[136884] in North American Network Operators' Group
Re: "Leasing" of space via non-connectivity providers
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Owen DeLong)
Sun Feb 6 00:44:54 2011
From: Owen DeLong <owen@delong.com>
In-Reply-To: <98C34E6A-7023-4141-BBC6-9A800CB2CB6B@queuefull.net>
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 21:42:38 -0800
To: Benson Schliesser <bensons@queuefull.net>
Cc: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com, NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Errors-To: nanog-bounces+nanog.discuss=bloom-picayune.mit.edu@nanog.org
On Feb 5, 2011, at 9:24 PM, Benson Schliesser wrote:
>=20
> On Feb 5, 2011, at 2:25 PM, Owen DeLong wrote:
>=20
>> The fact that a very large number of network operators use the data
>> contained in the RIR system in a cooperative manner is convenient
>> and makes the internet substantially more useful than I can imagine
>> it would be under alternative scenarios. However, that does not mean
>> that the RIRs are granting any sort of license, right to use, or =
ownership.
>> Nor does it mean that terminating a registration constitutes taking =
away
>> such a grant that was never given.
>=20
I need to be very clear here... The opinions I am expressing are mine =
and mine
alone. I don't know if ANYONE at ARIN shares them with me.
> This is a pretty tenuous position. If the Whois database isn't =
specifying the proper association between an organization and an address =
block, what is it for? I think you're suggesting that the definition of =
"proper" in this case is no more than ARIN's non-binding recommendation. =
If that's the case then ARIN has no "authority" as the address =
registry. I think ARIN's own statements, relationship with NRO and =
IANA, etc, all contradict this.
>=20
What I am saying is that ARIN and the Whois database ARIN maintains is =
authoritative only
so far as those using the data wish to consider it authoritative.
It does not command any particular network operator to treat any set of =
numbers in any
particular way.
ARIN is the registry recognized as authoritative in its geographic =
region by NRO and IANA.
However, one can maintain a database of integers that is not sanction by =
NRO and IANA
and if people choose to put your numbers into their routers instead of =
ARIN or other NRO
or IANA based registry numbers, who is to stop them or you?
The ability of ARIN to influence the routing table is strictly limited =
to the fact that ISPs
choose to consider ARIN authoritative. That choice is entirely voluntary =
on the part of
the ISPs.
> On the other hand, if ARIN intends the Whois to reflect the proper =
association between organizations and address blocks, then it has some =
responsibility for the accuracy of that data. While not a perfect =
comparison, it would be somewhat like a financial services company hired =
to maintain shareholder ownership records of a public company - =
negligence in maintaining accurate records can result in criminal =
consequences. In fact, in my example, if the company decided to =
reallocate one group of shares to new owners they'd find themselves in a =
deep pile of trouble - we have laws that govern property rights, define =
theft and fraud, etc, all of which takes precedence over company policy.
>=20
I think ARIN has tremendous responsibility for the accuracy of that =
data. However, the
definition of what is accurate is governed only by ARIN policy and the =
contracts ARIN has
to provide registration services.
> It would be disingenuous to offer a database of information, recommend =
it be used by the public, support its use as an authoritative source, =
and then deny any responsibility for the contents. I don't think your =
position on this particular topic reflects ARIN in reality.
>=20
I am not denying that ARIN has responsibility for the contents of the =
database. I absolutely
feel they are responsible to the members and to the resource holders who =
pay ARIN for
registration services to keep that data accurate. So far, they have also =
voluntarily accepted
additional data which may or may not be accurate in support of a =
community of pre-existing
registrations that have no contract with ARIN. There is no reason I know =
of that ARIN would
not be within its rights to terminate that free voluntary registration =
service at any time.
Note, I think such an action on ARINs part would be ill-advised and =
contrary to the good
of the community and harmful to the internet. It might even be damaging =
to ARINs very
relevance to the internet.
I'm merely pointing out that legacy holders cannot be assured ARIN will =
continue to provide
a free registration service for them in perpetuity. If they want to =
guarantee the services they
have today, signing the LRSA is crucial. If they do not sign the LRSA, =
there is nothing
to prevent the community from changing ARIN policy in such a way that =
said free services
are terminated.
I will oppose any such move by the community. I have strongly opposed =
previous
efforts in this direction. However, I am one voice in a much larger =
community.
Owen
