[96495] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] -vo' question
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Sun Jun 16 18:58:41 2013
In-Reply-To: <1371422962.29950.YahooMailNeo@web172604.mail.ir2.yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2013 00:58:18 +0200
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: Klingon Mailing List <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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However, there is one example where -vo' isn't used strictly in an only
locative meaning:
chaq SoHvo' vay' vIje' vIneH.
=C2=ABMaybe I'd like to buy something from you.=C2=BB
Of course one might still interpret this as "buying something away/off from
you", but it shows that it's possible (probably if a motion is still
implied, which seems also true for your sentences).
But it might still be better to render your two examples with genitive
constructions, thus linking the origin and the theme simply by
juxtaposition.
- Andr=C3=A9
2013/6/17 Fiat Knox <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk>
> IIRC, it's been established that -Daq and -vo' apply only to physical
> movement to or from a given location.
>
> 3.3.5 Syntactic markers
> *-Daq and -vo' are strictly locative; they refer only to motion, or
> location. They can't be used in other situations in which English uses
> "to", "in" or "from" in a metaphorical sense (eg. "I translate from Engli=
sh
> to Klingon"; you can't use -Daq for "to" or -vo' for "from").* [HQ
> v8n1p7], quoted here from http://teresh.tdonnelly.org/kliadd3.html
>
> +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
> Freelance Author
>
>
> The Plainclothes Clown: http://fiat-knox.livejournal.com
> The Serpent's Tongue: http://toscapetheserpentstongue.blogspot.com/
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* nIqolay q <niqolay0@gmail.com>
> *To:* "tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org" <
> tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
> *Sent:* Sunday, 16 June 2013, 23:17
> *Subject:* [Tlhingan-hol] -vo' question
>
> Is it acceptable to use -vo' in the sense of a thing being given/taken
> from someone, such as:
>
> rewbe'pu'vo' rupmey 'Iq boS qum (The government collects too many
> taxes from the citizens.)
> DIvI' Duyvo' betleH pov Hevpu' ta' (The emperor received an excellent
> bat'leth from the Federation emissary.)
>
> Or is its meaning purely spatial, such that those example sentences
> would have to be rephrased?
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>However, there is one example where -vo' isn=
't used strictly in an only locative meaning:<br><br>chaq SoHvo' va=
y' vIje' vIneH.<span class=3D""><br>=C2=ABMaybe I'd like to buy=
something from you.=C2=BB<br>
<br></span></div><span class=3D"">Of course one might still interpret this =
as "buying something away/off from you", but it shows that it'=
;s possible (probably if a motion is still implied, which seems also true f=
or your sentences).<br>
<br>But it might still be better to render your two examples with genitive =
constructions, thus linking the origin and the theme simply by juxtapositio=
n.<br><br></span></div><span class=3D"">- Andr=C3=A9<br></span></div><div c=
lass=3D"gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2013/6/17 Fiat Knox <span dir=3D"ltr">&l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk" target=3D"_blank">fiat_knox@yaho=
o.co.uk</a>></span><br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style=3D"font-size:12pt;font-family:garamond,new york,times,serif=
">IIRC, it's been established that -Daq and -vo' apply only to phys=
ical movement to or from a given location.<br><br>3.3.5 Syntactic markers<b=
r>
<strong><strong><font color=3D"#DD3615">-Daq</font></strong>
and <strong><font color=3D"#DD3615">-vo'</font></strong> are=20
strictly locative; they refer only to
<u>motion</u>, or <u>location</u>.
They can't be used in other situations in which English uses
"to", "in" or "from" in a metaphorical s=
ense (eg. "I translate from English to Klingon";
you can't use <strong><font color=3D"#DD3615">-Daq</font></strong>
for "to" or <strong><font color=3D"#DD3615">-vo'</font><=
/strong>
for "from").</strong> [HQ v8n1p7], quoted here from <a href=
=3D"http://teresh.tdonnelly.org/kliadd3.html" target=3D"_blank">http://tere=
sh.tdonnelly.org/kliadd3.html</a><br><br><div>+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++=
++++++++++++++++++<br>
Freelance Author</div><br><div><br></div><div>The Plainclothes Clown: <a hr=
ef=3D"http://fiat-knox.livejournal.com" target=3D"_blank">http://fiat-knox.=
livejournal.com</a><br>The Serpent's Tongue: <a href=3D"http://toscapet=
heserpentstongue.blogspot.com/" target=3D"_blank">http://toscapetheserpents=
tongue.blogspot.com/</a><br>
<blockquote style=3D"border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;=
margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px"> <div style=3D"font-family:garamond,new y=
ork,times,serif;font-size:12pt"> <div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,=
new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt">
<div dir=3D"ltr"> <hr size=3D"1"> <font face=3D"Arial"> <b><span style=3D=
"font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> nIqolay q <<a href=3D"mailto:niqolay=
0@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">niqolay0@gmail.com</a>><br> <b><span styl=
e=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@=
stodi.digitalkingdom.org" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingd=
om.org</a>" <<a href=3D"mailto:tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a>> <br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Sunday, 16 June 2013, 23:17<br> <b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subjec=
t:</span></b> [Tlhingan-hol] -vo' question<br> </font> </div> <div><br>=
Is it acceptable to use -vo' in the sense of a thing being given/taken<=
br>
from someone, such as:<br><br>rewbe'pu'vo' rupmey 'Iq boS q=
um (The government collects too many<br>taxes from the citizens.)<br>DIvI&#=
39; Duyvo' betleH pov Hevpu' ta' (The emperor received an excel=
lent<br>
bat'leth from the Federation emissary.)<br><br>Or is its meaning purely=
spatial, such that those example sentences<br>would have to be rephrased?<=
br><br>_______________________________________________<br>Tlhingan-hol mail=
ing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org" target=3D"_blank">=
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org</a><br><a href=3D"http://stodi.digita=
lkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" target=3D"_blank">http://stodi.=
digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br>
<br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></div></div><br>_________=
______________________________________<br>
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br>
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.digitalkingdom.org</a><br>
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arget=3D"_blank">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-=
hol</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
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