[88206] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Klingon in other languages
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (lojmIt tI'wI' nuv)
Tue Aug 24 14:47:03 2010
From: "lojmIt tI'wI' nuv" <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <769742.27403.qm@web80503.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 14:41:15 -0400
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
tlhIngan Hol wIqelqa'laH'a' qoj wIlo'qa'laH'a'? loQ Qu'maj wIqawHa'law'.
pItlh.
lojmIt tI'wI' nuv
On Aug 24, 2010, at 2:24 PM, Russ Perry, Jr. wrote:
> On Tue, 8/24/10, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The Japanese whispering of "u" (and sometimes "i") can
>> occur after any unvoiced consonant (k, t, p, s). The rules
>> are probably more complicated than that, but it definitely
>> occurs in non-final positions.
>
> Well, I did say "predominantly" :-), though I admit even that
> may suggest that it happens less often than it does...
>
> My point is that the vowel is "swallowed", but not omitted
> outright, so when Terrence presented "kringon-go", it may
> have implied to those who don't have experience with Japanese
> to think that they would have no trouble pronouncing the "kr"
> like it was in "Kris Kringle"; but more to the point, there's
> still a bit of a break between the consonants... I mean,
> "sukoshi" can have the "u" and the "i" swallowed, but it
> sounds more like "s-kosh-" (with the "-" representing a
> noticeable pause) than "skosh" as an English speaker would
> pronounce its borrowed word. At least, they sounded different
> to me; perhaps I wasn't listening to nihongo speakers talking
> fast enough though...
>
>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Russ Perry, Jr. <russperryjr@sbcglobal.net
>>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Tue, 8/24/10, Terrence Donnelly wrote:
>>>> Also, since the 'u' sound very frequently drops
>> out in spoken
>>>> Japanese, this is probably pronounced
>> "kringon-go".
>>>
>>> I'm pretty sure the u-dropping predominantly occurs
>> only in word-
>>> final positions, so "gozaimasu" will sound like
>> "gozaimas", but
>>> "kuringon-go" will still sound like "kuringon-go".
>>>
>>> At the very least, the "kr" in what you wrote would
>> NOT be the "kr"
>>> consonant cluster, but more like "k'r" (where the "'"
>> is a break in
>>> the pronunciation, not the tlhIngan Hol glottal
>> stop).
>>>
>>>> On Tue, 8/24/10, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> Since Klingons were around long
>>>>> before tlhIngan Hol, the Japanese word
>>>>> ("kuringon-go") is almost certainly from the
>> English
>>>>> "Klingon" rather than
>>>>> Klingon "tlhIngan".
>>>>> lay'tel SIvten
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Fiat Knox
>> <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In Japanese it would be pronounced
>> phonetically
>>>> and
>>>>> written in katakana - a
>>>>>> character set which, like kanji, I fear
>> I cannot
>>>>> reproduce here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The "tlh" of "tlhIngan Hol" is not
>> pronounceable
>>>> as
>>>>> such in Japanese.
>>>>>> Instead, Japanese uses the closest
>> syllables, in
>>>> this
>>>>> case "ku ri na n."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The word for "language" is "go".
>>>>>>
>>>>>> kurinango - Klingon language
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Wish I could show you the kana and
>> kanji.
>
> --
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