[111706] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Klingon Word of the Day: puqloD
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (nIqolay Q)
Wed Oct 25 07:40:44 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CABDLMbVX9fwukp5XFDPMG3dT7Oo6UpUYQQBL5FmSEKb410RxLQ@mail.gmail.com>
From: nIqolay Q <niqolay0@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 10:30:43 -0400
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
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On Tue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:44 AM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller <esperantist@gmail.=
com> wrote:
> I tried reading it without looking at the translation and I get: "For my
> son to act like a warrior, I taught him wrong; I realize that now." which
> is what I think the sentence indicated.
>
*-meH* seems to be used to mean both "in order to verb" and "for the
purposes of verbing". It might just be a context thing. The intended
meaning of *Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam* is "This day is good, for the purposes
of someone dying", not "This day is good, and the reason it is good is so
that someone dies."
> Another example:
> {qanuQmeH jIjatlhbe'.}
>
> This is ambiguous, in my opinion, because the scope of the negation is no=
t
> clear. There are two readings:
> a) I didn't say anything. I did that, because I want to annoy you. (i.e.
> you would have prefered I say something)
> b) I didn't say anything that could annoy you. (i.e. I didn't insult or
> bother you)
>
I would probably interpret this as a), since I don't think the negation on
the *jatlh* can include the *-meH* clause in its scope. If I wanted to say
b), I would just use a relative clause: *DunuQlaHbogh vay' vIjatlhbe'*
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On T=
ue, Oct 24, 2017 at 6:44 AM, Andr=C3=A9 M=C3=BCller <span dir=3D"ltr"><<=
a href=3D"mailto:esperantist@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">esperantist@gmail=
.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"ma=
rgin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"lt=
r"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>I tried reading it without looking at=
the translation and I get: "For my son to act like a warrior, I taugh=
t him wrong; I realize that now." which is what I think the sentence i=
ndicated.<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote><=
div><br></div><div><b>-meH</b> seems to be used to mean both "in order=
to verb" and "for the purposes of verbing". It might just b=
e a context thing. The intended meaning of <b>Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam</b>=
is "This day is good, for the purposes of someone dying", not &q=
uot;This day is good, and the reason it is good is so that someone dies.&qu=
ot;<br></div><div>=C2=A0<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=
=3D"ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Another example:<br>{qanuQmeH jIjatlhbe&#=
39;.}<br><br></div>This is ambiguous, in my opinion, because the scope of t=
he negation is not clear. There are two readings:<br></div>a) I didn't =
say anything. I did that, because I want to annoy you. (i.e. you would have=
prefered I say something)<br></div>b) I didn't say anything that could=
annoy you. (i.e. I didn't insult or bother you)<br></div></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>I would probably interpret this as a), sinc=
e I don't think the negation on the <b>jatlh</b> can include the <b>-me=
H</b> clause in its scope. If I wanted to say b), I would just use a relati=
ve clause: <b>DunuQlaHbogh vay' vIjatlhbe'</b><br></div></div></div=
></div>
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