[108681] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] mutpu' or mutmey ?
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (De'vID)
Thu Dec 29 10:13:57 2016
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In-Reply-To: <CAMBCAn__mfDDnLuGTpRXWR3adAK73dEtzoR4utrs_gwpe73oSw@mail.gmail.com>
From: "De'vID" <de.vid.jonpin@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 29 Dec 2016 16:13:52 +0100
To: tlhIngan-Hol <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
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On 29 December 2016 at 16:05, Lawrence M. Schoen <klingonguy@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:52 AM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
>
>
>> *A mut is not a thing capable of using language. Its members are, but it
>> is not. It is an abstraction.*
>>
> I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. Metaphorically, we treat
> groups as possessing the attributes of language users all the time.
>
In English. Do we do that in Klingon?
> The Borg Collective express outrage at latest Star Trek film.
>
> Barbers Union presses for more Bolians in new Trek series.
>
> Readers of Schoen's fiction ask if elephants can really talk.
>
> Translate any of the above or similar statements into Klingon and the
> group is clearly understood to be made up of language users and no one
> would blink twice at the figurative use of extending that attribute to the
> group.
>
In the case of something like "readers", they're clearly {laDwI'pu'} and
it's not just metaphorical. They're literally beings capable of language.
But for words like {DIvI'} or {tuq} or {mut}, the plural should clearly use
{-mey}, even if they're collections of things which are capable of
language.
--
De'vID
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
On 29 December 2016 at 16:05, Lawrence M. Schoen <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:klingonguy@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">klingonguy@gmail.com<=
/a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:=
0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><span class=3D"=
">On Thu, Dec 29, 2016 at 9:52 AM, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a href=3D"=
mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank">sustel@trimboli.name</a>>=
</span> wrote:<br><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgc=
olor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"><div class=3D"m_-7698962199955424547m_-46=
52790559434593405moz-cite-prefix"></div>
<p><i>A <b>mut</b> is not a thing capable of using language. Its
members are, but it is not. It is an abstraction.</i></p></div></bloc=
kquote></span><div>I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. Metaphori=
cally, we treat groups as possessing the attributes of language users all t=
he time.=C2=A0</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In E=
nglish. Do we do that in Klingon?</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div>=C2=A0The Borg Collective express outrage at latest Star Tre=
k film.<br><br>Barbers Union presses for more Bolians in new Trek series.<b=
r><br>Readers of Schoen's fiction ask if elephants can really talk.<br>=
<br>Translate any of the above or similar statements into Klingon and the g=
roup is clearly understood to be made up of language users and no one would=
blink twice at the figurative use of extending that attribute to the group=
.</div></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>In the case of so=
mething like "readers", they're clearly {laDwI'pu'} a=
nd it's not just metaphorical. They're literally beings capable of =
language.</div><div><br></div><div>But for words like {DIvI'} or {tuq} =
or {mut}, the plural should clearly use {-mey}, even if they're collect=
ions of things which are capable of language.=C2=A0</div></div><div><br></d=
iv>-- <br><div class=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"=
>De'vID</div>
</div></div>
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