[110390] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] Using object prefix with {-vo'}
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Wed Aug 9 09:26:49 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Wed, 9 Aug 2017 09:26:14 -0400
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On 8/9/2017 8:41 AM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
> juHDaq vIjaH
> I go to the house
>
> juHDaq jIjaH
> The going takes place in the vicinity of the house
>
> juHvo' jIjaH
> I am going away from the house
>
> We have said that when using the {-vo'}, as in the last example, we
> always use a prefix indicating no-object.
>
> But I wonder.. If we did write {juHvo' vIjaH}, then would it be
> considered wrong ? Does it violate any rules, or is it just that using
> a prefix indicating an object is unnecessary/redundant ?
*juHDaq vIjaH* is considered redundant because the object of *jaH*
inherently includes a locative sense. Anything you *jaH* is something
you're *jaH*-ing /to./
There is no inherent "away from" sense to *jaH,* so *juHvo' vIjaH* is
probably an awkward phrase, if not downright disallowed.
On the other hand, I bet *jaghvo' vIDoH* is considered a redundant form
of *jagh vIDoH* for a very similar reason. In fact, I believe the "verbs
of motion" are not special because they describe motion, but because
their objects have inherent syntactic roles that are reproduced by
suffixes. Any similar verbs would do likewise, even if they don't
describe motion. If you could find a verb whose object is inherently
causative, I bet /*N*/*mo' vI/V/* would be considered just as redundant.
--
SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 8/9/2017 8:41 AM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAP7F2cL+q2w6FyZB39YD+7VvTE4n-2jE5aERV3su7KgU+uFQ4g@mail.gmail.com">juHDaq
vIjaH
<div dir="auto">I go to the house</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">juHDaq jIjaH</div>
<div dir="auto">The going takes place in the vicinity of the house</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">juHvo' jIjaH</div>
<div dir="auto">I am going away from the house</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">We have said that when using the {-vo'}, as in the
last example, we always use a prefix indicating no-object.</div>
<div dir="auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir="auto">But I wonder.. If we did write {juHvo' vIjaH},
then would it be considered wrong ? Does it violate any rules,
or is it just that using a prefix indicating an object is
unnecessary/redundant ?</div>
</blockquote>
<p><b>juHDaq vIjaH</b> is considered redundant because the object of
<b>jaH</b> inherently includes a locative sense. Anything you <b>jaH</b>
is something you're <b>jaH</b>-ing <i>to.</i></p>
<p>There is no inherent "away from" sense to <b>jaH,</b> so <b>juHvo'
vIjaH</b> is probably an awkward phrase, if not downright
disallowed.</p>
<p>On the other hand, I bet <b>jaghvo' vIDoH</b> is considered a
redundant form of <b>jagh vIDoH</b> for a very similar reason. In
fact, I believe the "verbs of motion" are not special because they
describe motion, but because their objects have inherent syntactic
roles that are reproduced by suffixes. Any similar verbs would do
likewise, even if they don't describe motion. If you could find a
verb whose object is inherently causative, I bet <i><b>N</b></i><b>mo'
vI<i>V</i></b> would be considered just as redundant.<br>
</p>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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