[23860] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] APO House rule
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Dan Kreifus)
Thu Aug 28 12:43:30 2003
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 12:42:30 -0400
Reply-To: Dan Kreifus <dkreifus@yahoo.com>
From: Dan Kreifus <dkreifus@yahoo.com>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
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I think Rachael managed to nail my original point. Like RIT, and MU, =
Rutgers has on campus housing. Currently, Rowan University is planning =
on building on campus greek housing. Sadly, my campus is not. But if the =
school is taking upon itself the choice of giving Greek Housing, why =
shouldn't APO be allowed?
Its not a forced decision, and its not unto the chapter to pay or =
support a house(campus provided or not). Bylaws can be made, etc.=20
My simplistic example. 4 Brothers, (any gender), decide to rent a house =
off campus. It's their choice, no one from the chapter is responsible, =
but those 4 individuals. They maintain upkeep, etc. If there is a =
function, and food is provided, that is not the house owners =
responsibility, but the chapter's, as it would be, if it was taking =
place anywhere else. If the 4 people choose to move out, or live =
separately, or else where, the house no longer remains the APO house. =
But current rules forbid something being called the APO house.
Some issues raised:
1) Parents may have concerns over co-ed living. We're all big boys and =
girls now. Secondly, no one is forced to live in a house of any kind, =
unless they want/can afford to.
2)Tensions. As I said before, we're all big boys and girls. Often =
enough, brothers end up rooming together. There are issues, and they =
deal with them.
3)Cleaning/Maintenance. Homeowners are responsible for their own house. =
If they choose to host a function (it is their choice, since they =
own/rent the house), they can ask for help cleaning, or refuse future =
hosting.
4) Taking away from service. This shouldn't be an issue. The meeting is =
going to be held. As is the function. But its much easier to plan this =
way, when you don't have to worry about the campus giving you problems =
over availability. IF having a house takes away from service, there are =
more serious problems to worry about.=20
5)Internal problems. This may fall under tensions, but we are all big =
boys and girls, as I've mentioned earlier. We're grown up enough to deal =
with a problem, and hopefully not let it fall into APO business. But as =
I also mentioned, brothers have dormed together before. So its nothing =
new.
I can try to answer/suggest more things further down the road, but =
that's all I have time for currently.
Thank you all for your input, I enjoy this debate.
In LFS,=20
Dan
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rachel=20
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU=20
Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [APO-L] APO House rule
First of all, by stating "Chapter property" i was mostly referring to =
the property of the chapter located within the said office (ritual =
materials, furniture, papers, other misc. office things). Offices are =
not owned by the fraternity, but on the other hand, neither are all =
fraternity houses. Some fraternity houses are owned by universities as =
a way of controlling the Greek community. Rochester Institute of =
Technology in Rochester, NY recently built very nice fraternity/sorority =
houses on its campus. Miami University in Oxford, Ohio's sorority =
housing is all located in sorority dorms on campus. So who do they call =
when the roof leaks? they call campus maintenance. The university =
takes some of the liability off of the fraternity itself because it can =
more easily regulate what goes on in these places--i.e. they must be in =
compliance with university rules on alcohol, etc. Heavy penalties can =
be placed on these greek organizations not only by the national =
organization itself, but the university as well. Also, since it is =
University property, it's a lot like deciding whether to live on or off =
campus. If you do not live there, you don't pay the extra 1,000 or =
whatever per semester. I'm not saying that this is what APhiO should =
have, but it is a situation that may work on campuses where it is =
available. =20
Rachel Kuhn
Section 89 staff
Zeta Delta alum
Graduate student, Syracuse University School of Education
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I think Rachael managed to nail my =
original point.=20
Like RIT, and MU, Rutgers has on campus housing. Currently, Rowan =
University is=20
planning on building on campus greek housing. Sadly, my campus is not. =
But if=20
the school is taking upon itself the choice of giving Greek Housing, why =
shouldn't APO be allowed?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Its not a forced decision, and its not =
unto the=20
chapter to pay or support a house(campus provided or not). Bylaws can be =
made,=20
etc. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My simplistic example. 4 Brothers, (any =
gender),=20
decide to rent a house off campus. It's their choice, no one from =
the=20
chapter is responsible, but those 4 individuals. They maintain upkeep, =
etc. If=20
there is a function, and food is provided, that is not the house owners=20
responsibility, but the chapter's, as it would be, if it was taking =
place=20
anywhere else. If the 4 people choose to move out, or live =
separately, or=20
else where, the house no longer remains the APO house. But current =
rules=20
forbid something being called the APO house.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Some issues raised:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>1) Parents may have concerns over co-ed =
living. We're all big boys and girls now. Secondly, no one is =
forced to=20
live in a house of any kind, unless they want/can afford =
to.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>2)Tensions. As I said before, we're all =
big boys=20
and girls. Often enough, brothers end up rooming together. There are =
issues, and=20
they deal with them.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>3)Cleaning/Maintenance. Homeowners are =
responsible=20
for their own house. If they choose to host a function (it is their =
choice,=20
since they own/rent the house), they can ask for help cleaning, or =
refuse future=20
hosting.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>4) Taking away from service. This =
shouldn't be an=20
issue. The meeting is going to be held. As is the function. But its much =
easier=20
to plan this way, when you don't have to worry about the campus giving =
you=20
problems over availability. IF having a house takes away from =
service,=20
there are more serious problems to worry about. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>5)Internal problems. This may fall =
under tensions,=20
but we are all big boys and girls, as I've mentioned earlier. We're =
grown up=20
enough to deal with a problem, and hopefully not let it fall into APO =
business.=20
But as I also mentioned, brothers have dormed together before. So its =
nothing=20
new.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I can try to answer/suggest more things =
further=20
down the road, but that's all I have time for currently.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thank you all for your input, I enjoy =
this=20
debate.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>In LFS, </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Dan</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
<DIV=20
style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
<A title=3Diceangel99@yahoo.com =
href=3D"mailto:iceangel99@yahoo.com">Rachel</A>=20
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=3DAPO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU=20
href=3D"mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU">APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU</A> =
</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, August 28, 2003 =
11:24=20
AM</DIV>
<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Re: [APO-L] APO House =
rule</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2></FONT><BR></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>First of all, by stating "Chapter property" i was mostly =
referring to the=20
property of the chapter located within the said office (ritual =
materials,=20
furniture, papers, other misc. office things). Offices are not =
owned by=20
the fraternity, but on the other hand, neither are all fraternity=20
houses. Some fraternity houses are owned by universities as a =
way of=20
controlling the Greek community. Rochester Institute of =
Technology=20
in Rochester, NY recently built very nice fraternity/sorority houses =
on its=20
campus. Miami University in Oxford, Ohio's sorority housing is =
all=20
located in sorority dorms on campus. So who do they call when =
the roof=20
leaks? they call campus maintenance. The university =
takes=20
some of the liability off of the fraternity itself because it can more =
easily=20
regulate what goes on in these places--i.e. they must be in compliance =
with=20
university rules on alcohol, etc. Heavy penalties can be =
placed on=20
these greek organizations not only by the national organization =
itself,=20
but the university as well. Also, since it is University =
property, it's=20
a lot like deciding whether to live on or off campus. If you do =
not live=20
there, you don't pay the extra 1,000 or whatever per semester. =
I'm not=20
saying that this is what APhiO should have, but it is a=20
situation that may work on campuses where it is available. =20
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV>Rachel Kuhn</DIV>
<DIV>Section 89 staff</DIV>
<DIV>Zeta Delta alum</DIV>
<DIV>Graduate student, Syracuse University School of=20
Education</DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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