[110903] in tlhIngan-Hol
[tlhIngan Hol] The grammatical number of NOUN + 'ar
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Felix Malmenbeck)
Fri Sep 8 15:36:16 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: Felix Malmenbeck <felixm@kth.se>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2017 11:15:59 +0000
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
--===============8929794255596324105==
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_15048693593203090kthse_"
--_000_15048693593203090kthse_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
In TKD =A76.4, this is written of the word 'ar:
------------
Finally, 'ar how many? how much? follows the noun to which it refers. It ca=
n never follow a noun with a plural suffix
(-pu', -mey, -Du'; see section 3.3.2).
------------
I've always taken this to mean that a noun followed by 'ar is grammatically=
singular, and so we must say, for example, qachvam Dab nuv 'ar?, rather th=
an *qachvam luDab nuv 'ar?*.
However, it now strikes me that there is another possible interpretation, n=
amely that while the noun followed by 'ar is never marked with a plural suf=
fix, it could still be considered grammatically plural, and thus allow for =
sentences such as *qachvam luDab nuv 'ar?*.
Unfortunately, the canonical example sentences we have using 'ar don't real=
ly shine much of a light on this. The only example I've found that uses a =
number-specific verb prefix to go with the NOUN + 'ar construct is nIn 'ar =
wIghaj. ("How much fuel do we have?") However, this example is of limited u=
se, as the quantity of nIn ("fuel") is a presumably continuous, rather than=
discrete; while we would normally treat nIn law' and nIn puS as singular, =
we would treat nuv law' and nuv puS as plural.
Can anybody think of any examples that could help to resolve this matter? O=
r is there an unofficial but commonly accepted answer?
--_000_15048693593203090kthse_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-=
1">
<style type=3D"text/css" style=3D"display:none"><!--P{margin-top:0;margin-b=
ottom:0;} p=0A=
{margin-top:0;=0A=
margin-bottom:0}--></style>
</head>
<body dir=3D"ltr" style=3D"font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#F=
FFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>In TKD =A76.4, this is written of the word <strong>'ar</strong>:</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>------------<br>
</p>
<pre><span style=3D"font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Finally=
, <strong>'ar</strong> <em>how many? how much?</em> follows the noun to whi=
ch it refers. It can never follow a noun with a plural suffix=0A=
(-<strong>pu</strong><strong>'</strong>, -<strong>mey</strong>, -<strong>Du=
'</strong>; see section 3.3.2).</span></pre>
<p>------------</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>I've always taken this to mean that a noun followed by <strong>'ar</stro=
ng> is grammatically singular, and so we must say, for example,
<strong>qachvam</strong><strong> Dab nuv 'ar?</strong>, rather than *q=
achvam luDab nuv 'ar?*.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>However, it now strikes me that there is another possible interpretation=
, namely that while the noun followed by
<strong>'ar</strong> is never marked with a plural <em>suffi=
x</em>, it could still be considered grammatically plural, and thus al=
low for sentences such as *qachvam luDab nuv 'ar?*.<br>
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Unfortunately, the canonical example sentences we have using <stron=
g>'ar</strong> don't really shine much of a light on this. The only&nb=
sp;example I've found that uses a number-specific verb prefix to go w=
ith the NOUN +
<strong>'ar</strong> construct is <strong>nIn 'ar wIghaj.</strong>&nbs=
p;("How much fuel do we have?") However, this example is of limit=
ed use, as the quantity of
<strong>nIn</strong> ("fuel") is a presumably continuous, ra=
ther than discrete; while we would normally treat
<strong>nIn law'</strong> and <strong>nIn puS</strong> as singula=
r, we would treat
<strong>nuv law'</strong> and <strong>nuv puS</strong> as plural.=
</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Can anybody think of any examples that could help to resolve this matter=
? Or is there an unofficial but commonly accepted answer?<br>
</p>
</body>
</html>
--_000_15048693593203090kthse_--
--===============8929794255596324105==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============8929794255596324105==--
