[32525] in North American Network Operators' Group
RE: I think I jinxed Sprint
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mathew Butler)
Mon Nov 27 05:51:11 2000
Message-ID: <F062E72E4BA2D4119F1700B0D03D205F39DC@MAIL>
From: Mathew Butler <mbutler@tonbu.com>
To: 'Roeland Meyer' <rmeyer@mhsc.com>,
'Sean Donelan' <sean@donelan.com>, nanog@merit.edu
Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 02:44:00 -0800
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I thought that routers were supposed to send ICMP Source-Quench messages
when they got congested?
Or is this something that the proponents of QoS didn't decide on?
-Mat
-----Original Message-----
From: Roeland Meyer [mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com]
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 8:58 AM
To: 'Sean Donelan'; nanog@merit.edu
Subject: RE: I think I jinxed Sprint
The internet is a lot less forgiving wrt outages then the telco. The telco
can have a circut outage, re-route to another circuit, and the customer
never sees an availability gap. Also, a total outage, during reduced traffic
times, and no customer ever misses a dial-tone because they aren't trying to
get one, is not an outage in telco terms. The internet, on the other hand,
may have similar issues, unless we start talking streaming video, streaming
audio, and voice over IP. In those cases, packet losses can make a serious
mess of things. Also, congestion is treated differently between the two
systems. Telcos will actually return a fast-busy when a switch becomes
congested. The internet simply starts dropping packets. You can actually
hear the latter when using www.dialpad.com or MS-Netmeeting (both of which,
I use extensively).
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<P><FONT SIZE=2>I thought that routers were supposed to send ICMP Source-Quench messages when they got congested?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>Or is this something that the proponents of QoS didn't decide on?</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-Mat</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>-----Original Message-----</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>From: Roeland Meyer [<A HREF="mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com">mailto:rmeyer@mhsc.com</A>]</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 8:58 AM</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>To: 'Sean Donelan'; nanog@merit.edu</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>Subject: RE: I think I jinxed Sprint</FONT>
</P>
<P><FONT SIZE=2>The internet is a lot less forgiving wrt outages then the telco. The telco</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>can have a circut outage, re-route to another circuit, and the customer</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>never sees an availability gap. Also, a total outage, during reduced traffic</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>times, and no customer ever misses a dial-tone because they aren't trying to</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>get one, is not an outage in telco terms. The internet, on the other hand,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>may have similar issues, unless we start talking streaming video, streaming</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>audio, and voice over IP. In those cases, packet losses can make a serious</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>mess of things. Also, congestion is treated differently between the two</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>systems. Telcos will actually return a fast-busy when a switch becomes</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>congested. The internet simply starts dropping packets. You can actually</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>hear the latter when using www.dialpad.com or MS-Netmeeting (both of which,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=2>I use extensively).</FONT>
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