi.net>
Zenin (zenin@best.com) wrote on 1610 September 1993 in
<URL: news:885859911.353673@thrush.omix.com>:
++ Chip Salzenberg <chip@mail.atlantic.net> wrote:
++ : Bollocks. The web is lame. The web is boring. The web is nothing
++ : more or less than producing formatted text on demand.
++ :
++ : *yawn*
++
++ I have never heard such a more correct statement before about
++ the Web. I agree 100%.
I agree for 95%. :) 95% of the web is worthless. The idea of the web
however excites me more than perl. It's just that Netscape and its
followers has ruined it.
++ : The cutting edge is Perl compilation and distributed safe Perl code
++ : and better regexes and better performance and more reliability and
++ : faster bug fixes and better support and modules and more modules and
++ : MORE MODULES to do all kinds of neat stuff.
++
++ How did you manage to forget thread support?!?!? :^)
Lemme guess, on purpose?
Abigail
--
perl -wle 'print "Prime" if (1 x shift) !~ /^1?$|^(11+?)\1+$/'
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 01:56:19 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <6ajes3$o58$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Zenin <zenin@best.com> writes:
: How did you manage to forget thread support?!?!? :^)
You're seriously telling me that you're looking forward to giving threads
to people who can't even understand critical sections, advisory locking,
data integrity, shared file descriptors, mutexes, counting semaphores,
signals, non-blocking I/O, fork, copy-on-write, or select? Is that
right?
The vast majority Perl users need threads the way a five-year-old
needs an Uzi. Maybe even not that much.
I for one do not look forward to that day.
--tom
--
Tom Christiansen tchrist@jhereg.perl.com
#ifdef USE_STD_STDIO /* Here is some breathtakingly efficient cheating */
--Larry Wall, from sv.c in the v5.0 perl distribution
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 21:23:45 -0500
From: clay@panix.com (Clay Irving)
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <6ajgfh$jev@panix.com>
In <34ce01f1.22869523@news.halcyon.com> FHeasley@chemistry.com (Frank) writes:
>Yep, been to CPAN many xxx. Also been to Microsoft. Guess who's got
>more money?
Now that's a silly statement. What could you buy at CPAN? :)
[...]
>I sympathize fully. Huge corporations with monster marketing budgets
>have honed the art of selling crap to the public to a fine edge
>indeed. It's gotten to the point that no one will buy anything unless
>it's crammed down their throats with huge marketing campagins, and it
>doesn't matter how good, or lousy, the product may be. It's wrong,
>and it stinks, but it's how things ARE.
Where do you want to go today?
[...]
>In summary for this and the previous reply, and one I received
>privately, folks, PERL is a very good product, with lots of potential,
>and current usefulness across several platforms.
>BUT unless it remains TOP NOTCH with regard to the alternatives, the
>monster corporations will stomp on it and we'll all be eating crap in
>the bargain.
Heh. Those monsters are going to have to chase an awful lot of people and
do an awful lot of stomping.
--
Clay Irving <clay@panix.com> I think, therefore I am. I think?
http://www.panix.com/~clay/
------------------------------
Date: 27 Jan 1998 02:25:40 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@best.com>
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <885868153.108594@thrush.omix.com>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
: [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
See Frank, THIS is what I'd like to see if you cc a copy
to the author.
: You're seriously telling me that you're looking forward to giving threads
: to people who can't even understand critical sections, advisory locking,
: data integrity, shared file descriptors, mutexes, counting semaphores,
: signals, non-blocking I/O, fork, copy-on-write, or select? Is that
: right?
Yes. You know, we could always implant required "magic words"
that would not allow threads to work with out them put in the
code. Then we salt these words thoughout the documentation
for all the features you mention above and more. :-)
: The vast majority Perl users need threads the way a five-year-old
: needs an Uzi. Maybe even not that much.
: I for one do not look forward to that day.
Hey, I'm only really interested in properly shared data myself. It
makes multiplexed servers a hell of a lot easier to build, as well
as make Tk programming at least a *little* cleaner then it currently
is. If you can give me shared data structures between real processes
and the ability to use Tk widgets from children I'd be happy. Yes,
I've tried using shared memory, semaphores, and mutexes for some of
the above, but it's a *major* pain compared to shared data and about
as portable as Java... I'm still amazed (or not, actually...) that
my shared memory code that works perfectly under FreeBSD, SEGV's
randomly under Solaris...
--
-Zenin
zenin@best.com
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:33:42 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Frank <FHeasley@chemistry.com>
Subject: Re: Survival Of perl
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126183032.22284H-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Frank wrote:
> The cutting edge is a very small part of the knife, but it's the place
> where the action is. The web is the cutting edge for perl.
I think you've got that backwards. The cutting edge for the web uses Perl.
The cutting edge for Perl is far more interesting than that. :-)
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:20:50 -0800
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Rick Freeman <rick@marinweb.com>
Subject: Re: Text::ParseWords vs. Split
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980126181704.22284E-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Mon, 26 Jan 1998, Rick Freeman wrote:
> I'm reading files consisting of single lines that look like this
>
> fname::rick::lname::smith::age::22::weight::250
>
> and creating hashes.
>
> I'm trying to determine if I should use split or Text::ParseWords. Is
> there an advantage to using the module over doing a simple split?
In what way do the docs for the module (and for split) fail to make it
clear what the differences are?
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 21:26:38 -0500
From: Myles Barrett Williams <a@b.c.d>
Subject: Re: White Hats and Black
Message-Id: <lchg6qd541.fsf@duncan.cs.utk.edu>
jgd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) writes:
> From article <lcn2gj9lu6.fsf@duncan.cs.utk.edu>, by Myles Barrett Williams <a@b.c.d>:
> > I predict Netscape will find
> > that they can't even give their browser away. It will end up being
> > the favorite of hackers, but it's pretty much finished as an end-user
> > browser.
>
> Hmmm... just like another "free software package" named Perl? :-)
I see no relevance here. End-users are the people who do not program,
so you won't find them using Perl.
End-users outnumber hackers, and they have sharply contrasting ideas
about what is desirable in software. Always will. If Netscape wanted
to attract the greatest number of people back to its browser, this was
a foolish way to do it.
It looks to me like Netscape is just trying to quit the browser
business without anyone knowing.
Myles Williams
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 1998 21:46:57 -0500
From: Mark Mielke <markm@nortel.ca>
Subject: Re: White Hats and Black
Message-Id: <lq1k9bmr5um.fsf@bmers2e5.nortel.ca>
Myles Barrett Williams <a@b.c.d> writes:
> jgd@alpha2.csd.uwm.edu (John G Dobnick) writes:
> > From article <lcn2gj9lu6.fsf@duncan.cs.utk.edu>, by Myles Barrett Williams <a@b.c.d>:
> > > I predict Netscape will find
> > > that they can't even give their browser away. It will end up being
> > > the favorite of hackers, but it's pretty much finished as an end-user
> > > browser.
> >
> > Hmmm... just like another "free software package" named Perl? :-)
>
> I see no relevance here. End-users are the people who do not program,
> so you won't find them using Perl.
>
> End-users outnumber hackers, and they have sharply contrasting ideas
> about what is desirable in software. Always will. If Netscape wanted
> to attract the greatest number of people back to its browser, this was
> a foolish way to do it.
End users are also the stupidest when it comes to what is desirable and
what is not.
> It looks to me like Netscape is just trying to quit the browser
> business without anyone knowing.
I figure it's a combination of both. They keep the browser, they keep the
name. Other people do the coding/bugfixes/etc. i.e. they don't have to spend
very many more man-hours on anything. As the product was basically free to
the majority of the people, they can now pull greater profits from other
areas. So you're right... they want to quit the browser business... there
isn't very much that they can do to make it that much better. (same problem
corel is running into... many people are satisfied with corel 4... people
stop upgrading...)
mark
-- _________________________
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|\/| |_| |_| |/ |_ |\/| | |_ | |/ |_ | Box 3511, Station 'C' |
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markm@nortel.ca / al278@freenet.carleton.ca |_______________________|
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 1736
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