[184605] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: /27 the new /24
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Mike Hammett)
Fri Oct 9 17:32:41 2015
X-Original-To: nanog@nanog.org
Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2015 16:32:30 -0500 (CDT)
From: Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
In-Reply-To: <CABNB40XTLsi-hXgd42YeZnWJ2-xOp22yxEqD6V8WL3K5JhRq0w@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces@nanog.org
As I "know" Jeremy from elsewhere, I reached out to him this morning about =
this. I would like to speak with any other Alaskers? Alaskites? people from=
Alaska.=20
-----=20
Mike Hammett=20
Intelligent Computing Solutions=20
http://www.ics-il.com=20
Midwest Internet Exchange=20
http://www.midwest-ix.com=20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Austin" <jhaustin@gmail.com>=20
To: "Owen DeLong" <owen@delong.com>=20
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, "James Jun" <james@towardex.com>=20
Sent: Friday, October 9, 2015 3:51:12 PM=20
Subject: Re: /27 the new /24=20
On Fri, Oct 9, 2015 at 12:04 PM, Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com> wrote:=20
>=20
>=20
> The future is here, but it isn't evenly distributed yet. I'm in North=20
> America, but there are no IXPs in my *state*, let alone in my *continent*=
=20
> -- from an undersea fiber perspective. There is no truly competitive IP=
=20
> transit market within Alaska that I am aware of. Would love to be proved=
=20
> wrong. Heck, GCI and ACS (the two providers with such fiber) only directl=
y=20
> peered a handful of years ago.=20
>=20
>=20
> Alaska is in the same continent as Canda and the Contiguous US.=20
>=20
Geographically yes, but not IP-topologically. It may strictly speaking be=
=20
an exaggeration to speak of continental latencies, but we do feel a bit cut=
=20
off up here. From me to Ohio is just about twice as far as from me to CA.=
=20
The distance from the eastern US to Portugal is only about twice as long as=
=20
the Anchorage to Seattle route.=20
> VANIX (Vancouver), CIX (Calgary), Manitoba-IX (Winnipeg), WPGIX=20
> (WInnipeg), TORIX (Toronto),=20
> and an exchange in Montreal (I forget the name) exist as well as a few=20
> others in Canada (I think=20
> there=E2=80=99s even one out in the maritimes).=20
>=20
If there were ever an Alaska-to-Canada pipeline or gas line built, no doubt=
=20
there could be fiber. To my knowledge no non-Arctic Alaska to Yukon route=
=20
exists or is in public planning. I think AT&T may have some microwave. The=
=20
Yukon has less overall population than the city of Fairbanks, AK, and it=20
would be difficult to justify a fiber build, say, from Tok to Whitehorse,=
=20
without other reasons. I'm not looking at great circle routes at the=20
moment, but an overland route would probably be *longer* from Anchorage to=
=20
Vancouver than the current undersea routes.=20
> There are tons of exchanges all over the contiguous US.=20
>=20
Exactly. Now imagine an area =E2=80=94 Alaska not including Anchorage =E2=
=80=94 twice the=20
size of Texas, with the population of Pittsburgh, in tiny clumps far apart.=
=20
It is *possible* that the lack of IX in Alaska is due solely to geography=
=20
and not, say, to an inadequately competitive ISP environment.=20
I=E2=80=99m surprised that there isn=E2=80=99t yet an exchange point in Jun=
eau or=20
> Anchorage, but that=20
> does, indeed, appear to be the case. Perhaps you should work with some=20
> other ISPs=20
> in your state to form one.=20
>=20
Juneau, I'm not so surprised; how many other cities that small and isolated=
=20
have IXes? I'm curious. It's an interesting prospect, at least for some=20
value of $location. Anyone interested, hit me up.=20
According to this:=20
> http://www.alaskaunited.com=20
>=20
> There is subsea fiber to several points in AK from Seattle and beyond.=20
>=20
Said undersea fiber is owned by GCI and ACS. There are some pending routes=
=20
west and north, I believe.=20
>=20
> And on a continental basis, quite a bit of undersea fiber in other landin=
g=20
> stations=20
> around the coastal areas of the contiguous 48.=20
>=20
> If you are buying DIA circuit from some $isp to your rural location that=
=20
> you call "head-end" and are expecting to receive a competitive service,=
=20
> and support for IPv6, well, then your expectations are either unreasonabl=
e,=20
> ignorant or both.=20
>=20
> Interestingly both statewide providers *do* provide both IPv4 and IPv6=20
> peering. The trick is to find a spot where there's true price competition=
.=20
> The 3 largest statewide ISPs have fiber that meets a mere three city bloc=
ks=20
> from one of my POPs, but there's no allowable IX. I'm looking at you, AT&=
T.=20
>=20
>=20
> I=E2=80=99m not sure what you mean by =E2=80=9Callowable IX=E2=80=9D, to =
the best of my knowledge,=20
> anyone=20
> can build an IX anywhere.=20
>=20
I should have been more clear. No allowable IX *at the nearest fiber=20
meetup to me*.=20
It would be illuminating to see what minimum peak hour per-capita bw is=20
necessary to make rural IX pay, and for what value of $rural.=20
"Alaska suffers from=E2=80=A6 an abject lack of density." =E2=80=94Joe Fred=
doso, Mighty=20
River/USAC=20
