[96837] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] bop mu'mey
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Wed Jul 31 06:06:54 2013
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
In-Reply-To: <CABSTb1eNppDViWwCJPpEyh7-sQ1QZgo6wuhgDu2EnXQ6PjWiZQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2013 03:05:41 -0700
Cc: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
--===============8155937891997221813==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary=Apple-Mail-88F4565A-549E-4C5A-B5B3-90FA78051DA9
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
--Apple-Mail-88F4565A-549E-4C5A-B5B3-90FA78051DA9
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 2013-07-30, at 23:15, "Bellerophon, modeler" <bellerophon.modeler@gmail.c=
om> wrote:
> I attempted a translation of a song that needs to be in Klingon. Let's see=
if anyone recognizes it. I took some artistic license:
Artistic license is when you translate English with a valid word that means s=
omething else. Making noun-verb compounds or using a word as the wrong part o=
f speech is just abuse.=20
> I coined "chu'pawwI"
Your meaning is covered without grammatical error by pawwI' chu' - one who a=
rrives and who is new. Also:
chu'wI' - one who is new=20
taghwI' - beginner
chu'chu'wI' - complete newbie
> for newcomer, which is close to the word in the English title, and used "p=
ed" as a noun.
ped is nothing. peD is a verb.=20
> I committed other crimes to try to fit the meter, and there will always be=
typos.
The issue here is what do you want us to do about it? I'm happy to help some=
one write clearer, more grammatical Klingon, but when he says, "look at this=
thing I did, I know it's wrong, I did that on purpose," what is the point? I=
'll try to guess what you don't know and say what it means to me as I read i=
t.=20
> chu'pawwI' bop
pawwI' chu' bop
It is about the new arrival.=20
> chuch ped
chuch peD je - it also snows ice
> puHvo' ramjep
> pemHovvo'
> SoDtaH
=46rom the land, from the midnight daytime star (we have a word jul now for s=
un, but I just figured out from the English term that you might mean "from t=
he land of the midnight sun"). Create your noun-noun grouping first, then pu=
t -vo' on the final element.=20
ramjep jul puH - midnight sun land
ramjep jul puHvo' SoDtaH - It floods from the midnight sun land
A noun with -Daq or -vo' goes at the beginning of its clause, so when I see o=
ne in the middle of a sentence without a conjunction or punctuation, I get c=
onfused. I'm inserting sentence breaks where that happens.=20
> bIQHalmey tujDaq maghoS maH.
I'm okay with bIQHalmey tuj for hot springs, but bIHDaq maghoS means that we=
proceed already in them. You probably want bIH DIghoS, we go to them.=20
> puHmeyDaQ
DaQ is ponytail. I know you mean "-Daq."
> Dujmeymaj yuv Qunpu' mupwI',
So, "the gods' hammer pushes our ships to lands," Or maybe "on the lands"
> novghom'a' wISuvmo',
because we fight an alien horde.=20
> wIbomtaH, wIjachtaH: Suto'vo'qor, jIghoStaH!
We sing it, we scream it, Valhalla, I'm coming.=20
> DonchuqtaH maH,
We go parallel to one another, (don't forget the prefix on maDon)=20
> moqtaH bI'wI'mo'. wa' ngoQmaj 'oHbej puH Hop'e'.
because our oars beat. (I like that one, given the ship context, bI'wI' is u=
nderstandable as oar. Distant land is definitely one of our goals.=20
>=20
> tunqu' bIH yotlhmey SuDqu''e'.
The green fields are so soft.=20
> 'Iwmo' lutmey tlhuplaH bIH,
They can whisper songs because of blood.=20
> veS yu'eghmey DIjotmoHta' 'e'.
We have calmed the waves of warfare. (no idea what that 'e' is trying to do)=
> joHpu'raj joHpu' maH.
We are the lords of your lords.=20
> DaH SumevnIS tlhiH 'ej pIghraj bochenqa',
You must stop now and you will -- okay you're going for "rebuild your ruins=
." The subject of chen is the thing that takes form. With another actor, use=
chenmoH. pIghraj bochenqa'moH makes me first think of building new ruins. I=
s that an idiom in English?
> 'ach wa'leS lutlhlaH roj voq ej, 'ach jajvam SulujtaH.
But tomorrow the peace can be primitive ... and he trusts it? ('ej is in the=
wrong place) .. but this day you are losing.=20
So from context it's a Viking song, but I don't know it.=20
People always feel compelled to translate songs, and are often affronted whe=
n we beg them to walk before they run, but there we are.
qep'a'Daq qaqIH 'e' vItIv. wa' nem qaStaHvIS wanI' naQ bISaH 'e' vItul.=20
And 'angghal seemed to think you owed him money.=20
- Qov=
--Apple-Mail-88F4565A-549E-4C5A-B5B3-90FA78051DA9
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>On 2013-07-30, at 23:15, "Bellerophon,=
modeler" <<a href=3D"mailto:bellerophon.modeler@gmail.com">bellerophon.m=
odeler@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite=
"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I attempted a translation of a song that needs t=
o be in Klingon. Let's see if anyone recognizes it. I took some artistic lic=
ense: </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Artistic license is when=
you translate English with a valid word that means something else. Making n=
oun-verb compounds or using a word as the wrong part of speech is just abuse=
. <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I coine=
d "chu'pawwI" </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Your meaning is c=
overed without grammatical error by <span style=3D"-webkit-tap-highligh=
t-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(17=
5, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0=
.230469); ">pawwI' chu' - one who arrives and who is new. Also:</span><br>ch=
u'wI' - one who is new <div>taghwI' - beginner</div><div>chu'chu'wI' - c=
omplete newbie</div><div><br></div><div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>for newcomer, which is close to the word in the Englis=
h title, and used "ped" as a noun. </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div>ped is nothing. peD is a verb. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"=
cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>I committed other crimes to try to fit the m=
eter, and there will always be typos.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br=
></div>The issue here is what do you want us to do about it? I'm happy to he=
lp someone write clearer, more grammatical Klingon, but when he says, "look a=
t this thing I did, I know it's wrong, I did that on purpose," what is the p=
oint? I'll try to guess what you don't know and say what it means to me as I=
read it. </div><div><br></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div=
dir=3D"ltr">
<div><u>chu'pawwI' bop</u></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>paww=
I' chu' bop</div><div>It is about the new arrival. </div><div><br><bloc=
kquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>chuch ped </div></div></div>=
</blockquote><div><br></div>chuch peD je - it also snows ice</div><div><br><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>puHvo' ramjep</div></div=
></div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>pem=
Hovvo'</div><div>SoDtaH </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=46rom=
the land, from the midnight daytime star (we have a word jul now for sun, b=
ut I just figured out from the English term that you might mean "from the la=
nd of the midnight sun"). Create your noun-noun grouping first, then put -vo=
' on the final element. </div><div><br></div><div>ramjep jul puH - midn=
ight sun land</div><div><br></div><div>ramjep jul puHvo' SoDtaH - It floods f=
rom the midnight sun land<br><div><br></div>A noun with -Daq or -vo' goes at=
the beginning of its clause, so when I see one in the middle of a sentence w=
ithout a conjunction or punctuation, I get confused. I'm inserting sentence b=
reaks where that happens. <br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>bIQHalmey tujDaq maghoS maH.</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div>I'm okay with bIQHalmey tuj for hot springs, but bIHDaq maghoS=
means that we proceed already in them. You probably want bIH DIghoS, we go t=
o them. <br><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"l=
tr">
<div>puHmeyDaQ </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>DaQ is ponytail=
. I know you mean "-Daq."</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>Dujmeymaj yuv Qunpu' mupwI',</div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div>So, "the gods' hammer pushes our ships to lands," Or maybe "on=
the lands"</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><d=
iv>novghom'a' wISuvmo', </div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>becaus=
e we fight an alien horde. <br><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div>wIbomtaH, wIjachtaH: Suto'vo'qor, jIghoStaH!</div></div></di=
v></blockquote><div><br></div>We sing it, we scream it, Valhalla, I'm coming=
. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>D=
onchuqtaH maH,</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>We go parallel t=
o one another, (don't forget the prefix on maDon) </div><div><br><block=
quote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> moqtaH bI'wI'mo'. wa' ngoQma=
j 'oHbej puH Hop'e'.</div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><span styl=
e=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-compos=
ition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-c=
olor: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">because our oars beat. (I like that on=
e, given the ship context, bI'wI' is understandable as oar. Distant land is d=
efinitely one of our goals. </span><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">
<div><br></div><div>tunqu' bIH yotlhmey SuDqu''e'.</div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div>The green fields are so soft. </div><div><br><blockquote t=
ype=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div> 'Iwmo' lutmey tlhuplaH bIH,</div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div>They can whisper songs because of blood. </d=
iv><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr">
<div>veS yu'eghmey DIjotmoHta' 'e'. </div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
We have calmed the waves of warfare. (no idea what that 'e' is trying to do)=
</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>joHpu'raj joH=
pu' maH.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>We are the lords of your lor=
ds. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>
DaH SumevnIS tlhiH 'ej pIghraj bochenqa',</div></div></blockquote><div><br><=
/div>You must stop now and you will -- okay you're going for "rebuild y=
our ruins." The subject of chen is the thing that takes form. With another a=
ctor, use chenmoH. pIghraj bochenqa'moH makes me first think of building new=
ruins. Is that an idiom in English?</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>'ach wa'leS lutlhlaH roj voq ej, 'ach jajvam SulujtaH=
.</div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>But tomorrow the peace can be primi=
tive ... and he trusts it? ('ej is in the wrong place) .. but this day you a=
re losing. </div><div><br></div></div></div><div>So from context it's a=
Viking song, but I don't know it. </div><div><br></div><div>People alw=
ays feel compelled to translate songs, and are often affronted when we beg t=
hem to walk before they run, but there we are.</div><div><br></div><div>qep'=
a'Daq qaqIH 'e' vItIv. wa' nem qaStaHvIS wanI' naQ bISaH 'e' vItul. </d=
iv><div><br></div><div>And 'angghal seemed to think you owed him money. =
;</div><div><br></div><div>- Qov</div></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail-88F4565A-549E-4C5A-B5B3-90FA78051DA9--
--===============8155937891997221813==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============8155937891997221813==--
