[108981] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] KLBC - How to say "I like to do/doing something"
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (SuStel)
Sun Feb 12 12:21:17 2017
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From: SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name>
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 2017 12:20:42 -0500
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jum. choQoylaHchugh jIratlhlaH 'e' vIQub. mIw vISovbe'. jIDogh. bIDogh,
Qel qan. bIvemDI' SoS vav je Daghaj 'ej choqawbe'. toH, loQ choqaw.
nachlIj Dabbogh lut jIH. lu'. tagha' lut 'oH Hoch'e'. lut yIQaQmoH.
nIvmo', nIvbejmo': 'IDnar 'aplo' nIHta' maw'bogh loD qan 'ej Haw'ta'.
vInIHta' 'e' qaja'? toH, vIngIpta'; reH vIcheghmoH 'e' vIHech. 'o
'aplo'vetlh, /Amy,/ 'aplo'vetlh Daghom bInajtaHvIS. not Dumej. quq
ngoDmeyvam: tIn 'ej mach, chu'chu' 'ej qanqu'; 'ej SuDchu'ghachDaj SuD
law' Hoch SuD puS. 'ej Doch DIta'bogh, qar'a'? Doch lujallu'bogh. Doch
DIta'be'bogh. bInajtaHvIS ratlh Dochmeyvam. Qel /Amy Pond/ je...
qaSbe'bogh jajmey je.
SoQchoH Qarghmey. 'ach SoQlaHbe'chu' latlh Dop vIghoSpa'. DaH naDev
jInov. ratlhbogh qaSHa'ghach vIbuSQo'. qaSqa'ghach vImuS. yIyInchu'.
/Rory/ yImuSHa'. /Bye-bye, Pond./
On 2/12/2017 10:27 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:
> Thanks for your help and explanations Sustel !
>
> I think I get it now :)
>
> ~mughwI'
>
> PS: "TARDIS-blue", I love your choice of example ;) Whovian jIH!
>
>
> 2017-02-11 18:16 GMT+01:00 SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name
> <mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>>:
>
> On 2/11/2017 8:34 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:
>> Indeed the lack of tense can be a bit confusing sometimes and
>> it's taking me a bit of time getting used to.
>>
>> I'm still working to figure out also how it works with the verb
>> suffixes.
>>
>> For example, in the 4 possible sentences below, do I get the
>> exact nuances right?
>>
>> jIvutpu’ ’e’ vIparHa’
>> - I like that I cooked (at some point in the past)
>> - I like that I have cooked (just now)
>> - I like finishing to cook (maybe implying that this is when I
>> can finally eat ;)
>
> "At some point in the past" implies past tense, which we know
> Klingon doesn't have. Instead, the *-pu'* tells us that "I cook"
> is a completed action. In English we can't separate tense and
> aspect, so the distinction is difficult for English-speakers to grasp.
>
> *jIvutpu'
> */I cooked; I have cooked; I will have cooked
> /I perform, performed, or will perform an act of cooking, and I
> now, did, or will complete that act.
>
> The single word in no way tells you whether the action is past,
> present, or future. It means all of them and none of them at the
> same time, the same way that /blue/ means sky-blue and navy-blue
> and TARDIS-blue all at the same time.
>
> *wa'Hu' jIvutpu'
> */yesterday I cooked; yesterday I had cooked/
>
> *DaH jIvutpu'
> */right now I have cooked/
>
> *wa'leS jIvutpu'
> */tomorrow I will have cooked/
>
> Contexts like these are required to determine /when/ the cooking
> happened.
>
> If you don't use an aspect suffix, you are explicitly talking
> about an action that is not completed (or continuous) in the
> moment your are describing.
>
> *jIvut
> */I cook; //It's true that I cook things/
>
> This also does not specify /when/ an action happened, which
> requires context:
>
> *wa'Hu' jIvut
> */I cooked yesterday; it's true that I engaged in cooking yesterday/
>
> *DaH jIvut
> */I cook now; at other times I may not have cooked, but it's true
> that I cook now/
>
> *wa'leS jIvut
> */I will cook tomorrow; tomorrow I'll do some cooking/
>
> You can make a similar comparison with the continuous suffixes.
>
> --
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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SuStel
http://trimboli.name
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">
<p>jum. choQoylaHchugh jIratlhlaH 'e' vIQub. mIw vISovbe'. jIDogh.
bIDogh, Qel qan. bIvemDI' SoS vav je Daghaj 'ej choqawbe'. toH,
loQ choqaw. nachlIj Dabbogh lut jIH. lu'. tagha' lut 'oH
Hoch'e'. lut yIQaQmoH. nIvmo', nIvbejmo': 'IDnar 'aplo' nIHta'
maw'bogh loD qan 'ej Haw'ta'. vInIHta' 'e' qaja'? toH,
vIngIpta'; reH vIcheghmoH 'e' vIHech. 'o 'aplo'vetlh, <i>Amy,</i>
'aplo'vetlh Daghom bInajtaHvIS. not Dumej. quq ngoDmeyvam: tIn
'ej mach, chu'chu' 'ej qanqu'; 'ej SuDchu'ghachDaj SuD law' Hoch
SuD puS. 'ej Doch DIta'bogh, qar'a'? Doch lujallu'bogh. Doch
DIta'be'bogh. bInajtaHvIS ratlh Dochmeyvam. Qel <i>Amy Pond</i>
je... qaSbe'bogh jajmey je.</p>
<p>SoQchoH Qarghmey. 'ach SoQlaHbe'chu' latlh Dop vIghoSpa'. DaH
naDev jInov. ratlhbogh qaSHa'ghach vIbuSQo'. qaSqa'ghach vImuS.
yIyInchu'. <i>Rory</i> yImuSHa'. <i>Bye-bye, Pond.</i><br>
</p>
<br>
On 2/12/2017 10:27 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEr0j+QNMdAM4QU16QX+tLD6uGD3_n8_H-nnHhC1Y=MLiqqRbw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Thanks for your
help and explanations Sustel !</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I think I get
it now :)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">~mughwI'</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><span
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">PS:
"TARDIS-blue", I love your choice of example ;) </span><font
face="times new roman, serif">Whovian jIH</font><font
face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"> !</font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2017-02-11 18:16 GMT+01:00 SuStel <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target="_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
<div class="m_1027761195527772997moz-cite-prefix">On
2/11/2017 8:34 AM, Aurélie Demonchaux wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">Indeed
the lack of tense can be a bit confusing sometimes
and it's taking me a bit of time getting used to.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">I'm
still working to figure out also how it works with
the verb suffixes.</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">For
example, in the 4 possible sentences below, do I get
the exact nuances right?</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_default"><font face="times new
roman, serif">jIvutpu’ ’e’ vIparHa’ </font></div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">- I
like that I cooked (at some point in the past)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">- I
like that I have cooked (just now)</div>
<div class="gmail_default"
style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">- I
like finishing to cook (maybe implying that this is
when I can finally eat ;)</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</span>
<p>"At some point in the past" implies past tense, which
we know Klingon doesn't have. Instead, the <b>-pu'</b>
tells us that "I cook" is a completed action. In English
we can't separate tense and aspect, so the distinction
is difficult for English-speakers to grasp.</p>
<p><b>jIvutpu'<br>
</b><i>I cooked; I have cooked; I will have cooked<br>
</i>I perform, performed, or will perform an act of
cooking, and I now, did, or will complete that act.</p>
<p>The single word in no way tells you whether the action
is past, present, or future. It means all of them and
none of them at the same time, the same way that <i>blue</i>
means sky-blue and navy-blue and TARDIS-blue all at the
same time.<br>
</p>
<p><b>wa'Hu' jIvutpu'<br>
</b><i>yesterday I cooked; yesterday I had cooked</i></p>
<p><b>DaH jIvutpu'<br>
</b><i>right now I have cooked</i></p>
<p><b>wa'leS jIvutpu'<br>
</b><i>tomorrow I will have cooked</i></p>
<p>Contexts like these are required to determine <i>when</i>
the cooking happened.</p>
<p>If you don't use an aspect suffix, you are explicitly
talking about an action that is not completed (or
continuous) in the moment your are describing.</p>
<p><b>jIvut<br>
</b><i>I cook; </i><i>It's true that I cook things</i></p>
<p>This also does not specify <i>when</i> an action
happened, which requires context:</p>
<p><b>wa'Hu' jIvut<br>
</b><i>I cooked yesterday; it's true that I engaged in
cooking yesterday</i></p>
<p><b>DaH jIvut<br>
</b><i>I cook now; at other times I may not have cooked,
but it's true that I cook now</i></p>
<p><b>wa'leS jIvut<br>
</b><i>I will cook tomorrow; tomorrow I'll do some
cooking</i></p>
<p>You can make a similar comparison with the continuous
suffixes.<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>
</font></span></p>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<pre class="m_1027761195527772997moz-signature" cols="72">--
SuStel
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="m_1027761195527772997moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://trimboli.name" target="_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
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