[97388] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Tue Oct 15 14:02:14 2013
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Fiat Knox <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk>, Klingon Mailing List
<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2013 18:01:52 +0000
In-Reply-To: <1381857464.18051.YahooMailNeo@web172602.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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> qatlh DujlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv
I don't believe this is correct; I read it as "One wonders if the commander=
has stolen your ship for what reason?"
I believe the only example we have of a question being used as an object is=
{nuq Datlhutlh DaneH?}, and here it's important to note that the whole two=
-sentence construction is also a question. "I know you want to drink, but w=
hat?"
For "One wonders why the commander has stolen your ship.", I'd go with some=
thing like {DujlIj nIHta'meH ra'wI' meq SIvlu'.} ("One wonders of the motiv=
ation for the commander to steal your ship."). However, as Qov mentions, on=
e should be sure one truly means for the wonderers to be unspecified; in En=
glish, "one" is sometimes used as an alternative for "I", "we" or "you", bu=
t this tendency need not have a parallel in Klingon.
________________________________
From: Fiat Knox [fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk]
Sent: Tuesday, October 15, 2013 19:17
To: Alex Greene; Klingon Mailing List
Subject: [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}
I've been thinking about the use of net in a sentence.
The Klingon Dictionary has this to say about net:-
When the verb of the second sentence has a third-person subject (that is, t=
he pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is one or someone, rath=
er than he, she, it, or they, net is used instead of 'e'.
The Klingon Dictionary uses {net} in two example sentences:-
qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov - One knows we kill prisoners
Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej One certainly finds it useful for the mission
I wonder. What other uses have you found for net in a sentence?
Would you, for instance, use qatlh DujlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv One wond=
ers why the Commander stole your ship
or jagh Suvlu'DI' net taj jej lo'nIS; jagh HoSghaj Suvlu'DI' net to' jej lo=
'nIS When fighting an enemy, one must use a sharp blade; when fighting a po=
werful enemy, one must use sharp tactics perhaps?
Tell me how you have used it, or why you have avoided it.
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;"><font color=3D"black" face=3D"garamond,new york,times,serif" size=3D=
"3"><span style=3D"font-size:12pt;background-color:white;"><b>> qatlh Du=
jlIj'e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv<br>
<br>
</b>I don't believe this is correct; I read it as "One wonders if the =
commander has stolen your ship for what reason?"<br>
I believe the only example we have of a question being used as an object is=
{nuq Datlhutlh DaneH?}, and here it's important to note that the whole two=
-sentence construction is also a question. "I know you want to drink, =
but what?"<br>
<br>
For "One wonders why the commander has stolen your ship.", I'd go=
with something like {DujlIj nIHta'meH ra'wI' meq SIvlu'.} ("One wonde=
rs of the motivation for the commander to steal your ship."). However,=
as Qov mentions, one should be sure one truly means
for the wonderers to be unspecified; in English, "one" is someti=
mes used as an alternative for "I", "we" or "you&q=
uot;, but this tendency need not have a parallel in Klingon.<br>
<br>
</span></font>
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">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;" id=3D"divRpF512192"><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Fiat Knox [fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk]<b=
r>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 15, 2013 19:17<br>
<b>To:</b> Alex Greene; Klingon Mailing List<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Tlhingan-hol] Use of {net}<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:garamond,new y=
ork,times,serif; font-size:12pt">
<div><span>I've been thinking about the use of <span style=3D"font-weight:b=
old">net</span> in a sentence.</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<br>
<span></span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<span>The Klingon Dictionary has this to say about <span style=3D"font-weig=
ht:bold">
net</span>:-</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<br>
<span></span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<span>When the verb of the second sentence has a third-person subject (that=
is, the pronominal prefix is 0) but the intended meaning is
<span style=3D"font-style:italic">one</span> or <span style=3D"font-style:i=
talic">someone</span>, rather than
<span style=3D"font-style:italic">he</span>, <span style=3D"font-style:ital=
ic">she</span>,
<span style=3D"font-style:italic">it</span>, or <span style=3D"font-style:i=
talic">they</span>,
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">net</span> is used instead of <span style=
=3D"font-weight:bold">
'e'</span>.<br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<span><br>
</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<span>The Klingon Dictionary uses {<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">net</sp=
an>} in two example sentences:-</span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<br>
<span></span></div>
<div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0); font-size:16px; font-family:garamond,new yo=
rk,times,serif; background-color:transparent; font-style:normal">
<span><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">qama'pu' DIHoH net Sov</span> - <spa=
n style=3D"font-style:italic">
One knows we kill prisoners</span></span></div>
<br>
<span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Qu'vaD lI' net tu'bej</span> One certainly=
finds it useful for the mission<br>
<br>
I wonder. What other uses have you found for <span style=3D"font-weight:bol=
d">net</span> in a sentence?<br>
<br>
Would you, for instance, use <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">qatlh DujlIj'=
e' nIHta' ra'wI' net SIv</span>
<span style=3D"font-style:italic">One wonders why the Commander stole</span=
> your <span style=3D"font-style:italic">
ship</span><br>
<br>
or <span style=3D"font-weight:bold">jagh Suvlu'DI' </span><span style=3D"fo=
nt-weight:bold"><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">net
</span>taj jej lo'nIS; jagh HoSghaj Suvlu'DI' net to' jej lo'nIS</span> <sp=
an style=3D"font-style:italic">
When fighting an enemy, one must use a sharp blade; when fighting a powerfu=
l enemy, one must use sharp tactics</span> perhaps?<br>
<br>
Tell me how you have used it, or why you have avoided it.<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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