[2682] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: {-ghach}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU)
Fri Jan 21 01:03:01 1994
Reply-To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
From: nsn@vis.mu.OZ.AU (Nick NICHOLAS)
To: "Klingon Language List" <tlhIngan-Hol@klingon.East.Sun.COM>
Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 13:59:14 EDT
In-Reply-To: <9401201944.tn273872@aol.com>; from "angghal@aol.com" at Jan 20, 9
4 7:44 pm
batlh choja', angghal@aol.com quv:
Oh, before I start: I'm having a look at Hixkaryana, our sister language
which has OVS. So far, it doesn't look that similar to Klingon (indirect
objects follow S, for example, although OSV *is* an allowed emphatic form);
but its use of interjections is curiously reminiscent of clipped Klingon.
More news as I read more.
=In his follow up, Nick wondered aloud what effect such differences of opinion
=will have on the language as a whole. This to me sounds like the mutterings
=of someone trying to foment revolution.
A bit dramatic, perhaps, but a familiar sentiment to me: it permeates
Esperanto. In fact, the kinds of changes in Klingon are exactly the kind
of changes we've seen in Esperanto this past century. The language was
first defined with its equivalent of the TKD --- it was about that size, too
--- and there is huge pressure for the language to remain within that
publication's constraints; which it has. Within those constraints, though,
in the fine print, little changes *have* happened --- in some words' meanings,
or in the greater exploitation of what is latent in the grammar. A form
like "rekomendindas" or "laboremo", as opposed to "estas rekomendinda" and
"laboremeco" simply did not occur 70 years ago; when queried about them,
Zamenhof hesitantly said they *might* become good Esperanto, but not any
time soon. laboremeco is today extinct; rekomendindas is very much on the
ride. The point is that both forms are allowed under the initial definition;
but they probably weren't what Zamenhof envisaged. And there are many more
such examples.
This is what I claimed is already happening with Klingon. It seems clear
from the appendix that, when inventing -ghach, Okrand did not have -taHghach
or -pu'ghach, let alone -qu'ghach, in mind. It seems just as clear to me
that -taHghach and the like will stick; people feel a need for them, and
there is nothing in the grammar that expressly forbids them. I don't think
of this as revolution; it's just the kind of tightly controlled evolution
Esperanto goes through. Both languages, after all, being artificial, could
easily undergo desructive revolution, and both have a lot invested in not
undergoing such a cataclysm.
But little things, allowed (I believe) under the charter, will sneak through.
Mark's Esperantism, wej jaj nI'taH leng (the journey is three days long)
seems such an example to me.
You're right in pointing out the tension between us being linguists and
users of Klingon. It is here, I feel, that the Klingon myth collides with
Terran reality. If we were exclusively linguists of Klingon, not a word of
Hol'a' would be written by any of us. Several people here have taken that
very decision, and it's the reason why I was silent here from June to October.
As soon as we express ourselves in Klingon, we make decisions. We must. And
that is already exceeding the linguist's charter. It's what Krankor does
for a living, after all; his use of -'e' in relative clauses makes sense,
but is not attested in Okrand corpus, has moved Klingon towards English
typologically, and we have no reason to believe it's what a Klingonist
would use to disambiguate her clause --- if she'd use anything at all.
And I'm not attacking it. In fact, I'm using it obligatorily, which is
in a way being more catholic than the pope (and as I'll write eventually,
it does cause new problems). But I would point out that it seems impossible
to write anything but "Cat Sat on the Mat" Klingon, without making such
extrapolations. And when that happens, then in a hesitant, self-conscious
way, Klingon joins the ranks of human languages --- curiously enough!
This is, I realise, controversial; it's been argued here before. I welcome
others' opinions on the matter.
=to spend a week's vacation trapped at home (Nick, I envy you being in
=Australia at this moment).
You needn't. We've had two months of alleged summer, and three days in all that
time where the temperature got above 30 C (80 F?). And I won't even mention
the rain...
=HItujmoH,
Is this akin to "come on baby light my fire"? ;)
== == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
Nick Nicholas, Breather {le'o ko na rivbi fi'inai palci je tolvri danlu}
nsn@krang.vis.mu.oz.au -- Miguel Cervantes tr. Jorge LLambias
