[101867] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Comment on transliteration WAS: Defiant
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Brent Kesler)
Tue Nov 3 10:50:00 2015
In-Reply-To: <CAFgJOr1Sp1xZeKmbDgMZpj3YCh87KME2p3h6Msk9vGE1C+YA7Q@mail.gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Nov 2015 10:49:43 -0500
From: Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.com>
To: "tlhingan-hol@kli.org" <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
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I also wanted to mention: Phnom penh.
bI'reng
On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Brent Kesler <brent.of.all.people@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Doug Henning <likethemagician@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Sticking to only Klingon syllable structure, you would probably
>> transliterate the name as *DIvay'enIt*, to avoid a consonant cluster
>> without a vowel. Elision of the vowel *'It*, turning C*I*C into CC,
>> seems to be a common alternate pronunciation of Klingon names, as in
>> *wo'rIv* > "Worf".
>>
>
>
> I don't mean to pick on Mr. Henning (or anyone else), but I have a strong
> opinion on this subject, and I want to give it.
>
> It seems that Klingonists have preference for trying to make non-Klingon
> words fit Klingon phonology. This isn't necessarily a bad thing--it's a
> good exercise to put yourself in someone else's place and imagine how
> something normal to us would sound strange to them.
>
> But sometimes I think we take it too far, as if Klingons would never enjoy
> the challenge of moving their tongues in strange ways to make strange
> sounds that make sense to strange people.
>
> We have some evidence that they're not entirely hostile to foreign speech
> patterns: janluq pIqarD.
>
> Of course, if you're trying to translate something, it is *your*
> translation, and you can choose whichever strategy makes the most sense to
> you. A couple years ago when I was writing weekly news summaries in
> Klingon, I deliberately chose a midway strategy: try to stick close to the
> original, but don't make it too difficult for a hypothetical Klingon to
> make sense of. So "Gaza" became {ghaSa} rather than {gha'Sa'}. Both are
> fine choices, but I wanted to emphasize the foreignness of the name.
>
> In the end how you transliterate something is your choice, but I just
> wanted to offer something to think about when you make that choice.
>
> bI'reng
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr">I also wanted to mention: Phnom penh.<div><br></div><div>b=
I'reng</div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Tue, Nov 3, 2015 at 10:43 AM, Brent Kesler <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a=
href=3D"mailto:brent.of.all.people@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">brent.of.a=
ll.people@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
><div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote">On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 1:56 PM, Doug Henning <span dir=3D"ltr"><<a =
href=3D"mailto:likethemagician@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">likethemagician=
@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><di=
v style=3D"color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:times new roman,new=
york,times,serif;font-size:16px"><div dir=3D"ltr"><span>Sticking to only K=
lingon syllable structure, you would probably transliterate the name as <b>=
DIvay'enIt</b>, to avoid a consonant cluster without a vowel. Elision o=
f the vowel <b>'It</b>,=C2=A0turning C<b>I</b>C=C2=A0into CC, seems to =
be a common alternate pronunciation of Klingon names, as in <b>wo'rIv</=
b> > "Worf".</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div>I don't mean to pick on Mr. Henning (or anyone e=
lse), but I have a strong opinion on this subject, and I want to give it.</=
div><div><br></div><div>It seems that Klingonists have preference for tryin=
g to make non-Klingon words fit Klingon phonology. This isn't necessari=
ly a bad thing--it's a good exercise to put yourself in someone else=
9;s place and imagine how something normal to us would sound strange to the=
m.</div><div><br></div><div>But sometimes I think we take it too far, as if=
Klingons would never enjoy the challenge of moving their tongues in strang=
e ways to make strange sounds that make sense to strange people.</div><div>=
<br></div><div>We have some evidence that they're not entirely hostile =
to foreign speech patterns: janluq pIqarD.</div><div><br></div><div>Of cour=
se, if you're trying to translate something, it is *your* translation, =
and you can choose whichever strategy makes the most sense to you. A couple=
years ago when I was writing weekly news summaries in Klingon, I deliberat=
ely chose a midway strategy: try to stick close to the original, but don=
9;t make it too difficult for a hypothetical Klingon to make sense of. So &=
quot;Gaza" became {ghaSa} rather than {gha'Sa'}. Both are fine=
choices, but I wanted to emphasize the foreignness of the name.<br></div><=
div><br></div><div>In the end how you transliterate something is your choic=
e, but I just wanted to offer something to think about when you make that c=
hoice.</div><div><br></div><div>bI'reng</div></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div>
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