[92765] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] A vague example at last from Monopoly
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Wed Apr 4 18:02:58 2012
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: Steven Boozer <sboozer@uchicago.edu>,
"tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org"
<tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org>
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2012 22:02:31 +0000
In-Reply-To: <C305E6BD33E2654DAE1F8F403247B6A6032091431A58@EVS02.ad.uchicago.edu>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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There's two more examples in paq'batlh:
QIStaq qoD DISDaq
tu''egh qeylIS'e'
DIS veghlu'chugh
pa' Heghpu'bogh nuvpu' qa'pu' tu'lu'
In the heart of Kri'stak,
Kahless finds himself in a cave
Leading to
The world beyond the living
lojmItDaj veghta'DI' jubbe'wI'
yInqa'meH chegh 'e' botnIS qotar
qeylIS HoHmeH qotar qeylIS SamnIS
Still, Kotar cannot let a mortal
Pass his gates and return alive,
Kahless must be hunted down and killed.
On a related note, paq'batlh also contains a use of juS ("overtake, pass"):
ghIq SIqralDaq
molor HoS waw' lupawmeH
bIQtIq HeH juS SuvwI' ghom
The band of warriors then went
Past the shore to the river Skral,
To Molor's seat of power.
> Or perhaps the Klingons =96 or their version of the Universal
> Translator! - simply translated the Federation Standard name
> literally, recognizing that =93dominion=94 is an actual word.
Indeed; I'd personally love to have a more distinct word for the Dominion, =
since it'd make it a bit easier to talk about, but it does make some sense =
that they'd do it that way if their first introduction to the Dominion was =
from eavesdropping on Federation subspace chatter.
What bothers me slightly is that at the time of KGT, which was published at=
around the time of DS9's sixth season premier, {ngup} was only used as a s=
lang term for authorities; it really means "cape". As such, calling such an=
important body {ngup'a'} seems a bit inappropriate...
...unless, of course, the Founder/Vorta/whatever name for the Dominion real=
ly means "the great cape"; a poetic metaphor for a large, unbroken area, in=
which any hole can be patched, but which will fall to the ground and crink=
le if separated from the collar (representing the Founders).
This is, of course, terribly far-fetched speculation, but I rather like it =
:P
________________________________
From: Steven Boozer [sboozer@uchicago.edu]
Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2012 22:50
To: tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] A vague example at last from Monopoly
Or perhaps the Klingons =96 or their version of the Universal Translator! -=
simply translated the Federation Standard name literally, recognizing that=
=93dominion=94 is an actual word.
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
From: lojmIt tI'wI'nuv [mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com]
The thing that bothers me about definitions like "Dominion" is that we're d=
oing in Klingon the same thing we're doing in English. Likely, The Dominion=
doesn't call itself "The Dominion". It's a proper name we made up, based o=
n a common noun that describes the thing we've named.
So, when we put in definitions like this, we really need to recognize that =
{ngup'a'} has two meanings. One is the proper noun and the other is the com=
mon noun. It's like {matlh}. It's the verb "be loyal" and it's the proper n=
ame Maltz.
... or maybe Klingon doesn't have a proper name for The Dominion. They are =
just one of many "major authorities" and when we translate to English, whic=
h DOES have a proper noun for this group, we translate it as "The Dominion"=
.
On Apr 4, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:
De'vID:
I've photographed all the cards and put them online. You should be able to =
access them at this link:
https://picasaweb.google.com/117851035855826465807/KlingonMonopoly?authkey=
=3DGv1sRgCJSd-dThzIbgpAE
Another new word I noticed (has it been mentioned here before?) is {ngup'a'=
} "Dominion":
ngup'a' Duj Dajon.
Commandeer Dominion vessel. MKE
--
Voragh
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons
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<div style=3D"direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: =
10pt;">There's two more examples in paq'batlh:<br>
<br>
QIStaq qoD DISDaq<br>
tu''egh qeylIS'e'<br>
DIS veghlu'chugh<br>
pa' Heghpu'bogh nuvpu' qa'pu' tu'lu'<br>
<br>
In the heart of Kri'stak,<br>
Kahless finds himself in a cave<br>
Leading to<br>
The world beyond the living<br>
<br>
<br>
lojmItDaj veghta'DI' jubbe'wI'<br>
yInqa'meH chegh 'e' botnIS qotar<br>
qeylIS HoHmeH qotar qeylIS SamnIS<br>
<br>
Still, Kotar cannot let a mortal<br>
Pass his gates and return alive,<br>
Kahless must be hunted down and killed.<br>
<br>
<br>
On a related note, paq'batlh also contains a use of juS ("overtake, pa=
ss"):<br>
<br>
ghIq SIqralDaq<br>
molor HoS waw' lupawmeH<br>
bIQtIq HeH juS SuvwI' ghom<br>
<br>
The band of warriors then went<br>
Past the shore to the river Skral,<br>
To Molor's seat of power.<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"font=
-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);=
">></span></font><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; colo=
r: rgb(31, 73, 125);">
</span></font><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125);">Or perhaps the Klingons =96 or their version of the Univers=
al<br>
> Translator! - simply translated the Federation Standard name<br>
</span></font><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125);">>
</span></font><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D"2"><span=
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; color: rgb=
(31, 73, 125);">literally, recognizing that =93dominion=94 is an actual wor=
d.</span></font><br>
<br>
Indeed; I'd personally love to have a more distinct word for the Dominion, =
since it'd make it a bit easier to talk about, but it does make some sense =
that they'd do it that way if their first introduction to the Dominion was =
from eavesdropping on Federation
subspace chatter.<br>
<br>
What bothers me slightly is that at the time of KGT, which was published at=
around the time of DS9's sixth season premier, {ngup} was only used as a s=
lang term for authorities; it really means "cape". As such, calli=
ng such an important body {ngup'a'} seems
a bit inappropriate...<br>
<br>
...unless, of course, the Founder/Vorta/whatever name for the Dominion real=
ly means "the great cape"; a poetic metaphor for a large, unbroke=
n area, in which any hole can be patched, but which will fall to the ground=
and crinkle if separated from the collar
(representing the Founders).<br>
This is, of course, terribly far-fetched speculation, but I rather like it =
:P<br>
<br>
<div style=3D"font-family: Times New Roman; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size:=
16px;">
<hr tabindex=3D"-1">
<div style=3D"direction: ltr;" id=3D"divRpF564911"><font color=3D"#000000" =
face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><b>From:</b> Steven Boozer [sboozer@uchicago.edu=
]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, April 04, 2012 22:50<br>
<b>To:</b> tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Tlhingan-hol] A vague example at last from Monopoly<br=
>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D=
"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; c=
olor: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Or perhaps the Klingons =96 or their version of th=
e Universal Translator! - simply translated the Federation
Standard name literally, recognizing that =93dominion=94 is an actual word=
.</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D=
"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; c=
olor: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">--</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">Voragh</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);">Ca'Non Master of the Klingons</span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Consolas" size=3D"2"=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: Consolas; color: rgb(31, 73=
, 125);"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font color=3D"#1f497d" face=3D"Courier New" size=3D=
"2"><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: "Courier New"; c=
olor: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></font></p>
<div style=3D"border-width: medium medium medium 1.5pt; border-style: none =
none none solid; border-color: -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color -moz=
-use-text-color blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none non=
e; border-color: rgb(181, 196, 223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color=
; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif"; fon=
t-weight: bold;">From:</span></font></b><font face=3D"Tahoma" size=3D"2"><s=
pan style=3D"font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Tahoma","sans-se=
rif";">
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv [mailto:lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com] <br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">The thing that bothers me about definitions like &qu=
ot;Dominion" is that we're doing in Klingon the same thing we're doing=
in English. Likely, The Dominion doesn't call itself
"The Dominion". It's a proper name we made up, based on a common=
noun that describes the thing we've named.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">So, when we put in definitions like this, we really =
need to recognize that {ngup'a'} has two meanings. One is the proper noun a=
nd the other is the common noun. It's like
{matlh}. It's the verb "be loyal" and it's the proper name Maltz=
.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">... or maybe Klingon doesn't have a proper name for =
The Dominion. They are just one of many "major authorities" and w=
hen we translate to English, which DOES have a proper
noun for this group, we translate it as "The Dominion".</span></=
font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;">On Apr 4, 2012, at 3:26 PM, Steven Boozer wrote:</sp=
an></font></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left: 5.25pt;"><font face=3D"Times N=
ew Roman" size=3D"3"><span style=3D"font-size: 12pt;">De'vID: <br>
I've photographed all the cards and put them online. You should be able to =
access them at this link:<font color=3D"#1f497d"><span style=3D"color: rgb(=
31, 73, 125);"></span></font></span></font></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><a href=3D"https://picasaweb.google.com/117851035855=
826465807/KlingonMonopoly?authkey=3DGv1sRgCJSd-dThzIbgpAE" target=3D"_blank=
">https://picasaweb.google.com/117851035855826465807/KlingonMonopoly?authke=
y=3DGv1sRgCJSd-dThzIbgpAE</a>
</span></font></p>
</blockquote>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"><br>
Another new word I noticed (has it been mentioned here before?) is {ngup'a'=
} "Dominion":<br>
<br>
<font color=3D"#1f497d"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">&nbs=
p; </span></font>ngup'a' Duj Dajon.<br>
<font color=3D"#1f497d"><span style=3D"color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </s=
pan></font> Commandeer Dominion vessel. MKE<br>
--<br>
Voragh<br>
Ca'Non Master of the Klingons<br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3"><span styl=
e=3D"font-size: 12pt;"> </span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
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