[166] in UA Senate
Re: 41UAS2.3: Bill to Authorize the Treasurer to Reallocate Money to
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Maggie Delano)
Mon Oct 19 22:28:42 2009
In-Reply-To: <4463F7FD-BA20-483A-B85E-80EFE4A570B2@mit.edu>
From: Maggie Delano <maggied@MIT.EDU>
Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:28:01 -0400
To: Alexandra Jordan <amjordan@mit.edu>
Cc: Paul Youchak <youchakp@mit.edu>, Ted Hilk <thilk@mit.edu>,
Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu>, UA Senate <ua-senate@mit.edu>
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To address Alex's second point: I think it would be useful to see how much
money a committee actually spent *along with* what they were allocated. I
don't think this will explicitly set a precedent for lower budgets, as we
would still like to overallocate slightly on line items.
-Maggie
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Alexandra Jordan <amjordan@mit.edu> wrote=
:
> Response to Paul:
>
> I agree that committees could find that a project can't be implemented, o=
r
> that they no longer want to implement it, but since Senate budgeted money
> for said project, Senate should be informed and able to approve the
> reallocation of these funds. I don't want to take the right of Committee
> Chairs to use their discretion on projects, but rather I don't want to
> formally exclude Senate from deciding to change project funding.
>
> I'm not worried about the Treasurer unilaterally changing committee budge=
ts
> mid-semester. I'm worried about putting a piece of legislation in place t=
hat
> practically guarantees that next year's chairs will have a precedent of
> lower budgets and will thus have to work much harder to ask for increased
> allocations. As I said before, Senate usually relies on precedent when
> approving allocations, so this would almost ensure a more difficult budge=
t
> approval for many committees.
>
> Alex
>
>
>
> On Oct 19, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Paul Youchak wrote:
>
> I am responding to both Alex and Ted here...
>>
>> Committees may fund for a project and later find out is is either not
>> possible or not desirable. Committees may think a project is a good ide=
a
>> but they will not really know, for whatever reason, that their idea shou=
ld
>> be implemented until they have tried. Committee's can make mistakes abo=
ut
>> what they want to do in the upcoming semester, especially since they are
>> budgeted for so far in advance. If a committee cannot fulfill their
>> obligation for the project then it is acceptable to remove the line. In=
my
>> mind there are not separate issues.
>>
>> Having the reallocation of money be reversible makes no sense. The
>> committee leader should not release the money unless they are 100% sure =
they
>> wont need it. Secondly, if they find they have changed their mind it is
>> always possible to ask for more money from discretionary. I don't think
>> this will ever happen, so its not a very strong objection to the bill.
>>
>> The treasurer does by no means have the right to reduce a committees
>> budget mid semester. If you are afraid of the committee being overruled=
by
>> the committee chair then we can say the committee must unanimously (2/3,
>> whatever) approve of the reallocation of funds. I however, think you ar=
e
>> more concerned with the power in the treasurer. Remember, the Senate st=
ill
>> has ultimate control because we do now have the right reverse his decisi=
on.
>>
>> Note, this bill will only last for this year unless we decide to renew i=
t.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Ted Hilk wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That the Treasurer may reallocate funds from one part of the UA
>>> budget to the pool of funds that
>>> the Finance Board helps allocate to student groups for the next
>>> funding period;
>>>
>>>
>>> Regarding this pool: if the applicable committee chair later decides th=
at
>>> this decision was made in error, is there any way for it to be reversed=
?
>>> Given that the money is allocated to a "pool of funds" rather than dir=
ectly
>>> to the groups (hence implying some time delay before the money is actua=
lly
>>> out of UA's control), shouldn't such reversal be an option? If not, wh=
y
>>> not?
>>>
>>> That such reallocations must be approved by the committee chair or
>>> other officer in charge of the
>>> budget area losing said funds;
>>>
>>>
>>> Would it be possible to clarify, in the text of the bill, which specifi=
c
>>> positions are allowed to do this for which specific budget areas? I fe=
el
>>> that the existing wording is a bit vague, given the powers involved.
>>>
>>> That the Senate, Finance Board, and [a]affected Chair must be
>>> informed of each such reallocation;
>>>
>>>
>>> Is there a reason why this line does not say "by the next meeting of th=
e
>>> Senate"? While understanding the importance of delegation, I believe t=
hat
>>> timely information is necessary to allow for review of the decisions.
>>>
>>> Finally, I would like to note that I'm not by any means opposed to the
>>> principle of this bill. I agree that leftover money from our operation=
s
>>> should go to student groups. I just want to make sure that Senate exer=
cises
>>> caution in doing so, and more time for discussion was necessary to meet=
this
>>> aim.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Ted Hilk
>>> EC Senator
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Alex Dehnert <adehnert@mit.edu <mailto=
:
>>> adehnert@mit.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Since we postponed this a week...
>>>
>>> If you have questions: Please ask them explicitly. Otherwise, no
>>> guarantee that you'll get an answer... I'm not psychic.
>>>
>>> I'll probably put together some more information shortly, but I
>>> encourage some discussion to happen here besides that.
>>>
>>> ~~Alex
>>>
>>>
>>> Alex Dehnert wrote:
>>>
>>> I wrote a bill which is available at
>>> http://web.mit.edu/ua/senate/UAS41/2/moving-money/moving-money.pd=
f
>>> .
>>>
>>> The bill authorizes the treasurer to:
>>> * reallocate funds from a committee to the pool of funds that
>>> the Finance Board helps allocate to student groups for the
>>> next funding period; and
>>> * Requires that such reallocations be approved by the
>>> committee chair losing said funds; and
>>> * That the Senate, Finance Board, and affected Chair must be
>>> informed of each such reallocation; and
>>> * That such authorization shall expire at the end of the
>>> 2009=962010 fiscal year unless renewed by Senate.
>>>
>>> I'm happy to answer any questions that you have. It would be
>>> awesome if we can get most questions out *before* Senate, so
>>> that Senate can be short without being much less effective.
>>>
>>> ~~Alex
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
> __________________________________
> Alexandra Jordan
>
> MIT 2011
> Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science
> Political Science
>
> amjordan@mit.edu
> 916.813.7740
>
>
>
>
>
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To address Alex's second point: I think it would be useful to see how m=
uch money a committee actually spent <i>along with</i> what they were alloc=
ated. I don't think this will explicitly set a precedent for lower budg=
ets, as we would still like to overallocate slightly on line items.<br>
<br clear=3D"all">-Maggie<br>
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Alexan=
dra Jordan <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:amjordan@mit.edu">amjord=
an@mit.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; p=
adding-left: 1ex;">
Response to Paul:<br>
<br>
I agree that committees could find that a project can't be implemented,=
or that they no longer want to implement it, but since Senate budgeted mon=
ey for said project, Senate should be informed and able to approve the real=
location of these funds. I don't want to take the right of Committee Ch=
airs to use their discretion on projects, but rather I don't want to fo=
rmally exclude Senate from deciding to change project funding.<br>
<br>
I'm not worried about the Treasurer unilaterally changing committee bud=
gets mid-semester. I'm worried about putting a piece of legislation in =
place that practically guarantees that next year's chairs will have a p=
recedent of lower budgets and will thus have to work much harder to ask for=
increased allocations. =A0As I said before, Senate usually relies on prece=
dent when approving allocations, so this would almost ensure a more difficu=
lt budget approval for many committees.<br>
<br>
Alex<div><div></div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<br>
<br>
On Oct 19, 2009, at 10:17 PM, Paul Youchak wrote:<br>
<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
I am responding to both Alex and Ted here...<br>
<br>
Committees may fund for a project and later find out is is either not possi=
ble or not desirable. =A0Committees may think a project is a good idea but =
they will not really know, for whatever reason, that their idea should be i=
mplemented until they have tried. =A0Committee's can make mistakes abou=
t what they want to do in the upcoming semester, especially since they are =
budgeted for so far in advance. =A0If a committee cannot fulfill their obli=
gation for the project then it is acceptable to remove the line. =A0In my m=
ind there are not separate issues.<br>
<br>
Having the reallocation of money be reversible makes no sense. =A0The commi=
ttee leader should not release the money unless they are 100% sure they won=
t need it. =A0Secondly, if they find they have changed their mind it is alw=
ays possible to ask for more money from discretionary. =A0I don't think=
this will ever happen, so its not a very strong objection to the bill.<br>
<br>
The treasurer does by no means have the right to reduce a committees budget=
mid semester. =A0If you are afraid of the committee being overruled by the=
committee chair then we can say the committee must unanimously (2/3, whate=
ver) approve of the reallocation of funds. =A0I however, think you are more=
concerned with the power in the treasurer. =A0Remember, the Senate still h=
as ultimate control because we do now have the right reverse his decision.<=
br>
<br>
Note, this bill will only last for this year unless we decide to renew it.<=
br>
<br>
Paul<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Ted Hilk wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, =
204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<br>
=A0 That the Treasurer may reallocate funds from one part of the UA<br>
=A0 budget to the pool of funds that<br>
=A0 the Finance Board helps allocate to student groups for the next<br>
=A0 funding period;<br>
<br>
<br>
Regarding this pool: if the applicable committee chair later decides that t=
his decision was made in error, is there any way for it to be reversed? =A0=
Given that the money is allocated to a "pool of funds" rather tha=
n directly to the groups (hence implying some time delay before the money i=
s actually out of UA's control), shouldn't such reversal be an opti=
on? =A0If not, why not?<br>
<br>
=A0 That such reallocations must be approved by the committee chair or<br>
=A0 other officer in charge of the<br>
=A0 budget area losing said funds;<br>
<br>
<br>
Would it be possible to clarify, in the text of the bill, which specific po=
sitions are allowed to do this for which specific budget areas? =A0I feel t=
hat the existing wording is a bit vague, given the powers involved.<br>
<br>
=A0 That the Senate, Finance Board, and [a]affected Chair must be<br>
=A0 informed of each such reallocation;<br>
<br>
<br>
Is there a reason why this line does not say "by the next meeting of t=
he Senate"? =A0While understanding the importance of delegation, I bel=
ieve that timely information is necessary to allow for review of the decisi=
ons.<br>
<br>
Finally, I would like to note that I'm not by any means opposed to the =
principle of this bill. =A0I agree that leftover money from our operations =
should go to student groups. =A0I just want to make sure that Senate exerci=
ses caution in doing so, and more time for discussion was necessary to meet=
this aim.<br>
<br>
Thank you,<br>
Ted Hilk<br>
EC Senator<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 9:18 PM, Alex Dehnert <<a href=3D"mailto:adehner=
t@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">adehnert@mit.edu</a> <mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:adehnert@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">adehnert@mit.edu</a>>> wrote:=
<br>
<br>
=A0 Since we postponed this a week...<br>
<br>
=A0 If you have questions: Please ask them explicitly. Otherwise, no<br>
=A0 guarantee that you'll get an answer... I'm not psychic.<br>
<br>
=A0 I'll probably put together some more information shortly, but I<br=
>
=A0 encourage some discussion to happen here besides that.<br>
<br>
=A0 ~~Alex<br>
<br>
<br>
=A0 Alex Dehnert wrote:<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 I wrote a bill which is available at<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 <a href=3D"http://web.mit.edu/ua/senate/UAS41/2/moving-money/m=
oving-money.pdf" target=3D"_blank">http://web.mit.edu/ua/senate/UAS41/2/mov=
ing-money/moving-money.pdf</a>.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 The bill authorizes the treasurer to:<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 * reallocate funds from a committee to the pool of funds that<=
br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 the Finance Board helps allocate to student groups for the<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 next funding period; and<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 * Requires that such reallocations be approved by the<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 committee chair losing said funds; and<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 * That the Senate, Finance Board, and affected Chair must be<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 informed of each such reallocation; and<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 * That such authorization shall expire at the end of the<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 2009=962010 fiscal year unless renewed by Senate.<br>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 I'm happy to answer any questions that you have. It would =
be<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 awesome if we can get most questions out *before* Senate, so<b=
r>
=A0 =A0 =A0 that Senate can be short without being much less effective.<br=
>
<br>
=A0 =A0 =A0 ~~Alex<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></blockquote>
<br></div></div><div class=3D"im">
__________________________________<br>
Alexandra Jordan<br>
<br>
MIT 2011<br>
Earth, Atmospheric, and Planetary Science<br>
Political Science<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:amjordan@mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">amjordan@mit.edu</a><=
br></div>
916.813.7740<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div><br>
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