[102207] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] rup
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Wed Nov 11 15:46:02 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2c+KXL_uMYO5ikun+1Ah7bJfv+F_zWgKo+4rscd507x+oQ@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2015 15:45:44 -0500
To: qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com>
Cc: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
--===============7114170981811219211==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_929CF136-54A7-4397-850C-4290D1943F24"
--Apple-Mail=_929CF136-54A7-4397-850C-4290D1943F24
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
Just to point out two things about Okrand=E2=80=99s =E2=80=9Cglosses=E2=80=
=9D:
1. He never uses the infinitive form of a verb because Klingon doesn=E2=80=
=99t have an infinitive form.
2. He only uses parenthesis to impart meaning that is, well, =
parenthetical. He does not use them to distinguish between a word that =
has a single meaning or one that has multiple meanings. An example is:
baQ =E2=80=94 be fresh, be just picked (fruit, vegetable)
baj =E2=80=94 earn, (actively) work for
bertlham =E2=80=94 end (of an opera, play, story, speech)
bIH =E2=80=94 they, them (incapable of language)
The parenthetical verbiage gives us greater detail to narrow down the =
meaning from what might otherwise be likely interpreted without the =
addition. You wouldn=E2=80=99t use {baQ} to refer to a freshly picked =
nose, for instance. You wouldn=E2=80=99t use {baj} for someone passively =
getting a paycheck for just being there. You wouldn=E2=80=99t use =
{bertlham} to refer to the end of a street or the end of a rope. You =
wouldn=E2=80=99t use {bIH} to refer to a group of Klingons (unless you =
were trying to start a fight).
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> thanks for replying. I thought too that "tax" was to be used only in =
the way of the "evil king" example. I just wanted to make certain.
>=20
> > Hmm, I'm uncertain what you mean by "<<tax>> isn't within brackets". =
Are you looking at a digital version of the book?
> > Where this came from?
>=20
> no,I'm not using a digital version. I was referring to the =
actual/physical book. maybe i didn't describe well what i meant to say.. =
I remember,when I was learning english,whenever there was a word which's =
meaning could be interpreted in two separate ways,then the =
explanation/clarification would follow the first word being contained in =
brackets. In our topic it would be something like :
>=20
> rup (v) to fine, (to tax)
>=20
> whenever on the other hand a word actually had two separate =
meanings,then it would be written as :
>=20
> rup (v) to fine,to tax
>=20
>=20
>=20
> On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 4:08 PM, SuStel <sustel@trimboli.name =
<mailto:sustel@trimboli.name>> wrote:
> On 11/11/2015 8:40 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:
> Hmm, I'm uncertain what you mean by "<<tax>> isn't within brackets". =
Are
> you looking at a digital version of the book?
>=20
> When two different definitions are given for a word, it's often to =
help
> avoid ambiguity. As you say, the English word "tax" is ambiguous, but
> the addition of "fine" makes it clear which meaning of the word is =
intended.
>=20
> It would be very surprising if the Klingon word had the same =
ambiguity,
> so I'd advise you to stick to the "evil king" use of the word.
>=20
> On the other hand, "tax, impose a burden on" is really just another =
sense of the meaning of "tax, fine." I don't think its inconceivable to =
use {rup} in this sense, though it might be considered metaphorical.
>=20
> --=20
> SuStel
> http://trimboli.name <http://trimboli.name/>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org <mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol =
<http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol>
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--Apple-Mail=_929CF136-54A7-4397-850C-4290D1943F24
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">Just to point out two things about Okrand=E2=80=
=99s =E2=80=9Cglosses=E2=80=9D:</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">1. He never uses the infinitive form of =
a verb because Klingon doesn=E2=80=99t have an infinitive =
form.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">2. He =
only uses parenthesis to impart meaning that is, well, parenthetical. He =
does not use them to distinguish between a word that has a single =
meaning or one that has multiple meanings. An example is:</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">baQ =E2=80=94 be fresh, =
be just picked (fruit, vegetable)</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">baj =E2=80=94 earn, (actively) work =
for</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">bertlham =
=E2=80=94 end (of an opera, play, story, speech)</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">bIH =E2=80=94 they, them (incapable of =
language)</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
parenthetical verbiage gives us greater detail to narrow down the =
meaning from what might otherwise be likely interpreted without the =
addition. You wouldn=E2=80=99t use {baQ} to refer to a freshly picked =
nose, for instance. You wouldn=E2=80=99t use {baj} for someone passively =
getting a paycheck for just being there. You wouldn=E2=80=99t use =
{bertlham} to refer to the end of a street or the end of a rope. You =
wouldn=E2=80=99t use {bIH} to refer to a group of Klingons (unless you =
were trying to start a fight).</div><br class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 11, 2015, at 9:30 AM, qunnoQ HoD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><div class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">thanks for replying. I thought too that "tax" was to be used =
only in the way of the "evil king" example. I just wanted to make =
certain.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">> Hmm, I'm uncertain what you =
mean by "<<tax>> isn't within=20
brackets". Are you looking at a digital version of the book?<br =
class=3D"">> Where this came from?<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>no,I'm not using a digital version. I was referring to =
the actual/physical book. maybe i didn't describe well what i meant to =
say.. I remember,when I was learning english,whenever there was a word =
which's meaning could be interpreted in two separate ways,then the =
explanation/clarification would follow the first word being contained in =
brackets. In our topic it would be something like :<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>rup (v) to fine, (to tax)<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div>whenever on the other hand a word actually had two =
separate meanings,then it would be written as :<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">rup (v) to fine,to tax<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div></div><div =
class=3D"gmail_extra"><br class=3D""><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Wed, =
Nov 11, 2015 at 4:08 PM, SuStel <span dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><<a =
href=3D"mailto:sustel@trimboli.name" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">sustel@trimboli.name</a>></span> wrote:<br =
class=3D""><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">On =
11/11/2015 8:40 AM, Felix Malmenbeck wrote:<br class=3D"">
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Hmm, I'm uncertain what you mean by "<<tax>> isn't within =
brackets". Are<br class=3D"">
you looking at a digital version of the book?<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
When two different definitions are given for a word, it's often to =
help<br class=3D"">
avoid ambiguity. As you say, the English word "tax" is ambiguous, but<br =
class=3D"">
the addition of "fine" makes it clear which meaning of the word is =
intended.<br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
It would be very surprising if the Klingon word had the same =
ambiguity,<br class=3D"">
so I'd advise you to stick to the "evil king" use of the word.<br =
class=3D"">
</blockquote>
<br class=3D""></span>
On the other hand, "tax, impose a burden on" is really just another =
sense of the meaning of "tax, fine." I don't think its inconceivable to =
use {rup} in this sense, though it might be considered =
metaphorical.<span class=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888" class=3D""><br=
class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
-- <br class=3D"">
SuStel<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://trimboli.name/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://trimboli.name</a><br class=3D"">
<br class=3D"">
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">
Tlhingan-hol mailing list<br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br class=3D"">
<a href=3D"http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol" =
rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank" =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol</a><br =
class=3D"">
</font></span></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail=_929CF136-54A7-4397-850C-4290D1943F24--
--===============7114170981811219211==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============7114170981811219211==--
