[9384] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2979 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Jun 25 12:08:20 1998
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 98 09:00:29 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 25 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2979
Today's topics:
[Q]: Finding File Modification date in Win32? <smcculla@netcom.ca.mx>
Can someone explain the arrow operator ? (Mike Mckinney)
Re: Can someone explain the arrow operator ? (Joel Coltoff)
Re: Can someone explain the arrow operator ? <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
challenge: put search into an array spostma@iserv.net
challenge: put search into an array spostma@my-dejanews.com
Re: challenge: put search into an array (Sean McAfee)
Re: challenge: put search into an array (Steve Linberg)
Re: challenge: put search into an array <dlaser@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
Re: challenge: put search into an array <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Re: challenge: put search into an array (Matt Knecht)
Gateway <aaron@soltec.net>
Re: help! : Arrays in Perl (Steve Linberg)
Need help using the Perl Compiler_a3 (kmkoh)
parsing MIME types (Philipp)
Perl and Delphi <todd@aristesoftware.com>
Re: Perl and Delphi <nguyend7@egr.msu.edu>
Re: Perl and Delphi <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Perlre needs patch? (was: searching with Perl ?) (John Moreno)
Re: regex error <dlaser@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
Re: system() and security again <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Greg Bacon)
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Brad Murray)
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (John Moreno)
Re: What a Crappy World birgitt@my-dejanews.com
Re: What a Crappy World (Brad Murray)
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World birgitt@my-dejanews.com
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World <ngouah@erols.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Re: Why I'm here (was Re: Flames....) (Steve Linberg)
Writing to COM ports with perl under Win95 <jon_lashua@3com.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:31:08 -0400
From: "Steve McCullagh" <smcculla@netcom.ca.mx>
Subject: [Q]: Finding File Modification date in Win32?
Message-Id: <6mtqa5$bbk@falcon.ccs.uwo.ca>
I get inconsistent results when using -M and stat() on Win32. Can anyone
suggest a simple, reliable way to check file dates on Windows NT??
TIA,
Steve <smcculla@ivey.uwo.ca.mx> (nix the .mx to get to me...)
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 98 15:19:44 GMT
From: mike@bga.com (Mike Mckinney)
Subject: Can someone explain the arrow operator ?
Message-Id: <slrn6p4qm1.9vv.mike@mike.local.net>
I've looked through the docs for all references I can find to the arrow
operator, and I've looked through "Learning Perl", but I can't seem to grasp
how the arrow operator works. Could someone give me some help and examples on
this ?
For what it's worth, I have seen code using the arrow operator in this group,
but it still is'nt clear to me.
TIA.
--
mikem@wans.net , mike@bga.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:38:11 GMT
From: joel@wmi0.wmi.com (Joel Coltoff)
Subject: Re: Can someone explain the arrow operator ?
Message-Id: <6mtqs9$qlf@netaxs.com>
In article <slrn6p4qm1.9vv.mike@mike.local.net>,
Mike Mckinney <mikem@wans.net> wrote:
>For what it's worth, I have seen code using the arrow operator in this group,
>but it still is'nt clear to me.
This arrow (=>) or this one (->)?
--
Joel Coltoff
I'd explain it, but there's a lot of math. -- Calvin
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:33:45 +0100
From: "F.Quednau" <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Can someone explain the arrow operator ?
Message-Id: <35926DD9.CDF64279@nortel.co.uk>
Mike Mckinney wrote:
>
> I've looked through the docs for all references I can find to the arrow
> operator, and I've looked through "Learning Perl", but I can't seem to grasp
> how the arrow operator works. Could someone give me some help and examples on
> this ?
The arrow operator isn't introduced in 'learning Perl' as that book does not
deal with references. Read the perlref page which should bring you a bit further
on understanding the arrow operator, which is basically something to
'dereference' a reference.
--
____________________________________________________________
Frank Quednau
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/~me51fq
________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:52:18 GMT
From: spostma@iserv.net
Subject: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <6mto73$6g2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
I am an experienced programmer and I'm trying to search a string for "name="
using this code.
$temp =~ s/.*name=(.*)/$1/;
and it works just fine. But when I have more than one occurrence of the
"name=", I need to put the results into an array. I have tried creating a
loop that puts $1 into an array, but it won't return any values.
Any thoughts??
Thanks, you help is greatly appreciated!
--Scott
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 14:50:33 GMT
From: spostma@my-dejanews.com
Subject: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <6mto3p$6fa$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
I am an experienced programmer and I'm trying to search a string for "name="
using this code.
$temp =~ s/.*name=(.*)/$1/;
It works just fine. But when I have more than one occurrence of the "name=",
I need to put the results into an array. I have tried creating a loop that
puts $1 into an array, but it won't return any values.
Any thoughts??
Thanks, you help is greatly appreciated!
--Scott
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:06:52 GMT
From: mcafee@qix.rs.itd.umich.edu (Sean McAfee)
Subject: Re: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <gItk1.1192$24.6547594@news.itd.umich.edu>
In article <6mto73$6g2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <spostma@iserv.net> wrote:
>I am an experienced programmer and I'm trying to search a string for "name="
>using this code.
>$temp =~ s/.*name=(.*)/$1/;
>and it works just fine. But when I have more than one occurrence of the
>"name=", I need to put the results into an array. I have tried creating a
>loop that puts $1 into an array, but it won't return any values.
I don't believe you can substitute and fill an array simultaneously, but
put this matching expression before you change the string:
@array = ($temp =~ /name=(.*)/g);
--
Sean McAfee | GS d->-- s+++: a26 C++ US+++$ P+++ L++ E- W+ N++ |
| K w--- O? M V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP?>++ t+() 5++ X+ R+ | mcafee@
| tv+ b++ DI++ D+ G e++>++++ h- r y+>++** | umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:22:37 -0400
From: linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
Subject: Re: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <linberg-2506981122370001@projdirc.literacy.upenn.edu>
In article <6mto73$6g2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, spostma@iserv.net wrote:
> I am an experienced programmer and I'm trying to search a string for "name="
> using this code.
>
> $temp =~ s/.*name=(.*)/$1/;
>
> and it works just fine. But when I have more than one occurrence of the
> "name=", I need to put the results into an array. I have tried creating a
> loop that puts $1 into an array, but it won't return any values.
>
> Any thoughts??
I don't know if regexes can do this. Since your search is simple, you
could do a loop using index() instead of the regex. There may be a regex
solution as well, but the index method would definitely work and probably
be faster.
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 16:19:35 +0100
From: Rob Hutchings <dlaser@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <yk3yaulzeyg.fsf@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
spostma@iserv.net writes:
>
> I am an experienced programmer and I'm trying to search a string for "name="
> using this code.
>
> $temp =~ s/.*name=(.*)/$1/;
>
> and it works just fine. But when I have more than one occurrence of the
> "name=", I need to put the results into an array. I have tried creating a
> loop that puts $1 into an array, but it won't return any values.
>
> Any thoughts??
I had to make some assumption about recognising the end of the result,
because the code you posted will match to the end of the string.
So I assumed that the result had to be a word.
Then this works:
@x = /name=(\w*)/g;
If each name= section is only terminated by the start of the next,
you could try
@x = split/name=/; shift @x;
HTH - Rob
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:22:35 +0100
From: "F.Quednau" <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <35926B3B.4104D21A@nortel.co.uk>
> It works just fine. But when I have more than one occurrence of the "name=",
> I need to put the results into an array. I have tried creating a loop that
> puts $1 into an array, but it won't return any values.
Why not?
open FILE, "< /u/quednauf/temp/testfile.txt" or die "Ouch: $!";
while (<FILE>) {
$temp = $_;
$temp =~ s/name=(.*)/$1/;
push @arr1, $1;
push @arr2, $temp;
push @arr3, $1 if /name=(.*)/;
}
close FILE;
foreach (@arr1) {print $_."\n"};
foreach (@arr2) {print $_."\n"};
foreach (@arr3) {print $_."\n"};
Works fine when used on file:
name=jones
name=jim
name=bloggs
prints out:
jones
jim
bloggs
jones
jim
bloggs
jones
jim
bloggs
--
____________________________________________________________
Frank Quednau
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/~me51fq
________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:42:39 GMT
From: hex@voicenet.com (Matt Knecht)
Subject: Re: challenge: put search into an array
Message-Id: <Pduk1.45$ja2.460304@news2.voicenet.com>
Sean McAfee <mcafee@qix.rs.itd.umich.edu> wrote:
>In article <6mto73$6g2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <spostma@iserv.net> wrote:
>@array = ($temp =~ /name=(.*)/g);
This won't work. The greediness of (.*) pulls all of $temp in,
including other 'name=' elements.
The same problem exists even if you use the zero-width positive
lookahead assertion ?=.
$str = 'name=first name=second name=third';
@array = ($str =~ /(?=name=(.*))/g);
for (@array) { print "$_\n" }
Gives me:
first name=second name=third
second name=third
third
Again, the greediness of .* pulls everything in, even though there are
other matches.
After playing around with regular expression syntax, I think the
clearest way to write this would be:
@array = split(/name=/, $str);
Which gives the expected:
$array[0] == first
$array[1] == second
$array[2] == third
And has the benefit of being extremly easy to read! :)
--
Matt Knecht - <hex@voicenet.com>
Anxiously awaiting a regex that will do this.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:49:14 -0500
From: "Just this guy, you know" <aaron@soltec.net>
Subject: Gateway
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.94.980625104742.24523B-100000@isis>
HI
I was wondering
is there a news to email gateway for comp.lang.perl.misc like there is for
the sendmail newsgroup?
Unfortunately, I can't read newsgroups at work, and would like to keep up
with this one
"Follow your dreams, you can reach your goals, I am living proof.
beefcake BEEFCAKE!"
-Eric Cartman
-South Park
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:08:55 -0400
From: linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
Subject: Re: help! : Arrays in Perl
Message-Id: <linberg-2506981108550001@projdirc.literacy.upenn.edu>
In article <35924387.A260745F@jmu.edu>, Justin Voshell <vosheljh@jmu.edu> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am pretty new with Perl an can't seem to find a function that will
> tell me the length of an array. Is there such a thing [there must be]?
There is, and it is clearly explained in the FAQ. Good luck!
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:36:09 GMT
From: kmkoh@pc.jaring.my (kmkoh)
Subject: Need help using the Perl Compiler_a3
Message-Id: <6mtqov$oo5@news2.jaring.my>
I am not able to compile a perl script using the
"dbmopen()" function, as below...
test.pl line 19: dbmopen(%DB, $dbfile, 0664);
The compilation seems ok, ... this is what I did:
% perl -Iblib/arch -MO=C,-otest.c test.pl
then followed by
% perl cc_harness -O2 -o test test.c
But executing the resulting binary gives this error message:
"No dbm on this machine at test.pl line 19"
Any help appreciated.
<kmkoh>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:09:04 GMT
From: philipp999@corpex.com (Philipp)
Subject: parsing MIME types
Message-Id: <35914075.29543841@nnrp.news.uk.psi.net>
Hi ya all!
I'm just about to write a small email client in perl. Does anybody
know of a good way to parse MIME types?
Any help much appreciated.
th
-philipp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:04:40 -0700
From: Todd Cary <todd@aristesoftware.com>
Subject: Perl and Delphi
Message-Id: <35926708.7BF0FCD2@aristesoftware.com>
Is the a library for Perl that can be run under Delphi?
Todd
--
Todd Cary
Ariste Software
todd@aristesoftware.com
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 15:02:23 GMT
From: Dan Nguyen <nguyend7@egr.msu.edu>
Subject: Re: Perl and Delphi
Message-Id: <6mtopv$e0q$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu>
Todd Cary <todd@aristesoftware.com> wrote:
: Is the a library for Perl that can be run under Delphi?
Why would you want to program in Delphi?
--
Dan Nguyen |
nguyend7@cps.msu.edu | Remember Byron.
http://www.cps.msu.edu/~nguyend7 |
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 16:25:47 +0100
From: "F.Quednau" <quednauf@nortel.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Perl and Delphi
Message-Id: <35926BFB.DCD41A@nortel.co.uk>
Dan Nguyen wrote:
> Why would you want to program in Delphi?
Maybe because it's a free world? (in theory)
Maybe because lots of stuff has been done on it, and you don't want to throw it
all away?
Maybe because it was one of the first things which did 'Visual programming'?
.
.
.
--
____________________________________________________________
Frank Quednau
http://www.surrey.ac.uk/~me51fq
________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:34:00 GMT
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Perlre needs patch? (was: searching with Perl ?)
Message-Id: <1db6dvx.1g9pg0f135qkqfN@roxboro0-052.dyn.interpath.net>
F.Quednau <quednauf@nortel.co.uk> wrote:
> Funny enough, the perlre page doesn't seem to explicitly state what g
> does, but I think I read between the lines that it is the global match
> operator.
You're absolutely right - both about what it does and about it not being
mentioned in perlre (at least not in the version I have).
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 15:51:40 +0100
From: Rob Hutchings <dlaser@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: regex error
Message-Id: <yk3zpf1zg8z.fsf@ermine.ox.ac.uk>
David D Winfield <dwinfield@arrissys.com> writes:
>
> Hi:
>
> I am having a bit of a problem with this regular expression and it looks
> ok to me. Surely clearer eyes will prevail.
>
> $Msg =~ /^(+\/.\;.)/;
> where
> $Msg = 123;MINUS pso.xxxxxxx/stuff/1221/;Another part of the string
> Any sugestions?
>
+ is a quantifier and only makes sense when attached to an atom;
\/.\; matches a /x; where x must be a single character;
and you're trying to match one character beyond the ;
It doesn't seem to have much connection with your sample record.
Perhaps you want something like /^(.+?\/.+?;)/ to match anything/else;
HTH - Rob
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 14:55:37 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <6mtod9$5hv$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
gml4410@ggr.co.uk (Lack Mr G M) writes:
: I usually work from a printed 5.002 copy of the documentation (I have
:later ones online) and this includes the use of system BLOCK LIST. All
:that seems to have been added is an example - the old documentation
:still mentioned that the use of this syntax forced LIST to be treated as
:multi-valued (and hence no shell-escapes).
Indeed. I don't know why people didn't read that part. I just
added a new example!
--tom
--
Mathematics: That branch of Human Thought which takes a finite set of trivial
axioms and maps them to a countably infinite set of unintuitive theorems.
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 15:02:38 GMT
From: gbacon@cs.uah.edu (Greg Bacon)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mtoqe$909$1@info.uah.edu>
In article <m3hg1a2xo0.fsf@windlord.stanford.edu>,
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
: I largely agree with Tom and others on the point of what I'd prefer this
: group to look like, but when I see people say things like this, I have to
: admit I start worrying. See, the first post I ever made to Usenet was
: three days after I started reading, before I read news.announce.newusers,
: and was badly miswrapped (not because I was using Microsoft trash, but
: because I had only been using vi for three days and it didn't work at all
: like EDT always did). Despite that, I got a very cordial welcome from the
: group I posted to.
Times have changed. It used to be that a group could take a new reader
under its wing or provide gentle advice. Today, the occasional
misinformed new poster is drowned out by a sea of AOLers.
vBNS is supposed to be non-commercial for at least a couple of years.
Perhaps there will be a good Usenet there. :-/
Greg
--
open(G,"|gzip -dc");$_=<<EOF;s/[0-9a-f]+/print G pack("h*",$&)/eg
f1b88000b620f22320303fa2d2e21584ccbcf29c84d2258084
d2ac158c84c4ece4d22d1000118a8d5491000000
EOF
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 07:54:43 -0700
From: murrayb@vansel.alcatel.com (Brad Murray)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mtobj$bge@cadre2.vansel.alcatel.com>
It seems Olga suggested...
>Most of these people do know what they need. They are experianced
>programmers in C++ and VB and such, but they are just picking up Perl.
>It's not like they were born yesterday and decided to learn Perl today.
>They've had plenty other programming experiance.
Where do you get that impression from? Most of the FAQs I've seen here
don't seem to have been posted by experienced programmers. Do you have
access to some statistics about posters here that I don't?
--
Brad Murray "The fall of modern man will be preceded by the
Software Analyst de-evolution of communications to the days of
Alcatel Canada oral tradition." --Tom Christiansen paraphrased
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:32:04 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
To: Brad Murray <murrayb@vansel.alcatel.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980625103104.14649B-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
That is the impression I got from talking to the people that did feel
insulted and threatened.
This is what they told me, this is what they do for a living, this is the
impression I got from discussing some issues with them.
Olga
On 25 Jun 1998, Brad Murray wrote:
> It seems Olga suggested...
> >Most of these people do know what they need. They are experianced
> >programmers in C++ and VB and such, but they are just picking up Perl.
> >It's not like they were born yesterday and decided to learn Perl today.
> >They've had plenty other programming experiance.
>
> Where do you get that impression from? Most of the FAQs I've seen here
> don't seem to have been posted by experienced programmers. Do you have
> access to some statistics about posters here that I don't?
>
>
> --
> Brad Murray "The fall of modern man will be preceded by the
> Software Analyst de-evolution of communications to the days of
> Alcatel Canada oral tradition." --Tom Christiansen paraphrased
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:34:10 GMT
From: phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <1db6ees.vs43l1dnmn4wN@roxboro0-052.dyn.interpath.net>
Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> wrote:
> Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> writes:
>
> > I have never advocated flaming based on formatting. Nor has anyone else
> > on the many threads involved in this discussion.
>
> Um, Craig, Tom *has* done that before. I even understand his points.
Well, I've seen his autoresponse to badly wrapped lines (somebody
complained about it a couple of months ago) but I don't think it really
qualifies as a "flame".
> > How did you do in terms of content in that first post? Was your post
> > topical, did it show you had done your homework before posting, and did
> > it conform with basic netiquette?
>
> It most certainly didn't conform with basic netiquette; the sig was too
> long, it was badly miswrapped, and I quoted too much.
None of these are likely to produce crushing flames - the sig really has
to be over 10 lines before most people will even mention it in most
groups, bad wrapping is a pain but more likely to get you referred to a
better newsreader than to be flamed, and quoting to much is a subjective
thing, unless it's a couple of pages for a one line response that is
also probably going to go without comment.
> It was at least reasonably on-topic and semi-intelligent. For the most
> part. I was lucky enough to run across a rec.* group first; were I
> posting to a comp.* group, it was likely far below the reasonable standard
> in terms of homework. It's easier to jump into a random rec.* group.
True.
> > My assertion is that any reasonable person will, with no external
> > prompting, produce a first Usenet post which conforms closely enough to
> > the above standards to avoid serious flames.
>
> I don't believe this is correct, from experience, for those people who
> don't lurk. Lurking is generally a personality thing; the most lip
> service I've ever personally given to the standard "read this group for a
> month before posting" is to read all of the existing backlog on my news
> server (which is currently about three weeks).
Hm, that seems to me to be quite sufficient - it's what I do. The
purpose of lurking is to find out what's been said before and to
familiarize yourself with the group. And as long as something isn't a
faq and hasn't been said/asked in the last two or three week then
bringing it up again shouldn't be a problem (hell even if it is a faq,
it shouldn't be a big problem if it hasn't been asked in that time).
--
John Moreno
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:06:44 GMT
From: birgitt@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mtp24$76g$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <ltra0e9kkx.fsf@asfast.com>,
Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> wrote:
>
> Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com> writes:
>
> > >>>>> "Lloyd" == Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> writes:
> >
> > Lloyd> If you don't want to be a "teacher" here in c.l.p.misc, then
> > Lloyd> don't do it. But if you have chosen that role for yourself,
> > Lloyd> then don't forget that almost each "newbie" that shows up here
> > Lloyd> is like a brand new second-grade student.
> >
> > The "news.announce.newusers" posts (which everyone is
> > required to read before their first post to Usenet) say "read the
> > group for a week or two minimum before posting". And within that
> > period of time, the FAQ, and meta-FAQ both come crawling through. You
> > should READ those. And that's plenty of opportunity to see *which*
> > posts get flamed, and which posts get results.
> >
> > I'm sorry, I'm really having a tough time understanding why *adults*
> > are unable to follow that plan. [ ... ]
>
[snip]
> > Newbies can get questions answered, plainly. They just need to do
> > some homework first.
> >
> > How hard can THAT be?
>
> Not hard at all.
>
> And I would add that regulars can choose to refer "newbies" to the
> FAQ and docs in a polite and respectful manner.
>
> How hard can THAT be?
>
> Given that many regulars are already polite in referring the "newbies"
> to the docs, I can confidently answer this question in the same way as
> above: Not hard at all.
>
Don't make it too hard on yourselves.
When I tried to blame a 'stupid, bad' (mostly meaning a tough) teacher in
my school as a child, my father used to reply:
Be grateful if you have a nice teacher, be more grateful if you
have a 'bad' one, they teach you how to handle life and grow up.
End of story.
And for the record, I think, for a volunteer group of teachers we
enjoy listening to, it is just a "Manna from Heaven" to be listening
to so many different tongues.
Birgitt Funk
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 1998 08:02:59 -0700
From: murrayb@vansel.alcatel.com (Brad Murray)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mtor3$bh8@cadre2.vansel.alcatel.com>
It seems Olga suggested...
>No one is implying that it is "grade-school" for perl, just that this is a
>place to ask questions and get responses from people. The one thing you
>can't get from even very good books. People seek human help and they are
>insted informed on a regular basis of their stupidity.
You overstate your case. The vast majority of FAQs seem to get answered
with the only mildly acidic form: "You mean other than the way described
in the manual you got with Perl?" This is hardly insulting.
How much flat out insulting have we actually seen here? And how much of
that was genuinely gratuitous and undeserving? Not much really. Not that
I've seen, anyhow, and I have auto-selected most of the people you seem to
feel are the worst offenders.
--
Brad Murray "The fall of modern man will be preceded by the
Software Analyst de-evolution of communications to the days of
Alcatel Canada oral tradition." --Tom Christiansen paraphrased
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:12:31 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506981112320001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <35914AA9.1DFF@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk>, Fred Riley
<f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk> wrote:
+ Stuart McDow wrote:
+ > "A basic understanding of the computer and its OS is assumed"
+ Uh-huh. And if you're not a Unix geek? If you're using Perl on Win95/NT?
There are books available...
+ If you're a Unix novice?
Again, there are books available. Most of them have indices. You do
know how to use an index?
+ Not everyone has access to Unix boxes,
Most everyone has access to Linux...and everyone has access to the
aforementioned books.
+ Not being privy to
+ the arcane and esoteric world of Unix doesn't disqualify a person from
+ asking questions about Perl.
I see...so you don't need to know about 'grep', eh?
James
perldoc -f grep | pod2text
grep BLOCK LIST
grep EXPR,LIST
This is similar in spirit to, but not the same as, grep(1) and
its relatives.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:16:50 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506981116510001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <359218c0.2149222@news3.newscene.com>,
f.h.riley@NOSPAMselc.hull.ac.uk (Fred Riley) wrote:
+ On a more general point, I think it's wrong to turn your nose up at
+ someone who's trying to get to grips with Perl (which has to be one of
+ the most cryptic and daunting programming languages to understand for
+ a novice) just because they're not very good at Unix. That smacks of
+ exclusivity to me.
I don't turn my nose up at those folks. I tell them to go learn to be
a programmer first, before attempting to tackle perl. Trying to learn
both perl _and_ programming, especially outside a formal training
environment, is nearly an insurmountable task.
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 15:23:56 GMT
From: birgitt@my-dejanews.com
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mtq2c$8vc$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <6mt0vf$ja$7@client3.news.psi.net>,
abigail@fnx.com wrote:
>
> Tom Christiansen (tchrist@mox.perl.com) wrote on MDCCLVIII September
> MCMXCIII in <URL: news:6mrikj$ol8$8@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>:
> ++ [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
> ++
> ++ In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> ++ Andrew Johnson <ajohnson@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> writes:
> ++ :Where do people get the notion that clpm is 'grade-school' for
> ++ :Perl (or for programming in general)? This is the fundamental
> ++ :error people are making.
> ++
> ++ I don't know where this notion comes from, but it is a curious one.
> ++ We don't want to scare people away, but they need to disabuse themselves
> ++ of this wacky idea.
>
> I'd prefer to see clpm as one of the ancient Greek schools.
> Scolars discussing in groups, gathered around the experts.
>
> (It is probably not, but that's the way how it should be)
hmm, after having had a tour through the campus, it seems to me
that the school board hasn't quite decided yet of being
kindergarden, grade school, highschool, college, West Point,
Academy of Performing Arts and Sciences, Carnegie Endowment or
the Brookings Institute. :-)
Birgitt Funk
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:31:46 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506981131460001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <ltd8byd3rx.fsf@asfast.com>, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com> wrote:
+ It's also a crappy world when teachers in elementary school (to re-use
+ my latest, favorite analogy <g>) dedicatedly give of themselves day in
+ and day out to teach second-graders the rudiments of reading, making
+ use of all the wonderful resources out there for teaching reading that
+ they and others have sweated and toiled to create, only to see another
+ crop of kids showing up next September who need to have it explained
+ to them as if they've never seen it before ... or as if they're being
+ a bunch of lazy freeloaders.
No, that's what the teachers get _paid_ to do. It's their _job_. If that
new crop didn't show up, they'd get pink slips instead...
+ If you don't want to be a "teacher" here in c.l.p.misc, then don't do
+ it. But if you have chosen that role for yourself, then don't forget
+ that almost each "newbie" that shows up here is like a brand new
+ second-grade student.
Then don't complain about my teaching style when I point them to the
Fine Document Set. You aren't the schoolboard.
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:35:49 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2506981135500001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <6mrnjp$9pj@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>, gebis@albrecht.ecn.purdue.edu
(Michael J Gebis) wrote:
+ I don't want to be forced to suffer doubly, quadruply, or septuply for
+ a bad question.
Then vote for the moderated newsgroup.
James
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 12:03:41 -0400
From: Ngouah A Nguiamba <ngouah@erols.com>
To: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <359274DD.3F4C@erols.com>
Olga wrote:
>
> Actually I think you missed this one.
> I fully realized that he was being sarcastic and I agreed with his
> sarcastic comment.
Would be nice if you could have noticed by now that it is
common practice to put your answers below/after the original
post you are answering to and not first/above/on top of it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 10:52:41 -0500
From: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <Pine.SOL.3.96.980625105134.20032A-100000@ux9.cso.uiuc.edu>
Well, you do it your way, and I'll do it mine.
Thanks for the hint though
Olga
On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Ngouah A Nguiamba wrote:
> Olga wrote:
> >
> > Actually I think you missed this one.
> > I fully realized that he was being sarcastic and I agreed with his
> > sarcastic comment.
>
> Would be nice if you could have noticed by now that it is
> common practice to put your answers below/after the original
> post you are answering to and not first/above/on top of it.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:07:37 -0400
From: linberg@literacy.upenn.edu (Steve Linberg)
Subject: Re: Why I'm here (was Re: Flames....)
Message-Id: <linberg-2506981107370001@projdirc.literacy.upenn.edu>
Hey, this is a great thread idea!
Why I'm here:
(a) 80% : To learn from people's questions and the answers provided by the
luminaries we all know. I have a fattening binder of Perl gems that I
study and practice with as I develop my knowledge and appreciation of
Perl. Tom Christiansen and Abigail have their own sections in this
binder. :)
(b) 15% : To occasionally answer non-FAQ questions that are simple enough
for me to help with, or for which I have code samples (of mine, 'natch) at
hand that I think are good enough to post. :)
(c) 4% : To occasionally suggest that people post irrelevant questions to
the proper groups, or direct people to resources like the FAQ and perl.com
and CPAN and so forth. (Well, this isn't what I come for, but it winds up
happening.)
(d) 1% : To very rarely post a question myself that I can't find the
answer to in the documentation or in sample code on the net in various
places. This is extremely rare these days.
Actually, in reality I'd say the numbers for (b) and (c) are probably
reversed, but I'd like them to be more like what they are, or further the
other way.
I will certainly lurk in clp.moderated (if and when - Tom C. seems to
think it may not fly. Any news?), but I will also occasionally venture
back into the mud of clp.misc and throw a few life preservers, just to
keep my net karma on the positive side.
Thanks to all from whom I learn!
_____________________________________________________________________
Steve Linberg National Center on Adult Literacy
Systems Programmer &c. University of Pennsylvania
linberg@literacy.upenn.edu http://www.literacyonline.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 25 Jun 1998 11:43:32 -0400
From: Jon Lashua <jon_lashua@3com.com>
Subject: Writing to COM ports with perl under Win95
Message-Id: <35927023.512B3615@3com.com>
Quick question: How do you direct output to a com port under perl on
a win95/DOS platform. thanks for any info.
-jon
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2979
**************************************
