[108627] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [tlhIngan Hol] to qaStaHvIS or not to qaStaHvIS
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (mayqel qunenoS)
Tue Dec 27 13:24:06 2016
X-Original-To: tlhingan-hol@lists.kli.org
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cKXLgdWxp7fRoj_Y=7jhOm1EG0R0dfiXTni3+_Dd+DvZg@mail.gmail.com>
From: mayqel qunenoS <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2016 20:24:02 +0200
To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Reply-To: tlhingan-hol@kli.org
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@lists.kli.org
--===============3169522585942731190==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c0480daf184800544a7f410
--94eb2c0480daf184800544a7f410
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
SuStel:
> like a single fight during a period of three
> years
I guess this means something like:
{qaStaHvIS wej DIS wa' may' neH wIyIn}
we only had one battle during three years
right ?
qunnoH jan puqloD
ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'
On 27 Dec 2016 7:51 pm, "SuStel" <sustel@trimboli.name> wrote:
On 12/27/2016 12:06 PM, mayqel qunenoS wrote:
for quite some time now, I am wondering as to the extent one must use the
{qaStaHvIS}.
my understanding is, that if we are talking about an event which takes
place once, there is no need for {qaStaHvIS}.
example:
DaSjaj matlheD
(on) monday we depart
on the other hand, if we talk of an event that lasts quite some time, then
the qaStaHvIS is (seemingly) required.
example:
qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum
while monday is happening I work
so, here is my first question: in the aforementioned example {qaStaHvIS
DaSjaj jIvum}, is the {qaStaHvIS} necessary ? can't I just write {DaSjaj
jIvum} ?
Yes, you can just write *DaSjaj jIvum** I work on Monday.* You're not
telling us about how your work was structured, just that on Monday, work
happened.
maj..
moving on, my next question is "if we are talking of singular events which
take place multiple times, do we use the {qaStaHvIS} ?"
example:
on monday I kill four birds
do I write
{DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH}
or do I write
{qaStaHvIS DaSjaj loS bo'Degh vIHoH}
For simple time expressions, this doesn't make a difference. *qaStaHvIS* is
much more useful when referring to events, e.g. *qaStaHvIS SoQ jIQongchoH**
I fell asleep during the speech,* or time periods, e.g., *qaStaHvIS wej DIS
toQDuj baHwI' jIH*
* I was a Bird of Prey gunner for three years. *
Exactly when a phrase is a time expression or a time period is difficult
for me to articulate. Longer periods get treated like time periods when the
subject is events of short duration (like a single fight during a period of
three years). *qaStaHvIS *has a sort of "zooming-in" effect; you are
examining a subset of the entire period and saying that the period was
going on before the point you're looking at and continues on after the
point you're looking at. When you want to zoom in, treat it like a time
period and use *qaStaHvIS.* When you just want to label when something
happened, and you don't want to zoom into the context of the moment, use a
time expression.
--
SuStelhttp://trimboli.name
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--94eb2c0480daf184800544a7f410
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<div dir=3D"auto">SuStel:<div dir=3D"auto">> like a single fight during =
a period of three=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto">> years</div><div dir=3D"=
auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I guess this means something like:</div><=
div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">{qaStaHvIS wej DIS wa' may=
' neH wIyIn}</div><div dir=3D"auto">we only had one battle during three=
years</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">right ?</div><div=
dir=3D"auto"><br><div data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature" dir=3D"auto">qunn=
oH jan puqloD<br>ghoghwIj HablI'vo' vIngeHta'<br></div></div></=
div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On 27 Dec 201=
6 7:51 pm, "SuStel" <<a href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name">s=
ustel@trimboli.name</a>> wrote:<br type=3D"attribution"><blockquote clas=
s=3D"quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-l=
eft:1ex">
=20
=20
=20
<div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000"><div class=3D"quoted-text">
<div class=3D"m_-3560092767083586418moz-cite-prefix">On 12/27/2016 12:0=
6 PM, mayqel qunenoS
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">for quite some time now, I am wondering as to=
the
extent one must use the {qaStaHvIS}.
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">my understanding is, that if we are talking about
an event which takes place once, there is no need for
{qaStaHvIS}.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">example:</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">DaSjaj matlheD</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">(on) monday we depart</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">on the other hand, if we talk of an event that
lasts quite some time, then the qaStaHvIS is (seemingly)
required.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">example:</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">qaStaHvIS DaSjaj jIvum</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">while monday is happening I work</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">so, here is my first question: in the
aforementioned example {<span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">qaSt=
aHvIS
DaSjaj jIvum}, is the {qaStaHvIS} necessary ? can't I just
write {DaSjaj jIvum} ?</span></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div><p>Yes, you can just write <b>DaSjaj jIvum</b><i> I work on Monda=
y.</i>
You're not telling us about how your work was structured, just
that on Monday, work happened.</p><div class=3D"quoted-text">
<br>
<blockquote type=3D"cite">
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">maj..</span>=
</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif">moving on, m=
y
next question is "if we are talking of singular events which
take place multiple times, do we use the {qaStaHvIS} ?"</spa=
n></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><span style=3D"font-family:sans-serif"><br>
</span></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">example:</font></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">on monday I kill four
birds</font></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">do I write=C2=A0</font></=
div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">{DaSjaj loS bo'Degh v=
IHoH}</font></div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">or do I write</font></div=
>
<div dir=3D"auto"><font face=3D"sans-serif">{qaStaHvIS DaSjaj loS
bo'Degh vIHoH}</font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
</div><p>For simple time expressions, this doesn't make a differenc=
e. <b>qaStaHvIS</b>
is much more useful when referring to events, e.g. <b>qaStaHvIS
SoQ jIQongchoH</b><i> I fell asleep during the speech,</i> or
time periods, e.g., <b>qaStaHvIS wej DIS toQDuj baHwI' jIH</b><i>=
<font size=3D"-1"> </font>I was a Bird of Prey gunner for three
years.<br>
</i></p>
<p>Exactly when a phrase is a time expression or a time period is
difficult for me to articulate. Longer periods get treated like
time periods when the subject is events of short duration (like a
single fight during a period of three years). <b>qaStaHvIS </b>has
a sort of "zooming-in" effect; you are examining a subset o=
f the
entire period and saying that the period was going on before the
point you're looking at and continues on after the point you'=
re
looking at. When you want to zoom in, treat it like a time period
and use <b>qaStaHvIS.</b> When you just want to label when
something happened, and you don't want to zoom into the context o=
f
the moment, use a time expression.<font color=3D"#888888"><br>
<i></i></font></p><font color=3D"#888888">
<pre class=3D"m_-3560092767083586418moz-signature" cols=3D"72">--=20
SuStel
<a class=3D"m_-3560092767083586418moz-txt-link-freetext" href=3D"http://tri=
mboli.name" target=3D"_blank">http://trimboli.name</a></pre>
</font></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org">tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org</a=
><br>
<a href=3D"http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.<wbr>cgi/tlhinga=
n-hol-kli.org</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>
--94eb2c0480daf184800544a7f410--
--===============3169522585942731190==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
tlhIngan-Hol mailing list
tlhIngan-Hol@lists.kli.org
http://lists.kli.org/listinfo.cgi/tlhingan-hol-kli.org
--===============3169522585942731190==--
