[23652] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Logo Issue, and side bar
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Michael Ryan Gallagher)
Sat Mar 29 15:54:03 2003
Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 15:53:28 -0500
Reply-To: Michael Ryan Gallagher <famtree@UDel.Edu>
From: Michael Ryan Gallagher <famtree@UDel.Edu>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Lack of consistency, so that we transform so fast that we fail to be a
coherent organization in terms of what we stand for, our symbols, etc. We
don't want to betray our purpose, and we don't want to induct anyone and
then that person disagree with us on a big issue later, especially Life
Members, who showed a commitment to us due to their experiences and our
ideals (or the "what the heck" factor). Believe me, I just straightened out
a misinterpretation of mine about this with another organization (a third,
not BSA). Sure, opinions change, especially in the traditional college
years, and we should be able to have some flexibility, but not so much as to
cause above-mentioned problems.
Like what you said, change this fast is not likely. Sure, a Fraternity of
Actives, but we don't want to alienate our other members to the point that
no one is willing to give back, but again, an extreme case.
I'm an Active saying all of this. I am also a Boy Scout leader, having aged
out, and it is this giving back that drives volunteering in such youth (not
a hard & fast rule) organizations. Fraternity of Actives, just like the
Boy-Led Troop. This is our purpose, to provide opportunities for the youth
(again, stretchable term) members (not to mention our own satisfaction and
other reasons).
That's all I was saying. Sorry that I think up extreme circumstances a bit
too often.
Michael Gallagher
----- Original Message -----
From: "Buddha Buck" <bmbuck@14850.com>
To: "Michael Ryan Gallagher" <famtree@UDel.Edu>
Cc: <APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU>
Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 11:05 AM
Subject: Re: [APO-L] Logo Issue, and side bar
> Michael Ryan Gallagher wrote:
> > Active Brothers changing something...one thing I see as a potential
problem
> > is that things could change every Convention as a new mix of Actives are
> > Members and a new mix of delegates some with even changed opinions from
> > previous points in time than they had before in their APO or life
> > experience...
>
> I fail to see the problem, potential or otherwise.
>
> At National Conventions, everything is potentially up for change; the
> active delegates could decide unanimously that rituals should, wherever
> possible, be held in public locations, or that it is allowed and
> recommended for rituals to be held in the nude, or that the purpose of
> the Fraternity is to seek, through peaceful and legal means, the
> replacement of the President of the United States as Head of State with
> a hereditary monarch. Are any of these likely? No.
>
> Every Convention has had a new mix of Actives and delegates. Given that
> the average "active" lifetime for a Brother is three semesters, and that
> the averate time between conventions is four semesters, the number of
> delegates who get to serve at two or more conventions is likely very low.
>
> Every active's opinions change over time with life experience. Our
> actives are college students, a time of their life when they are
> expected to be gaining lots of new experiences, new knowledge, new
> wisdom. If someone went through four years of college and didn't have
> at least some of their opinions change, I'd be very shocked.
>
> So.... since this is a Fraternity of Actives, a Faternity of Students,
> first and foremost... where is the problem with a changing mix of
> students, a changing mix of opinions?
>
> >
> > Michael Gallagher
> > Zeta Sigma Historian & Webmaster
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Finder, Randolph J Mr NGB-ARNG" <Randolph.Finder@ngb.army.mil>
> > To: <APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU>
> > Sent: Friday, March 28, 2003 10:38 AM
> > Subject: Re: [APO-L] Logo Issue, and side bar
> >
> >
> >
> >>>Here are what I see, from a heraldic viewpoint, the
> >>>differences between
> >>>(A) the original arms on the National Charter that Randy linked to in
> >>>his previous post, (B) the current arms as I see then today on the
> >>>National ebsite, and (c) the proposed "new logo":
> >>>
> >>>Between (A) and (B): 1) Three fleur-de-lis are changed to three
> >>>torches. 2) (uncertain) The shape of the remaining
> >>>fleur-de-lis changed
> >>>to be in sync with the BSA's usage. I don't know offhand if this is
> >>>significant. Does anyone know if the description of that element
> >>>changed in the ritual books when this change happened?
> >>
> >>No, but if anyone does have a handy copy of any of the pre-1932 ritual
> >
> > books
> >
> >>handy, I'd *love* to see it.
> >>
> >>
> >>>Between (B) and (C): The helm faceplate is closed as opposed
> >>>to open.
> >>>I forget if the textual description of the helm specifies open or
> >>>closed. If it doesn't, this might fall into the category of minor
> >>>artistic detail.
> >>
> >>Yes, the open helm is part of the textual description, but at the size
of
> >>those icons, who can tell.
> >>
> >>
> >>The general feeling I've gotten on these designs from people who have
> >
> > posted
> >
> >>run about half and half between "Over my dead body" and "Well if the
> >
> > active
> >
> >>brothers really want it, I guess I'll live with it." and that is without
> >
> > the
> >
> >>original poster even proposing them as replacements on the National
level
> >>rather than just cool icons that can be used on websites.
> >>
> >>Until someone gets up to the microphone and says "I want to change the
> >>official national coat of arms/crest to what is there", I think the
> >
> > argument
> >
> >>is more or less done...
> >>
> >>
> >>Randy
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
