[101813] in tlhIngan-Hol
Re: [Tlhingan-hol] Defiant
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Will Martin)
Mon Nov 2 11:22:28 2015
From: Will Martin <lojmitti7wi7nuv@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 11:22:10 -0500
To: tlhIngan Hol mailing list <tlhingan-hol@kli.org>
In-Reply-To: <CAP7F2cJTLrXR0atjhYq=QugZUKthb1-iojhDSJ--0_aFApP7Eg@mail.gmail.com>
Errors-To: tlhingan-hol-bounces@kli.org
--===============8425276944981647064==
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BFA83F79-8E03-492D-9BA5-0AC311D00FD0"
--Apple-Mail=_BFA83F79-8E03-492D-9BA5-0AC311D00FD0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset=utf-8
I=E2=80=99m not a linguist. So, I=E2=80=99m faking it as an amateur in =
the following message. Just because I=E2=80=99m not official, it =
doesn=E2=80=99t mean I haven=E2=80=99t been listening to actual =
linguists here and learned a few things that I=E2=80=99d like to pass =
on.
While there is no canon way to say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D in Klingon, =
and your transliteration is reasonably good, I=E2=80=99d suggest =
{DI=E2=80=99vay=E2=80=99ent} or {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}. There is no =E2=80=9C=
f=E2=80=9D in Klingon, and the {v} is often substituted in =
transliterations, and I definitely use a subtle glottal stop between the =
=E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D when I say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=
=80=9D. The =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t =
blend together as they do in =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D.
I suspect it=E2=80=99s due to the way we shift from high (i, e) to low =
vowels (a, o, u) vowels naturally, as in =E2=80=9Ctick tock=E2=80=9D but =
never =E2=80=9Ctock tick=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cnicknack=E2=80=9D and never =
=E2=80=9Cnacknick=E2=80=9D. In =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D the =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D=
is pronounced as a long =E2=80=9Ce=E2=80=9D, like =E2=80=9Cveeeyah=E2=80=9D=
(high to low vowel glide), but in =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D, the =
=E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D is pronounced =E2=80=9Cah=E2=80=9D, which is lower =
than the schwa of the =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D, so we break it, either with a =
glottal stop, or an inserted =E2=80=9Cy=E2=80=9D sound, and we=E2=80=99ve =
already used the {ay} to represent the long =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D =
(=E2=80=9Ceye=E2=80=9D) sound=E2=80=A6
So, I guess it might also be transliterated as {DIvayyent}, if you are =
really bothered by the glottal stop.
There is no singular right way to transliterate. But using =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=
=9D is not really okay, since Klingons don=E2=80=99t have that phoneme =
in their language.
So, my vote is for {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}, though several others are =
acceptable.
pItlh
lojmIt tI'wI'nuv
> On Nov 2, 2015, at 10:41 AM, qunnoQ HoD <mihkoun@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> since the defiant is shown in episodes where klingon/klingons appear =
too,i have been wondering how are we to say <<defiant>> in thlIngan.
>=20
> I don't know if it has a canon name,so at first I searched if there is =
a klingon verb meaning <<to defy>>,but i found none. so next I thought =
of how would one translate/describe the meaning of <<defiant>> in =
klingon.
>=20
> but I didn't get far with that thought,because this thought occured to =
me..
>=20
> whenever lets say an english ship arrives at a greek port,no greek =
authority would go about translating her name in greek ; it would either =
write her name in english,or write in greek her english name (the way it =
is pronounced).
>=20
> so I think that maybe the most logical thing to do,was for a klingon =
to simply say {DIfayant}
>=20
> is there a canon way,to say defiant ?
>=20
> qunnoQ HoD
> _______________________________________________
> Tlhingan-hol mailing list
> Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
> http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--Apple-Mail=_BFA83F79-8E03-492D-9BA5-0AC311D00FD0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
charset=utf-8
<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">I=E2=80=99m not a linguist. So, I=E2=80=99m =
faking it as an amateur in the following message. Just because I=E2=80=99m=
not official, it doesn=E2=80=99t mean I haven=E2=80=99t been listening =
to actual linguists here and learned a few things that I=E2=80=99d like =
to pass on.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>While there is no =
canon way to say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D in Klingon, and your =
transliteration is reasonably good, I=E2=80=99d suggest {DI=E2=80=99vay=E2=
=80=99ent} or {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}. There is no =E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D in =
Klingon, and the {v} is often substituted in transliterations, and I =
definitely use a subtle glottal stop between the =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D when I say =E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D. The =E2=80=9Ci=E2=
=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=9D don=E2=80=99t blend together as they do =
in =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D.<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I suspect it=E2=80=99s due to the way we shift from high (i, =
e) to low vowels (a, o, u) vowels naturally, as in =E2=80=9Ctick tock=E2=80=
=9D but never =E2=80=9Ctock tick=E2=80=9D, =E2=80=9Cnicknack=E2=80=9D =
and never =E2=80=9Cnacknick=E2=80=9D. In =E2=80=9Cvia=E2=80=9D the =
=E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D is pronounced as a long =E2=80=9Ce=E2=80=9D, like =
=E2=80=9Cveeeyah=E2=80=9D (high to low vowel glide), but in =
=E2=80=9CDefiant=E2=80=9D, the =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D is pronounced =
=E2=80=9Cah=E2=80=9D, which is lower than the schwa of the =E2=80=9Ca=E2=80=
=9D, so we break it, either with a glottal stop, or an inserted =E2=80=9Cy=
=E2=80=9D sound, and we=E2=80=99ve already used the {ay} to represent =
the long =E2=80=9Ci=E2=80=9D (=E2=80=9Ceye=E2=80=9D) sound=E2=80=A6</div><=
div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So, I guess it might =
also be transliterated as {DIvayyent}, if you are really bothered by the =
glottal stop.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">There is no singular right way to transliterate. But using =
=E2=80=9Cf=E2=80=9D is not really okay, since Klingons don=E2=80=99t =
have that phoneme in their language.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So, my vote is for {DIvay=E2=80=99ent}, =
though several others are acceptable.<br class=3D""><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""><div class=3D"">
<span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: separate; =
color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-style: normal; =
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: -webkit-auto; text-indent: =
0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: =
0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: =
auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; "><div class=3D"">pItlh</div><div =
class=3D"">lojmIt tI'wI'nuv</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div></span><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
<br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Nov 2, 2015, at 10:41 AM, qunnoQ HoD <<a =
href=3D"mailto:mihkoun@gmail.com" class=3D"">mihkoun@gmail.com</a>> =
wrote:</div><br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
dir=3D"ltr" class=3D""><br class=3D"">since the defiant is shown in =
episodes where klingon/klingons appear too,i have been wondering how are =
we to say <<defiant>> in thlIngan.<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">I don't know if it has a canon name,so at first I searched if =
there is a klingon verb meaning <<to defy>>,but i found =
none. so next I thought of how would one translate/describe the meaning =
of <<defiant>> in klingon.<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">but =
I didn't get far with that thought,because this thought occured to =
me..<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">whenever lets say an english ship =
arrives at a greek port,no greek authority would go about translating =
her name in greek ; it would either write her name in english,or write =
in greek her english name (the way it is pronounced).<br class=3D""><br =
class=3D"">so I think that maybe the most logical thing to do,was for a =
klingon to simply say {DIfayant}<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">is there a =
canon way,to say defiant ?<br class=3D""><br class=3D"">qunnoQ HoD<br =
class=3D""></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol=
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:Tlhingan-hol@kli.org" =
class=3D"">Tlhingan-hol@kli.org</a><br =
class=3D"">http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br =
class=3D""></div></div></body></html>=
--Apple-Mail=_BFA83F79-8E03-492D-9BA5-0AC311D00FD0--
--===============8425276944981647064==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline
_______________________________________________
Tlhingan-hol mailing list
Tlhingan-hol@kli.org
http://mail.kli.org/mailman/listinfo/tlhingan-hol
--===============8425276944981647064==--
