[110902] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] ngIq (WAS: vengDaq, vengmeyDaq je)
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (ghunchu'wI' 'utlh)
Fri Sep 8 05:26:17 2017
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
From: ghunchu'wI' 'utlh <qunchuy@alcaco.net>
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 15:57:12 -0400
In-Reply-To: <CAFgJOr3xYAL=6VcGT6ru0=bvccp_o5=xCGOGhdCu3PK8uQgYKA@mail.gmail.com>
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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On Sep 6, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.com> wro=
te:
>=20
> Like I said, I don't have the full context of paq'batlh available to me, b=
ut we can do a simple experiment:
> Take one of the canon {ngIq} sentences.
> Come up with some context to make it obvious that {ngIq} means "all of the=
m, one by one".
> Come up with some different context to make it obvious that {ngIq} means "=
just one thing out of a collection of things".
nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
By itself, it is ambiguous. Such is often the case with sentences plucked fr=
om their surroundings.
The context in the paq'batlh is that of multiple scouts:
joqwI''e' cha'bogh qeylIS luDel 'e' ra' molor
"He asks them which banner Kahless marches under."
Even if you didn't know that several got sent earlier, {lu-} in {luDel} make=
s it clear that Molor's scouts are not a single person. Obviously it was mor=
e than one scout returning, each alone:
nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
"One by one Molor's scouts return."
Consider if the context were instead something like this:
Heghpu' HochHom ghoqwI'. ratlh wa' neH. ghaH po' law' Hoch ghaH puS.
"All the scouts are dead save one, the most skilled of all."
That would make it explicit that only the single scout made it back:
nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'
"Molor's sole scout returns alone."
> I say that's impossible, unless the context pretty much defines {ngIq} for=
you.
You did ask for that context, so you don't have a reason to complain if it i=
s provided.
-- ghunchu'wI'
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div>On Sep 6, 2017, at 3:19 PM, Brent Kesl=
er <<a href=3D"mailto:brent.of.all.people@gmail.com">brent.of.all.people@=
gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><div><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>=
<div>Like I said, I don't have the full context of paq'batlh available to me=
, but we can do a simple experiment:</div><div><ol><li>Take one of the canon=
{ngIq} sentences.<br></li><li>Come up with some context to make it obvious t=
hat {ngIq} means "all of them, one by one".<br></li><li>Come up with some di=
fferent context to make it obvious that {ngIq} means "just one thing out of a=
collection of things".</li></ol></div></div></blockquote><div>nIteb chegh m=
olor ngIq ghoqwI'</div><div><br></div><div>By itself, it is ambiguous. Such i=
s often the case with sentences plucked from their surroundings.</div><div><=
br></div><div>The context in the paq'batlh is that of multiple scouts:</div>=
<div><br></div><div> joqwI''e' cha'bogh qeylIS luDel 'e' ra' mo=
lor</div><div> "He asks them which banner Kahless marches under=
."</div><div><br></div><div>Even if you didn't know that several got sent ea=
rlier, {lu-} in {luDel} makes it clear that Molor's scouts are not a single p=
erson. Obviously it was more than one scout returning, each alone:</div><div=
><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></div>=
<div><span style=3D"background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> =
nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'</span></div><div><span style=3D"background-c=
olor: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> "One by one Molor's scouts retu=
rn."</span></div><div><br></div><div>Consider if the context were instead so=
mething like this:</div><div><br></div><div> Heghpu' HochHom gh=
oqwI'. ratlh wa' neH. ghaH po' law' Hoch ghaH puS.</div><div> "=
All the scouts are dead save one, the most skilled of all."</div><div><br></=
div><div>That would make it explicit that only the single scout made it back=
:</div><div><br></div><div> nIteb chegh molor ngIq ghoqwI'</div=
><div> "Molor's sole scout returns alone."</div><br><blockquote=
type=3D"cite"><div><div><div>I say that's impossible, unless the context pr=
etty much defines {ngIq} for you.</div></div></div></blockquote><br><div>You=
did ask for that context, so you don't have a reason to complain if it is p=
rovided.</div><div><br></div><div>-- ghunchu'wI'</div><div><br></div></body>=
</html>=
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