[98388] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Sat Apr 12 10:54:05 2014
From: "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
To: "'tlhIngan Hol mailing list'" <tlhIngan-Hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <50B60C6D-35AA-4BF9-9D39-7F2B11D99BE9@alcaco.net>
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2014 07:53:45 -0700
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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Ah that is useful to me. I don=E2=80=99t have a cassette player =
anymore. I hope my CK cassettes still work.
So why do you think Marc Okrand uses the perfective so much more than we =
do? There can easily be something special about hunger and thirst. =
Maybe it=E2=80=99s specifically because the time stamp is there in those =
sentences that the perfective isn=E2=80=99t used. English has the same =
rule, in fact.=20
I have eaten.
I ate at five o=E2=80=99 clock.
*I have eaten at five o=E2=80=99clock.=20
The last one can be used, but only in a context like =E2=80=9CI have =
eaten at five o=E2=80=99 clock in the past, but usually I eat at =
eight.=E2=80=9D
=20
- Qov
=20
From: ghunchu'wI' [mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net]=20
Sent: April 12, 2014 7:23
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past
=20
On Apr 12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, "Robyn Stewart" <robyn@flyingstart.ca> =
wrote:
=20
I=E2=80=99ve been a huge advocate for a sentence with no aspect =
translatable as simple present, past or future, but canon isn=E2=80=99t =
supporting it. Marc has very consistently not used it that way.
=20
Conversational Klingon gives us clear instruction.=20
=20
wa'Hu' jIghung.
Yesterday I was hungry.
DaHjaj jI'oj.
Today I am thirsty.
wa'leS jIDoy'.
Tomorrow I'll be tired.
=09
=20
This doesn't merely support the "no aspect can be any tense" position. =
It prescribes it.
=20
Our principal example of canonical Klingon narrative, the paq'batlh, is =
extremely consistent in this usage. When context calls for it, =
aspectless verbs in the Klingon are paired with future and past tense =
phrases in the English.=20
=20
-- ghunchu'wI'
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>Ah that is useful to me. =C2=A0I don=E2=80=99t have a cassette player =
anymore. I hope my CK cassettes still work.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br>So why do you think Marc Okrand uses the perfective so much more =
than we do?=C2=A0 There can easily be something special about hunger and =
thirst. Maybe it=E2=80=99s specifically because the time stamp is there =
in those sentences that the perfective isn=E2=80=99t used. English has =
the same rule, in fact. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><br>I have eaten.<br>I ate at five o=E2=80=99 clock.<br>*I have eaten =
at five o=E2=80=99clock. <br><br>The last one can be used, but only in a =
context like =E2=80=9CI have eaten at five o=E2=80=99 clock in the past, =
but usually I eat at eight.=E2=80=9D<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'>- Qov<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> =
ghunchu'wI' [mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net] <br><b>Sent:</b> April 12, 2014 =
7:23<br><b>To:</b> tlhIngan Hol mailing list<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tlhingan-hol] Translating the past<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal>On Apr =
12, 2014, at 2:21 AM, "Robyn Stewart" <<a =
href=3D"mailto:robyn@flyingstart.ca">robyn@flyingstart.ca</a>> =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><blockquote =
style=3D'margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;-webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>I=E2=80=99ve been a huge advocate for a sentence</span> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>with no aspect translatable as simple present, past</span> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>or future, but</span> <span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:black'=
>canon isn=E2=80=99t supporting it. Marc has very consistently not used =
it that way.</span><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Conversational Klingon gives us clear =
instruction. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><table =
class=3DMsoNormalTable border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 style=3D'box-sizing: =
border-box'><tr style=3D'box-sizing: border-box'><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><b>wa'Hu' jIghung.</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><i>Yesterday I was =
hungry.</i><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style=3D'box-sizing: =
border-box'><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: =
border-box'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>DaHjaj =
jI'oj.</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=3DMsoNormal><i>Today I am =
thirsty.</i><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style=3D'box-sizing: =
border-box'><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt;box-sizing: =
border-box'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>wa'leS =
jIDoy'.</b><o:p></o:p></p></td><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt =
.75pt;box-sizing: border-box'><p class=3DMsoNormal><i>Tomorrow I'll be =
tired.</i><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr style=3D'box-sizing: =
border-box'><td style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td><td =
style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'></td></tr></table><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>This doesn't merely support the "no aspect can be =
any tense" position. It <i>prescribes</i> =
it.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Our principal example of canonical Klingon narrative, =
the paq'batlh, is extremely consistent in this usage. When context calls =
for it, aspectless verbs in the Klingon are paired with future =
and past tense phrases in the English. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>-- ghunchu'wI'<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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