[94850] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Klingon Word of the Day: Doq 'ej wovbe'
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (=?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?=)
Mon Oct 15 11:59:18 2012
In-Reply-To: <CAFK8js2-aLVpQ27qj3r9bFyB_-zy0axN_7hihczbx79CKEF_EA@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2012 17:58:59 +0200
From: =?UTF-8?B?QW5kcsOpIE3DvGxsZXI=?= <esperantist@gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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To me, it's not important if the definition of the WotD says it should
necessarily be based on an English word or on a Klingon word with the gloss
in the respective other language. Isn't it more like a lexical entry, a
lexeme, than a word in the narrow sense? Depending on how a dictionary is
structured internally, something like "Red Army" and its German translation
"Rote Armee" can be seen as one lexeme each, composed of two words.
So technically, what is shown in the word of the day, isn't a word in the
narrow sense, but rather a lexical entry. Some phrases are indeed that much
lexicalized that it makes absolute sense to list them as one entry, even
though they really behave like two (or three or more) single words. The
part of speech being "verb" is indeed an unlucky choice, but I don't think
that {Doq 'ej wovbe'} is a bad choice for the word of the day, which I =E2=
=80=93 as
I said =E2=80=93 understand like lexeme of the day (but that sounds weird).=
I see
no problem with that. And it *is* useful for people who perhaps know all
the single morphemes {Doq}, {'ej}, {wov} and {-be'} but who do not know
that this happens to be one of the canonical ways one can use to express
"brown".
- Andr=C3=A9
2012/10/15 ghunchu'wI' 'utlh <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 11:24 AM, qurgh lungqIj <qurgh@wizage.net> wrote:
> > The type "phrase" is used
> > in my database software to represent a "complete canon phrase that has
> > a defined English meaning and is published as being a standalone
> > sentence, as those phrases in The Klingon Way are".
>
> I don't understand. So far as I can tell, {Doq 'ej wovbe'} *is* a
> "complete canon phrase" in exactly the way you say you use "phrase" in
> your software. Are you using a specialized definition of something, or
> making an assumption somewhere, that you think is so obvious that it
> doesn't need to be stated?
>
> > If someone has a complete source for all the words, I will
> > happily merge that into my database and include the information.
>
> In what format would you prefer me to send it to you? Note that what I
> put in my own dictionary is almost exclusively individual words. The
> only multi-word entry in my lexicon database that isn't a noun is the
> exclamation {buy' ngop}.
>
> -- ghunchu'wI'
>
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
> http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">To me, it's not important if the definition of the Wot=
D says it should necessarily be based on an English word or on a Klingon wo=
rd with the gloss in the respective other language. Isn't it more like =
a lexical entry, a lexeme, than a word in the narrow sense? Depending on ho=
w a dictionary is structured internally, something like "Red Army"=
; and its German translation "Rote Armee" can be seen as one lexe=
me each, composed of two words.<br>
So technically, what is shown in the word of the day, isn't a word in t=
he narrow sense, but rather a lexical entry. Some phrases are indeed that m=
uch lexicalized that it makes absolute sense to list them as one entry, eve=
n though they really behave like two (or three or more) single words. The p=
art of speech being "verb" is indeed an unlucky choice, but I don=
't think that {Doq 'ej wovbe'} is a bad choice for the word of =
the day, which I =E2=80=93 as I said =E2=80=93 understand like lexeme of th=
e day (but that sounds weird). I see no problem with that. And it *is* usef=
ul for people who perhaps know all the single morphemes {Doq}, {'ej}, {=
wov} and {-be'} but who do not know that this happens to be one of the =
canonical ways one can use to express "brown".<br>
<br>- Andr=C3=A9<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">2012/10/15 ghunchu'w=
I' 'utlh <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"mailto:qunchuy@alcaco.net=
" target=3D"_blank">qunchuy@alcaco.net</a>></span><br><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex">
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 11:24 AM, qurgh lungqIj <<a href=3D"mailto:qurgh=
@wizage.net">qurgh@wizage.net</a>> wrote:<br>
> The type "phrase" is used<br>
> in my database software to represent a "complete canon phrase tha=
t has<br>
> a defined English meaning and is published as being a standalone<br>
> sentence, as those phrases in The Klingon Way are".<br>
<br>
I don't understand. So far as I can tell, {Doq 'ej wovbe'} *is*=
a<br>
"complete canon phrase" in exactly the way you say you use "=
phrase" in<br>
your software. Are you using a specialized definition of something, or<br>
making an assumption somewhere, that you think is so obvious that it<br>
doesn't need to be stated?<br>
<br>
> If someone has a complete source for all the words, I will<br>
> happily merge that into my database and include the information.<br>
<br>
In what format would you prefer me to send it to you? Note that what I<br>
put in my own dictionary is almost exclusively individual words. The<br>
only multi-word entry in my lexicon database that isn't a noun is the<b=
r>
exclamation {buy' ngop}.<br>
<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
-- ghunchu'wI'<br>
</font></span><div class=3D"HOEnZb"><div class=3D"h5"><br>
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<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org">Tlhingan-hol@stodi=
.digitalkingdom.org</a><br>
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arget=3D"_blank">http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-=
hol</a><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br></div>
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