[94409] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] mIl'oD veDDIr SuvwI': 'ay 6 - potlhbe'chugh yay,
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Robyn Stewart)
Thu Aug 16 01:26:44 2012
In-Reply-To: <BAY166-W37A753273423344F74377BAAB50@phx.gbl>
From: Robyn Stewart <robyn@flyingstart.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 22:26:24 -0700
To: Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com>
Cc: "<tlhingan-hol@kli.org>" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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On 2012-08-15, at 21:24, Rohan Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <qeslagh@hotmail.com> wro=
te:
> maj. 'ej HaqwI'vaD, majQa'.
Dun Qel cham.=20
> jIghItlhpu', jIjatlh:
> > ra' je 'utlh. =ABnIch munobmeH mutlhej wa'maH cha' toy'wI'pu', =BB jatlh=
.
>=20
> mujang Qov, jatlh:
> > I'm happy with nIch for arrows or whatever they are chucking.
>=20
> chonnaQmey "hunting spears" seemed perfect, though I may or may not have g=
one overboard with searching and replacing nIch.
nIch =3D chonnaQ? Hmm, if they're using chetvI'mey, I guess.=20
> taH:
> > The comma looks much better outside those quotes.
>=20
> My system of Klingon punctuation is far from stable and I'll take all sugg=
estions. Here I'm considering getting rid of the comma altogether, as the qu=
otes make the separation clear.
nuq bop bomvaD pIj vInop je.=20
> jIH:
> > =ABSoHvaD, yap cha'DIchlI', SermaDIn. ghaH po' law' toy'wI'pu'wI' po' ra=
p.
> =20
> Qov:
> > jIHagh. loQ ngor.
>=20
> 'ach pum 'Iv? HoQwI' pong'a' vay'? ghaytanHa' jay'.
HoQwI'? mu'vetlh vIghovbe'.=20
> > chaq yajchu'meH laDwI', bIjatlhnIS <ghaH po' law' wa'maH cha' toy'wI'pu'=
wI' po' rap>.
>=20
> maj. vIlaj.
>=20
> Qov:
> > Also in the English version that I partially read they were toy'wI''a'pu=
'. No distinction in
> > their world?
>=20
> It's complicated.
'e' vIpIH.=20
> The Georgian word /mona/ is usually translated "slave" but the /q'ma/, or "=
knight", is a vassal of his lord and therefore technically a slave as well. (=
Damn feudalism. Pretty much everyone who's not a lord or king is in practice=
a type of slave.) I did have doubts about whether to use -'a', and toy'wI''=
a' would probably work fine too.
chIch DawIvta'chugh, DawIvchu'ta'.=20
> jIH:
> > qIpchu'bogh bachmey qIpHa'bogh bachmey je togh=20
> > Hoch chaH; pupbogh De' 'ej lughchu'bogh lunob.=BB
>=20
> Qov:
> > not voDleHchaj luQapmoHmeH nep toy'wI'!
>=20
> Is that "they never lie to make their emperor succeed", or "they lie to ma=
ke their emperor never succeed"? :P If they're not loyal slaves I guess eith=
er is possible!
bIlugh, jaS vIghItlhnIS. Damnit, I'm starting to learn the Italian subjuncti=
ve, the first foreign language I've bothered to do that for, because the Eng=
lish one is so avoidable, but now I want one in Klingon.=20
> jIH:
> > wamwI'pu'Daj ra' je 'utlh. =ABHatlhDaq pejaH,=20
> > Ha'DIbaH tIghIj tlhIH 'ej tIHaw'moH,=BB jatlh. =ABnegh yIjaHmoH je 'ej y=
IghommoH!=BB
>=20
> Qov:
> > He's starting to look like a bit of a git. So colonial.
>=20
> Yah, colonialism is basically feudalism tarted up to look a little less li=
ke outright slavery. Medieval Georgian society was fiercely feudal but I thi=
nk a Klingon would find it eerily familiar.
I thing egalitarian societies are a bit of an aberration, swiftly replaced b=
y dark ages.=20
> jIH:
> > tagha' van lopno' jaj 'uQ'a' je, 'ej QuchchoHpu' Hoch nuv.
> > po veb,
>=20
> Qov:
> > 'uH luSIQtaHvIS wam'a'?
>=20
> ghaytan. 'ach loQ 'oy'DI' SuvwI' bepbe'...
>=20
> (wot 'oH qar'a' {'uH}'e'?)
bIlughchu'. <'uHtaHvIS wam'a'> jIjatlhnIS.=20
> jIH:
> > nargh 'avtanDIl'e'. 'eq, jachbogh jajlo' Qa'=20
> > rur. wammeH Sargh chIS lIgh ghaH; Doqqu' HIpDaj,=20
> > 'IH qabDaj, 'ej mIv SuD tuQ; vaQbej chon SutDaj.
>=20
> Qov:
> > Screw khaki! That game is gonna KNOW I'm coming.
>=20
> :) Hunting at the discotheque!
baS SuD 'oH'a' mIvvetlh'e'?
> jIH:
> > 'utlh tlhej 'e' tlhob 'avtanDIl.
>=20
> Qov:
> > 'e' tlhob? qatlh tlhob. wa'Hu' tlhejchuq 'e' luwuq, qar'a'?
>=20
> qarbej. DaH tlhobmoHbogh meq vISovbe'. chaq 'utlhDaj vuvtaHmeH 'ej quvmoHt=
aHmeH neH tlhobnIS. 'ach ghaytan vIchoH.
tlhobchugh, tlhob.=20
> jIH:
> > SarghDaj'e' tIj je 'utlh,
>=20
> Qov:
> > muHaghmoH <tIj>. 'ughqu''a' chon SutDaj? lIt, lIghchoH ghap vIwIv jIH.
>=20
> Heh. :) I'm doing what I can to translate with my active vocabulary, and t=
Ij was the first thing to come to mind. qaq {lIt}; vIlo'.
SarghDaq vIten. <giggle>
> jIH:
> > 'ej chon luruchmeH 'ej 'ovmeH nItebHa' mej.=20
> > wammeH yotlh luDech wo' nuv law',
>=20
> Qov:
> > Don't these people have xboxes? Dechchugh bong wa' luHoHlaH wamwI'pu'.
>=20
> bey'vetlh qaq law' Du' vumtaHghach qaq puS 'e' vIloy...
Dajbej wanI'.=20
> Still not sure I'm happy with Dech. chaq vIchoH.
qev? ghom?
> (poD vay')
>=20
> jIH:
> > jul tIHmey botchoH lam 'engmey, lam 'engmey=20
> > puvmoHbogh Sarghmeychaj lemDu', puH lumuptaHvIS.
>=20
> Qov:
> > That's slightly confusing on first read because=20
> > the clouds of dirt come a sentence before the=20
> > agent. Is there a reason for the repetition of=20
> > lam 'engmey and not going straight into the relative clause?
>=20
> Other than trying not to be too ambitious with the length of my clauses, n=
ope. bIlugh. vIchoHbej:
>=20
> jul tIHmey botbogh lam 'engmey'e' lupuvmoHlu'pu', puH lumuptaHvIS Sarghmey=
chaj lemDu'.
>=20
> DamaS'a'?
ghobe', puvmoHwI' DaSo'law'mo'. Dachemo' DaQatlhmoH.=20
<jul tIHmey botbogh lam 'engmey puvmoH Sarghmeychaj lemDu', puH lumuptaHvIS.=
> vImaS.=20
> jIH:
> > HoHtaH chaH, bachtaH chaH, chon yotlhDaq 'Iw=20
> > ghaymoHtaH chaH. nIchchaj lubaHta'DI' latlh nIch=20
> > luqemtaH toy'wI'pu'. tagha' vIHqa'laHbe'qu' Ha'DIbaH QIDta'bogh chaH.
>=20
> Qov:
> > Ha'DIbaHmeyvetlh Sop 'e' luHech 'e' vItul.
>=20
> Ha'DIbaH lutoghlu'pu'DI', Sop 'e' luHechchugh Damerqu'choHlu' 'e' vISuD.
mangghom je'laH. nIteb SopnISbe'.=20
jIvummeH ghaytan wejvatlh rep vIrI'lu' 'ach bong ghummo' lojmIt DaH jIQongl=
aHbe'. qay'.=20=
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<html><head></head><body bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><div><span class=3D"Apple-style=
-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -we=
bkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composit=
ion-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">On 2012-08-15, at 21:24, Ro=
han Fenwick - QeS 'utlh <<a href=3D"mailto:qeslagh@hotmail.com">qeslagh@h=
otmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>maj. 'ej HaqwI'vaD, majQa'.<br></div></div></div></blo=
ckquote><div><br></div>Dun Qel cham. <div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"=
><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIghItlhpu', jIjatlh:<br>> ra' je 'utlh. =C2=AB=
nIch munobmeH mutlhej wa'maH cha' toy'wI'pu', =C2=BB jatlh.<br><br>mujang Qo=
v, jatlh:<br>> I'm happy with nIch for arrows or whatever they are chucki=
ng.<br><br>chonnaQmey "hunting spears" seemed perfect, though I may or may n=
ot have gone overboard with searching and replacing nIch.<br></div></div></d=
iv></blockquote><div><br></div>nIch =3D chonnaQ? Hmm, if they're using chetv=
I'mey, I guess. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div>taH:<br>> The comma looks much better outside those quotes.<br=
><br>My system of Klingon punctuation is far from stable and I'll take all s=
uggestions. Here I'm considering getting rid of the comma altogether, as the=
quotes make the separation clear.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><b=
r></div>nuq bop bomvaD pIj vInop je. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D=
"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> =C2=ABSoHvaD, yap cha'DIchlI'=
, SermaDIn. ghaH po' law' toy'wI'pu'wI' po' rap.<br> <br>Qov:<br>> j=
IHagh. loQ ngor.<br><br>'ach pum 'Iv? HoQwI' pong'a' vay'? ghaytanHa' jay'.<=
br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>HoQwI'? mu'vetlh vIghovbe'.=
</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>&g=
t; chaq yajchu'meH laDwI', bIjatlhnIS <ghaH po' law' wa'maH cha' toy'wI'p=
u'wI' po' rap>.<br><br>maj. vIlaj.<br><br>Qov:<br>> Also in the Englis=
h version that I partially read they were toy'wI''a'pu'. No distinction in<b=
r>> their world?<br><br>It's complicated. </div></div></div></blockquote>=
<div><br></div>'e' vIpIH. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>The Georgian word /mona/ is usually translated "slave=
" but the /q'ma/, or "knight", is a vassal of his lord and therefore technic=
ally a slave as well. (Damn feudalism. Pretty much everyone who's not a lord=
or king is in practice a type of slave.) I did have doubts about whether to=
use -'a', and toy'wI''a' would probably work fine too.<br></div></div></div=
></blockquote><div><br></div>chIch DawIvta'chugh, DawIvchu'ta'. </div><=
div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> qI=
pchu'bogh bachmey qIpHa'bogh bachmey je togh <br>> Hoch chaH; pupbogh De'=
'ej lughchu'bogh lunob.=C2=BB<br><br>Qov:<br>> not voDleHchaj luQapmoHme=
H nep toy'wI'!<br><br>Is that "they never lie to make their emperor succeed"=
, or "they lie to make their emperor never succeed"? :P If they're not loyal=
slaves I guess either is possible!<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><=
br></div>bIlugh, jaS vIghItlhnIS. Damnit, I'm starting to learn the Italian s=
ubjunctive, the first foreign language I've bothered to do that for, because=
the English one is so avoidable, but now I want one in Klingon. </div>=
<div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> w=
amwI'pu'Daj ra' je 'utlh. =C2=ABHatlhDaq pejaH, <br>> Ha'DIbaH tIghIj tlh=
IH 'ej tIHaw'moH,=C2=BB jatlh. =C2=ABnegh yIjaHmoH je 'ej yIghommoH!=C2=BB<b=
r><br>Qov:<br>> He's starting to look like a bit of a git. So colonial.<b=
r><br>Yah, colonialism is basically feudalism tarted up to look a little les=
s like outright slavery. Medieval Georgian society was fiercely feudal but I=
think a Klingon would find it eerily familiar.<br></div></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div>I thing egalitarian societies are a bit of an aberratio=
n, swiftly replaced by dark ages. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"ci=
te"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> tagha' van lopno' jaj 'uQ'a' je,=
'ej QuchchoHpu' Hoch nuv.<br>> po veb,<br><br>Qov:<br>> 'uH luSIQtaHv=
IS wam'a'?<br><br>ghaytan. 'ach loQ 'oy'DI' SuvwI' bepbe'...<br><br>(wot 'oH=
qar'a' {'uH}'e'?)<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>bIlughch=
u'. <'uHtaHvIS wam'a'> jIjatlhnIS. </div><div><br><blockquote typ=
e=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> nargh 'avtanDIl'e'. 'eq, j=
achbogh jajlo' Qa' <br>> rur. wammeH Sargh chIS lIgh ghaH; Doqqu' HIpDaj,=
<br>> 'IH qabDaj, 'ej mIv SuD tuQ; vaQbej chon SutDaj.<br><br>Qov:<br>&g=
t; Screw khaki! That game is gonna KNOW I'm coming.<br><br>:) Hunting at the=
discotheque!<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>baS SuD 'oH'a=
' mIvvetlh'e'?</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"=
><div>jIH:<br>> 'utlh tlhej 'e' tlhob 'avtanDIl.<br><br>Qov:<br>> 'e' t=
lhob? qatlh tlhob. wa'Hu' tlhejchuq 'e' luwuq, qar'a'?<br><br>qarbej. DaH tl=
hobmoHbogh meq vISovbe'. chaq 'utlhDaj vuvtaHmeH 'ej quvmoHtaHmeH neH tlhobn=
IS. 'ach ghaytan vIchoH.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>tl=
hobchugh, tlhob. </div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> SarghDaj'e' tIj je 'utlh,<br><br>Qov:<br>> muH=
aghmoH <tIj>. 'ughqu''a' chon SutDaj? lIt, lIghchoH ghap vIwIv jIH.<br=
><br>Heh. :) I'm doing what I can to translate with my active vocabulary, an=
d tIj was the first thing to come to mind. qaq {lIt}; vIlo'.<br></div></div>=
</div></blockquote><div><br></div>SarghDaq vIten. <giggle></div><div><=
br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> 'ej cho=
n luruchmeH 'ej 'ovmeH nItebHa' mej. <br>> wammeH yotlh luDech wo' nuv la=
w',<br><br>Qov:<br>> Don't these people have xboxes? Dechchugh bong wa' l=
uHoHlaH wamwI'pu'.<br><br>bey'vetlh qaq law' Du' vumtaHghach qaq puS 'e' vIl=
oy...<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>Dajbej wanI'. </=
div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Still not s=
ure I'm happy with Dech. chaq vIchoH.<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div=
><br></div>qev? ghom?</div><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D=
"ltr"><div>(poD vay')<br><br>jIH:<br>> jul tIHmey botchoH lam 'engmey, la=
m 'engmey <br>> puvmoHbogh Sarghmeychaj lemDu', puH lumuptaHvIS.<br><br>Q=
ov:<br>> That's slightly confusing on first read because <br>> the clo=
uds of dirt come a sentence before the <br>> agent. Is there a reason for=
the repetition of <br>> lam 'engmey and not going straight into the rela=
tive clause?<br><br>Other than trying not to be too ambitious with the lengt=
h of my clauses, nope. bIlugh. vIchoHbej:<br><br>jul tIHmey botbogh lam 'eng=
mey'e' lupuvmoHlu'pu', puH lumuptaHvIS Sarghmeychaj lemDu'.<br><br>DamaS'a'?=
<br></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>ghobe', puvmoHwI' DaSo'law=
'mo'. Dachemo' DaQatlhmoH. <br><div><br></div><jul tIHmey botbogh la=
m 'engmey <span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highlig=
ht-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(1=
75, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180,=
0.230469); ">puvmoH Sarghmeychaj lemDu', puH lumuptaHvIS.> vImaS. <=
/span></div><div><span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"-webkit-tap-highl=
ight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba=
(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 18=
0, 0.230469);"><br></span></div><div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div>jIH:<br>> HoHtaH chaH, bachtaH chaH, chon yotlhDaq 'Iw <br>=
> ghaymoHtaH chaH. nIchchaj lubaHta'DI' latlh nIch <br>> luqemtaH toy'=
wI'pu'. tagha' vIHqa'laHbe'qu' Ha'DIbaH QIDta'bogh chaH.<br><br>Qov:<br>>=
Ha'DIbaHmeyvetlh Sop 'e' luHech 'e' vItul.<br><br>Ha'DIbaH lutoghlu'pu'DI',=
Sop 'e' luHechchugh Damerqu'choHlu' 'e' vISuD.<br></div></div></div></block=
quote><div><br></div>mangghom je'laH. nIteb SopnISbe'. </div><div><br><=
/div><div>jIvummeH ghaytan wejvatlh rep vIrI'lu' 'ach bong ghummo' loj=
mIt DaH jIQonglaHbe'. qay'. </div></body></html>=
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