[90310] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - Countries
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Adm qe'San)
Sat Oct 29 16:13:06 2011
From: "Adm qe'San" <qeSan@btinternet.com>
To: "'KLI'" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <SNT106-W6444B070D702C958F060F6A1D00@phx.gbl>
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 21:12:45 +0100
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
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Firstly I should add that the course was based on a template so that any
language translated into it will be available in any of the other =
languages
already translated. So no, there is no translation for Scotland, Wales =
or
Ireland but then there=92s also no England and if we go further back in
history Wessex or any of the other kingdoms that became England and then
through various other combinations to today=92s United Kingdom of Great
Britain and Northern Ireland. You=92ve also got to remember that =
people in
the UK rarely referred to themselves as from the UK (at least not in my
experience). Even though GB officially only refers to the mainland we =
tended
to call ourselves British or by the country part we were from. But UK =
was
what was on the template.=20
=20
So anyway the choice of countries and was not down to Marc or myself. =
For
reference when I first considered the countries I was directed to the =
list
Qov had created for her own use and thought that was the way to go =
rather
than just end up with a transliterated list of the English. Marc also
agreed. =20
=20
We also had UK already in canon wo=92 tay=92 which was on my original =
list.
When I queried the new translation this is Marc=92s reply:
=20
--quote from Marc (included with permission)
Finally, for UK -- You're right. I had forgotten about wo' tay'. I =
think,
though, for the CD, we should stick with tuqjIjQa'. If someone should =
ask
why there are two names for the same country, I'd say that (1) it's not
impossible for one country to be referred to (especially in a
language/culture not of that country) by more than one name
(Holland/Netherlands, for example), and (2) wo' tay' is an older name --
perhaps the Klingons who gave it that name were thinking of the British
Empire.
=20
Personally I love the new translation, tuqjIjQa=92, as it I feel it =
expresses
more accurately the origins.
=20
qe=92San
=20
=20
=20
From: Josh Badgley [mailto:joshbadgley@hotmail.com]=20
Sent: 29 October 2011 18:07
To: nahqun@gmail.com; KLI
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - Countries
=20
It's a weird situation, because basically nobody speaks the old =
languages in
Ireland or Scotland anymore, and yet they're important parts of the =
culture.
Assuming a "real" Klingon went to Scotland, they aren't likely to =
stumble
across a Gaelic speaker, and if they wanted to know the name of the =
country,
they'd probably be told "Scotland" with a thick burr. So "Suqo'lan" =
maybe?=20
The New Zealand thing throws me not because they didn't use the Maori =
name,
but because "New" does not translate to "nu"...I get the "SIylan" part
though..
-- jhb
=20
_____ =20
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2011 12:57:40 -0400
From: nahqun@gmail.com
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - Countries
Yes, New Zealand does stick out.
The Maori name is Aotearoa.
I wonder what the reasoning was.
Yes, it might help if I post the native names for Ireland and Scotland.
Ireland: =C9ire (if the special character gets scrambled, that's: Eire)
Scotland: Alba
~naHQun
~Michael Roney, Jr.
Professional Klingon translator
webOS developer
-- Sent from my HP Pre=B3
=20
_____ =20
_______________________________________________ Tlhingan-hol mailing =
list
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
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vlink=3Dpurple><div class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Firstly I =
should add that the course was based on a template so that any language =
translated into it will be available in any of the other languages =
already translated. So no, there is no translation for =
Scotland, Wales or Ireland but then there’s also no England and if =
we go further back in history Wessex or any of the other kingdoms that =
became England and then through various other combinations to =
today’s United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern =
Ireland. You’ve also got to remember that people in =
the UK rarely referred to themselves as from the UK (at least not in my =
experience). Even though GB officially only refers to the mainland we =
tended to call ourselves British or by the country part we were from. =
But UK was what was on the template. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>So anyway the =
choice of countries and was not down to Marc or myself. For reference =
when I first considered the countries I was directed to the list Qov had =
created for her own use and thought that was the way to go rather than =
just end up with a transliterated list of the English. Marc also =
agreed. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>We also had =
UK already in canon wo’ tay’ which was on my =
original list. When I queried the new translation this is =
Marc’s reply:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>--quote from =
Marc (included with permission)<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal>Finally, for UK -- You're right. I had forgotten =
about <b>wo' tay'</b>. I think, though, for the CD, we should =
stick with <b>tuqjIjQa'</b>. If someone should ask why there are =
two names for the same country, I'd say that (1) it's not impossible for =
one country to be referred to (especially in a language/culture not of =
that country) by more than one name (Holland/Netherlands, for =
example), and (2) <b>wo' tay'</b> is an older name -- perhaps the =
Klingons who gave it that name were thinking of the British =
Empire.<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Personally I =
love the new translation, </span><b>tuqjIjQa’, </b><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>as it I feel =
it expresses more accurately the origins.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>qe’San<o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><a =
name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497=
D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt'><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF =
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span =
lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span>=
</b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Josh =
Badgley [mailto:joshbadgley@hotmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> 29 October =
2011 18:07<br><b>To:</b> nahqun@gmail.com; KLI<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: =
[Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words - =
Countries<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'>It's a weird =
situation, because basically nobody speaks the old languages in Ireland =
or Scotland anymore, and yet they're important parts of the =
culture. Assuming a "real" Klingon went to Scotland, =
they aren't likely to stumble across a Gaelic speaker, and if they =
wanted to know the name of the country, they'd probably be told =
"Scotland" with a thick burr. So "Suqo'lan" =
maybe? </span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br></span><=
span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>The New =
Zealand thing throws me not because they didn't use the Maori name, but =
because "New" does not translate to "nu"...I get the =
"SIylan" part though..<br><br id=3DFontBreak></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br><br></sp=
an><span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New"'><br>-- =
jhb<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br> <o=
:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dcenter =
style=3D'text-align:center'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><hr =
size=3D2 width=3D"100%" align=3Dcenter></span></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>Date: Sat, =
29 Oct 2011 12:57:40 -0400<br>From: nahqun@gmail.com<br>To: =
tlhingan-hol@kli.org<br>Subject: Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Eurotalk - New Words =
- Countries<br><br>Yes, New Zealand does stick out.<br>The Maori name is =
Aotearoa.<br>I wonder what the reasoning was.<br><br><br>Yes, it might =
help if I post the native names for Ireland and =
Scotland.<br><br>Ireland: =C9ire (if the special character gets =
scrambled, that's: Eire)<br>Scotland: =
Alba<br><br>~naHQun<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif"'><br><br></s=
pan><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999'>=
~Michael Roney, Jr.<br>Professional Klingon translator<br>webOS =
developer<br><br>-- Sent from my HP Pre=B3<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:navy'>=
<o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:navy'>=
<hr size=3D2 width=3D"75%" align=3Dleft></span></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Verdana","sans-serif";color:navy'>=
<br><br></span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'><br>________=
_______________________________________ Tlhingan-hol mailing list =
Tlhingan-hol@stodi.digitalkingdom.org =
http://stodi.digitalkingdom.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<o:p></o:p><=
/span></p></div></div></div></div></body></html>
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