[88205] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: Klingon in other languages
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Russ Perry, Jr.)
Tue Aug 24 14:32:02 2010
Date: Tue, 24 Aug 2010 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Russ Perry, Jr." <russperryjr@sbcglobal.net>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
In-Reply-To: <AANLkTikphnCb15ZJQEhU2X6U1TKkqWYjX==B6hUnUOH8@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-to: tlhingan-hol-bounce@kli.org
Reply-to: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
On Tue, 8/24/10, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com> wrote:
> The Japanese whispering of "u" (and sometimes "i") can
> occur after any unvoiced consonant (k, t, p, s). The rules
> are probably more complicated than that, but it definitely
> occurs in non-final positions.
Well, I did say "predominantly" :-), though I admit even that
may suggest that it happens less often than it does...
My point is that the vowel is "swallowed", but not omitted
outright, so when Terrence presented "kringon-go", it may
have implied to those who don't have experience with Japanese
to think that they would have no trouble pronouncing the "kr"
like it was in "Kris Kringle"; but more to the point, there's
still a bit of a break between the consonants... I mean,
"sukoshi" can have the "u" and the "i" swallowed, but it
sounds more like "s-kosh-" (with the "-" representing a
noticeable pause) than "skosh" as an English speaker would
pronounce its borrowed word. At least, they sounded different
to me; perhaps I wasn't listening to nihongo speakers talking
fast enough though...
> On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 12:54 PM, Russ Perry, Jr. <russperryjr@sbcglobal.net
> > wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 8/24/10, Terrence Donnelly wrote:
> > > Also, since the 'u' sound very frequently drops
> out in spoken
> > > Japanese, this is probably pronounced
> "kringon-go".
> >
> > I'm pretty sure the u-dropping predominantly occurs
> only in word-
> > final positions, so "gozaimasu" will sound like
> "gozaimas", but
> > "kuringon-go" will still sound like "kuringon-go".
> >
> > At the very least, the "kr" in what you wrote would
> NOT be the "kr"
> > consonant cluster, but more like "k'r" (where the "'"
> is a break in
> > the pronunciation, not the tlhIngan Hol glottal
> stop).
> >
> > > On Tue, 8/24/10, MorphemeAddict <lytlesw@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > > Since Klingons were around long
> > > > before tlhIngan Hol, the Japanese word
> > > > ("kuringon-go") is almost certainly from the
> English
> > > > "Klingon" rather than
> > > > Klingon "tlhIngan".
> > > > lay'tel SIvten
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Aug 24, 2010 at 2:25 AM, Fiat Knox
> <fiat_knox@yahoo.co.uk>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In Japanese it would be pronounced
> phonetically
> > > and
> > > > written in katakana - a
> > > > > character set which, like kanji, I fear
> I cannot
> > > > reproduce here.
> > > > >
> > > > > The "tlh" of "tlhIngan Hol" is not
> pronounceable
> > > as
> > > > such in Japanese.
> > > > > Instead, Japanese uses the closest
> syllables, in
> > > this
> > > > case "ku ri na n."
> > > > >
> > > > > The word for "language" is "go".
> > > > >
> > > > > kurinango - Klingon language
> > > > >
> > > > > Wish I could show you the kana and
> kanji.
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