[7088] in APO-L
Re: Men and the BSA
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Lee Correll)
Sat Oct 30 01:14:16 1993
Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1993 22:05:14 -0400
Reply-To: Lee Correll <lcorrell@cap.gwu.edu>
From: Lee Correll <lcorrell@cap.gwu.edu>
To: Multiple recipients of list APO-L <APO-L%PURCCVM.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9310300007.AA12616@cap.gwu.edu>
Fourth area of service: Service to the Nation as a Participating Citizen.
My interpretation of this statement: it is a part of my responsibility as
a US citizen to protect above all else the rights of individual citizens,
and citizens as a group.
** brief lecture mode on **
On Fri, 29 Oct 1993, Phillies Phan (John Given) wrote:
> Well, I'm never one to keep my mouth shut on fun issues, but I'll keep it
> brief.....
>
> 1) "Men of Alpha Phi Omega" True, "man" can refer to all human kind, but
> why do you think that is? Surely, it is a reflection of the patriarchal
> society which has so dominated western culture. So, if there is a hope to
> make men and women equal, we can't go on using language which makes men
> superior to women. Also, in APO specifically, I really doubt that the
> original authors of our Toast Song intended "men" to be "human beings." Why
> would they? All the members _were_ men. They said "men"; they meant "men."
> So the argument that the Toast Song actually refers to all human beings is
> invalid.
>
I will concur that "...They said 'men'; they meant 'men'." However, as
time goes by, the definitions of words change. "Men" used to mean "white
landholding males"; they were the only ones who had a say in government,
and the only ones to vote. Obviously, "men" in the same context today as
far as the US Constitution et al, means "men and women," with no
commentary on race, religion, sexual orientation, what floor of their
apartment building they live on or whether or not they throw paint at
police officers. Therefore, your statement "...actually refers to all
human beings is invalid" is can certainly be interpreted to be incorrect.
Further, the Toast Song itself refers to "Men of Alpha Phi Omega"; not "to
all human beings."
> 2) The BSA. I have a problem with Jerry's statement in the latest T&T: "We
> ackowledged our respect for the constitutional right of all private,
> voluntary organizations to determine their own values and policies." Well, I
> don't object to that statement, but to the "constitutional right." I believe
> that it is downright wrong for any group to discriminate against anyone on
> the basis of an innate characteristic of who they are, be it gender, race,
> ethnicity, sexual orientation, handicap, etc.
Do you understand why the '92 National Convention REMOVED those items that
were there? Among other reasons, to prevent using a list such as you have
used above. Further, the first amendment to the constitution provides for
the right to peaceably assemble. Read that "I can get anybody I want
together and we can form a group." You may believe that it is "downright
wrong" to discriminate on the bases listed above - let me add one to show
you that the issue is not so cut and dried. The Sweet Adelines are groups
of women (sexual discrimination here, folks) who must be able to harmonize
and solo with the other members of the group (vocal discrimination here).
Being a Philadelphia Phillies fan, what would happen if the team were
forced to accept an individual with a physical disability who wanted to
play left field? Is this discrimination? No. It is the RIGHT of an
organization to determine their own membership. Alpha Phi Omega's bylaws
provide for this right as well. So if BSA is wrong, bad news, so are we.
(Article III, Section 2 (1) "...who are selected by that chapter..."
(Article III, Section 2 (2) "...to the satisfaction of their chapter..."
(Article III, Section 2 (4) "...approved by the chapter..."
Are we next, John?
** lecture mode off **
I apologize for having this turn out as a flame, but it seemed as though
you were trodding upon some of the fundamental rights given to us as
citizens of the US. It surprised me, since you usually tend to have
rather insightful comments on the items discussed here.
Lee Correll
Yes, I have a title but it doesn't matter here
lcorrell@cap.gwu.edu
