[110928] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] qaStaHvIS ram timestamp
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Mon Sep 11 02:01:25 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2017 15:24:04 -0400
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On 9/10/2017 3:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> nIqolay Q:
> > {qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je}
> > {juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je qaStaHvIS ram}
>
> I understand these two; but could we write too {juHDaq qaStaHvIS ram
> maHaD maH vIghro' je} ?
What we call a time stamp in Klingon studies is not /any/ expression
that tells you when something happens; it is only a noun or noun phrase
that does so. *qaStaHvIS ram* is not a noun phrase, so it is not a time
stamp. If it were, then /every/ *-vIS* and *-DI' *clause would be a time
stamp.
Here's how things are ordered in a normal complex Klingon sentence (for
"noun phrase" read "noun or noun phrase"):
[subordinate and purpose clauses] [time stamps] [adverbials]
[syntactic noun phrases] [object noun phrase] [verb] [subject noun
phrase ] [subordinate clauses]
This is not absolute; you might see Klingon sentences violating this
order from time to time. I haven't included possible uses of *neH, je,*
or *jay',* or sentences-as-object, sentence conjunctions, comparatives,
or copulas. I haven't included special rules changing sentence order
like putting adverbials after a noun phrase with *-'e'* (if that really
is a change in sentence order). But in general, this is what you build
around the basic OVS structure.
So you can't write your sentence your way. You've got a subordinate
clause between a syntactic noun and the verb, and that's not allowed.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/10/2017 3:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cLpgDd_t_SZNne+azNC-0yvOsbqH2Yq-SoDWMGSRiKiKw@mail.gmail.com">
<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px" dir="auto"><span
style="font-size:13.696px">nIqolay Q:</span></div>
<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px" dir="auto"><span
style="font-size:13.696px">> {qaStaHvIS ram juHDaq maHaD
maH vIghro' je}</span><br>
</div>
<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px" dir="auto"><span
style="font-size:13.696px">> {juHDaq maHaD maH vIghro' je
qaStaHvIS ram}</span></div>
<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px" dir="auto"><span
style="font-size:13.696px"><br>
</span></div>
<div style="font-family:sans-serif;font-size:13.696px" dir="auto">I
understand these two; but could we write too {j<span
style="font-size:13.696px">uHDaq qaStaHvIS ram maHaD maH
vIghro' je} ?</span></div>
</blockquote>
<p>What we call a time stamp in Klingon studies is not <i>any</i>
expression that tells you when something happens; it is only a
noun or noun phrase that does so. <b>qaStaHvIS ram</b> is not a
noun phrase, so it is not a time stamp. If it were, then <i>every</i>
<b>-vIS</b> and <b>-DI' </b>clause would be a time stamp.</p>
<p>Here's how things are ordered in a normal complex Klingon
sentence (for "noun phrase" read "noun or noun phrase"):</p>
<blockquote>
<p>[subordinate and purpose clauses] [time stamps] [adverbials]
[syntactic noun phrases] [object noun phrase] [verb] [subject
noun phrase ] [subordinate clauses]</p>
</blockquote>
<p>This is not absolute; you might see Klingon sentences violating
this order from time to time. I haven't included possible uses of
<b>neH, je,</b> or <b>jay',</b> or sentences-as-object, sentence
conjunctions, comparatives, or copulas. I haven't included special
rules changing sentence order like putting adverbials after a noun
phrase with <b>-'e'</b> (if that really is a change in sentence
order). But in general, this is what you build around the basic
OVS structure.</p>
<p>So you can't write your sentence your way. You've got a
subordinate clause between a syntactic noun and the verb, and
that's not allowed.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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