[23093] in APO-L
Re: [APO-L] Felony
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Daniel Roberts)
Sat Nov 2 06:43:11 2002
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 06:51:55 -0500
Reply-To: Daniel Roberts <daniel_roberts@CORE.COM>
From: Daniel Roberts <daniel_roberts@CORE.COM>
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
In-Reply-To: <F32001085EA6D211B61B00805F6FE69E04EAD5F1@exchsv2.ogsnet.ogs.state.ny.us>
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Felony
-----Original Message-----
From: Alpha Phi Omega Discussion List [mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU]On
Behalf Of Vehlow, Richard
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:11 AM
To: APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU
Subject: [APO-L] Felony
Upon seeing this discussion, suppose this amendment were amended to read
"brothers must be found guilty of a crime of public record or an
institutional charge, including hazing, to be eligible for suspension or
expulsion".
[DJR>]
Key word here is ELIGIBLE. That is a reasonable criteria but certainly
should not be the only one. Prosecutorial descression, work priority and a
number of other factors IRRELEVANT TO ACTUAL GUILT can lead to a case being
dismissed or reduced. This should not be the controlling factor in the
fraternity making a decision. As a PRIVATE organization, not a government
agency, APHIO has every right to set it's own membership standards and to
enforce them without reference to the actions of a state agency.
As an aside, even when a government agency is involved the standards are
different. In professional licensing a state licensing agency may
discipline a licensee for being convicted of a crime OR for conduct that
would constitute a crime regardless of whether the licensee was every
charged criminally. As licensing is a civil procedure the agency only needs
to prove the accusation by a civil standard, not beyond a reasonable doubt.
The details of this vary by state and by agency, (i.e. some state agencies
follow this standard and some do not). HOWEVER, the position stated is
constitutionally sound.
Dan
Since it's staying at or below the level of felony, this amendment is
within the scope allowable for amendments to proposals.
Would this be more acceptable?
The argument about matters of trial taking too long to warrant this
stipulation, so as not to tie the fraternity's hands down is a bit flawed,
since it can take 2 years anyway to bring such an expulsion proposal up at
national convention.
-Rich Vehlow
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<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr=20
style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
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<DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Alpha Phi Omega =
Discussion=20
List [mailto:APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU]<B>On Behalf Of </B>Vehlow,=20
Richard<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 31, 2002 8:11 =
AM<BR><B>To:</B>=20
APO-L@LISTSERV.IUPUI.EDU<BR><B>Subject:</B> [APO-L]=20
Felony<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Upon seeing this discussion, suppose this amendment =
were=20
amended to read "brothers must be found guilty of a crime of public =
record or=20
an institutional charge, including hazing, to be eligible for =
suspension or=20
expulsion".<BR><SPAN class=3D530534211-02112002><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>[DJR>] </FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2><SPAN class=3D530534211-02112002><FONT face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff>Key word here is ELIGIBLE. That is a reasonable =
criteria but=20
certainly should not be the only one. Prosecutorial descression, =
work=20
priority and a number of other factors IRRELEVANT TO ACTUAL GUILT =
can=20
lead to a case being dismissed or reduced. This should not be =
the=20
controlling factor in the fraternity making a decision. As a =
PRIVATE=20
organization, not a government agency, APHIO has every right to set =
it's own=20
membership standards and to enforce them without reference to the =
actions=20
of a state agency.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D530534211-02112002>As an=20
aside, even when a government agency is involved the standards are=20
different. In professional licensing a state licensing agency =
may=20
discipline a licensee for being convicted of a crime OR for conduct =
that would=20
constitute a crime regardless of whether the licensee was every =
charged=20
criminally. As licensing is a civil procedure the agency only =
needs to=20
prove the accusation by a civil standard, not beyond a reasonable =
doubt. =20
The details of this vary by state and by agency, (i.e. some state =
agencies=20
follow this standard and some do not). HOWEVER, the position stated is =
constitutionally sound.</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530534211-02112002></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530534211-02112002>Dan</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D530534211-02112002></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Since it's staying at or below the level of felony, =
this=20
amendment is within the scope allowable for amendments to=20
proposals.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>Would this be more acceptable?</FONT> </P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>The argument about matters of trial taking too long =
to warrant=20
this stipulation, so as not to tie the fraternity's hands down is a =
bit=20
flawed, since it can take 2 years anyway to bring such an expulsion =
proposal=20
up at national convention. </FONT></P>
<P><FONT size=3D2>-Rich Vehlow</FONT> </P></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>
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