[9371] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2966 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Wed Jun 24 16:09:01 1998
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 98 13:00:24 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Wed, 24 Jun 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2966
Today's topics:
Re: "truncate" heilp needed! (Larry Rosler)
Re: "truncate" heilp needed! <*@qz.to>
Re: 2 Minutes of your time gentleman !! <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: 2 Minutes of your time gentleman !! (Larry Rosler)
Colored report entries in Perl? (AgentNo007)
Re: Date Calculation Problems. <colin.riddle@scotmail.com>
Re: first language - last language dgris@rand.dimensional.com
Re: Flames.... <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Flames.... (T. Ames)
simple parsing question <wlemke@iris.nyit.edu>
Re: system() and security again <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: system() and security again (Larry Rosler)
Re: system() and security again <Jonathan_Epstein@nih.gov>
Re: the ?PATTERN? match syntax (Douglas Wilson)
variable lenghts in perl <jherman@imap4.lbl.gov>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Matt Knecht)
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (Matt Knecht)
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) (I R A Aggie)
Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!) <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Re: What a Crappy World <ajohnson@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Re: What a Crappy World <ljz@asfast.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What a Crappy World <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: What a Crappy World (T. Ames)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:17:17 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: "truncate" heilp needed!
Message-Id: <MPG.ffaf09454bb98f09896c4@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <359143D6.4F5A@21st-century-comm.com>, Mikhail Galbmillion
<galbmill@21st-century-comm.com> says...
> Hello,
> I have a problem using truncate function. What do I do wrong:
...
> open (LIMIT,">/tmp/limit") || die "\nCould not open /tmp/limit ";
...
> truncate("tmp/limit",2000);
Maybe 'truncate' isn't implemented on your system (see `perldoc -f
truncate`). You should error-check this function, like "all" other
functions that invoke operating-system functions.
In addition, you might try spelling the name of the file correctly. What
happened to the leading slash? Or you might truncate the file using its
handle LIMIT before closing it. Or you might put its name into a
scalar variable. Then you won't have to spell its name
correctly more than once :-).
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 19:43:26 GMT
From: Eli the Bearded <*@qz.to>
Subject: Re: "truncate" heilp needed!
Message-Id: <eli$9806241539@qz.little-neck.ny.us>
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Mikhail Galbmillion
<galbmill@21st-century-comm.com> wrote:
> open (LIMIT, ">/tmp/limit" ) || die ...
> chmod (0777, "/tmp/limit" );
> truncate( "tmp/limit" ,2000);
> if(open (LIMIT, "/tmp/limit" )){
Which of these is not like the others?
Elijah
------
hint: use variables for constant strings to avoid mistakes in any one of them
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 15:17:00 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: 2 Minutes of your time gentleman !!
Message-Id: <lt7m26d2z7.fsf@asfast.com>
"delta" <delta@netpage.tm.fr> writes:
> How could I avoid to get a "space line" type:
> ----------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------
>
> ---------------------------------
> when nothing is drop in a FIC
> Look at the PRINT FIC script
> and if nothing have been write in the titre3 field (or other field) , I get
> blank line in my FIC
>
> print FIC "$in{'lieu2'}\n";
> print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n";
> print FIC "--------------------------\n";
>
> [ ... etc. ... ]
One way to get the behavior you seek is to make the print statements
for the field values conditional:
print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n" if defined($in{'titre1'});
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
Or ...
print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n" if exists($in{'titre1'});
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
Or if all the fields are defined, but you want to skip the ones which
contain blanks, then this is probably better:
print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n" if $in{'titre1'} =~ m/\S/;
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
And if you wish to leave out the line of dashes that follow each of
the empty (or blank) fields, then this will also work:
unless ($in{'titre1'} =~ m/\S/) {
print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n";
print FIC "--------------------------\n";
}
There are a number of other ways to do this, as well.
You should check out the `perlsyn' documentation for a lot more
information about conditionals in Perl and other aspects of Perl
syntax (`man perlsyn' or `perldoc perlsyn').
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:38:19 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: 2 Minutes of your time gentleman !!
Message-Id: <MPG.ffaf5882dfd89819896c6@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
In article <lt7m26d2z7.fsf@asfast.com>, Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
says...
...
> One way to get the behavior you seek is to make the print statements
> for the field values conditional:
...
> print FIC "$in{'titre1'}\n" if $in{'titre1'} =~ m/\S/;
...
> unless ($in{'titre1'} =~ m/\S/) {
The submitter obviously didn't use '-w' when printing the nonexistent
hash values. As he should also be advised to do that (always), these two
examples should be modified to prepend
defined $in{'titre1'} && ...
to each of the conditions, before matching against the regex.
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 19:05:44 GMT
From: agentno007@aol.com (AgentNo007)
Subject: Colored report entries in Perl?
Message-Id: <1998062419054400.PAA16376@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Does anyone know if Perl has a way of printing certain colors on a report
output? I am writing Perl on Unix, and want the output to display different
colors on a report. The report entries are in rows, not columns.
For example:
Red line for entries with the string "Failure"
Yellow line for entries with the string "Retry"
Green line for entries with the string "Sucess"
Anyone know if there is a way? I am using X-windows, and the fonts are
customizable is that helps. Thanks in advance.
-Jonathan Gines
Sr. Engineer, UUNET Technologies
jsgines@uu.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 20:45:45 +0100
From: "Col" <colin.riddle@scotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Date Calculation Problems.
Message-Id: <35915824.0@news2.mcmail.com>
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
I've now installed Date::Manip into a directory on my space.
I've got one more question if you have time, running the routine DateCalc
returns the result into a variable $date which contains
1998122112:39:01
is there any way that I can split this into different variables, eg $year
$month $day etc. I know that you can split things on certain preset
separators eg splitting on &'s or \'s or something, but is it possible to
spilt on a number of characters?
Any help is appreciated and once again thanks for your reply.
--
Col
Colin Riddle
===============================================
colin.riddle@mcmail.com - http://www.col.mcmail.com/
colin@selectweb.co.uk - http://www.selectweb.co.uk/
icq : 1945235
===============================================
Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com> wrote in message
Pine.GSO.3.96.980623140835.3227G-100000@user2.teleport.com...
>On Tue, 23 Jun 1998, Col wrote:
>
>> I've looked through the faq's, used dejanews and searched on lots of
>> perl pages the answer seems to be to use date::Manip.
>
>> The problem is that my host can't (they are in some partnership thing
>> with 7thgate???) install the mod, I tried and obviously I don't have the
>> correct permissions setup to install it.
>
>If your sysadmin can't install software, get a new one. But section eight
>of the FAQ has information on keeping your own directory for modules. Good
>luck!
>
>--
>Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
>Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:56:19 GMT
From: dgris@rand.dimensional.com
Subject: Re: first language - last language
Message-Id: <6mrhgf$8ei$1@rand.dimensional.com>
[posted and mailed to the cited author]
In article <6mrfv3$2p7$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <birgitt@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> What is the *last* language all you experts would ever want to
> deal with ? Don't say there isn't one.
I'm not sure that I qualify as an expert, but the *last* language
I'd want to have to write in is C++.
Unfortunately, my current project requires it. *sigh*
>Birgitt Funk
Daniel
--
Daniel Grisinger dgris@perrin.dimensional.com
"No kings, no presidents, just a rough consensus and
running code."
Dave Clark
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 18:56:33 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Flames....
Message-Id: <6mri51$ol8$7@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno) writes:
:> Part of the problem here is that there are a group of Perl experts who
:> read this NG with no intention of ever asking questions of the group.
:
:That's probably because this isn't a help desk or even a simulation of
:it.
Funny how many of the parvenus miss this critical point, isn't it?
--tom, who just asked a question
--
I just hate to be pushed around by some fucking machine. - Ken Thompson, on the i960
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:27:23 GMT
From: ames0009@tc.umn.edu (T. Ames)
Subject: Re: Flames....
Message-Id: <35914ddd.8455196@news.tc.umn.edu>
On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 18:42:51 GMT, phenix@interpath.com (John Moreno)
wrote:
>That's probably because this isn't a help desk or even a simulation of
>it.
>
This is the biggest myth of all. I know you'd like to think this is a
place where experts can come to pat each other on the back, but that
is simply not the reality of this group. What is a helpdesk? Gee, I
think it is a place where people go to get help. Are you seriously
suggesting that people come here for some other reason? You can call
it "discussing the finer points of perl" or whatever you like, but
that is merely a semantic issue. People come here for help with perl,
from the novice to the expert, and in that sense, Yes, it is a
simulation of a helpdesk.
>And maybe it's because they like discussing the fine points of perl, but
>don't generally need help.
>
>> An oracle that will only deign to answer questions if they are posed in
>> just the right manner -- otherwise "hellfire and brimstone."
>
>The "right" manner is fairly broad, and those who ask outside the
>boundaries of "right' deserver hellfire and brimstone.
>
I'll define "right" for you: the way that YOU want. That seems to be
exactly what you are saying.
>No, it's not childish - it simply shows that you aren't serious and so
>don't deserve a serious answer.
The key here is the adjective "serious." Rather than, "they don't
deserve an answer," which is perfectly fine -- No one is forcing you
to answer anything -- you imply that they do deserve something else
(insults, flames, etc -- which I assume fall under the category of
"non-serious answers")
I love it when people complain about posters taking up there precious
time with their FAQable questions -- yet some always seem to have the
time to flame people, rather than just ignoring posts they think are
beneath them.
>John Moreno
T. Ames
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:57:04 +0100
From: William Lemke <wlemke@iris.nyit.edu>
Subject: simple parsing question
Message-Id: <3590DB80.20B0C159@iris.nyit.edu>
Hi,
I'm trying to do the following NT operation with
perl:
I'd like to take the output of "net view", which
looks like this:
D:\> net view
Server Name Remark
------------------------------------------------------------
\\computerone
\\computertwo
\\etc
\\etc
The command completed successfully.
Then map the drive of each of the listed
computers. To find out which drive letters are
being used, I'd also need to parse the output of
"net use", which looks like this:
D:\> net use
New connections will be remembered.
Status Local Remote Network
------- ----- ---------
----------
OK F: \\computerone\c$ Microsoft
Windows Network
The command completed successfully.
So, I'd need an array of all possible drive
letters, an array of mappable computers, and
finally, to isssue perl "system" commands to do a
"net use" operation to actually map all those
computers.
Anyone want to give me a pointer or two? I know I
could simply strip the first few lines from "net
view"s output, and then read each additional line
into the array, but I'm not sure how to do this.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 18:51:49 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <6mrhs5$ol8$6@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler) writes:
:My time and adrenalin are too valuable to be f***ed around with so
:glibly.
Then, Larry, might I respectfully suggest that you take a break?
It's a beautiful summer day here. I hope it is where you are, too,
and that you can enjoy this.
--tom
--
I've got plenty of inputs and outputs. I don't need the video. --Andrew Hume
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:25:47 -0700
From: lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler)
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <MPG.ffaf2932b34dd159896c5@nntp.hpl.hp.com>
[This followup was posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a copy was sent to
the cited author.]
In article <6mrhs5$ol8$6@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>, Tom Christiansen
<tchrist@mox.perl.com> says...
> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler) writes:
> :My time and adrenalin are too valuable to be f***ed around with so
> :glibly.
>
> Then, Larry, might I respectfully suggest that you take a break?
My wife just gave me the same advice, referring to "good stress" and "bad
stress". I'm not sure which this one is.
> It's a beautiful summer day here. I hope it is where you are, too,
> and that you can enjoy this.
It is always beautiful in Palo Alto (except this winter and spring;
thanks, El Nino). That's why we get to pay so extraordinarily much to
live here.
I'm sure this isn't good use of Usenet bandwidth for either of us,
though.
--
Larry Rosler
Hewlett-Packard Laboratories
http://www.hpl.hp.com/personal/Larry_Rosler/
lr@hpl.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:20:18 -0400
From: Jonathan Epstein <Jonathan_Epstein@nih.gov>
To: Larry Rosler <lr@hpl.hp.com>
Subject: Re: system() and security again
Message-Id: <35915172.A759BAD8@nih.gov>
I certainly agree with Larry. People who post negative/biting messages
because the newbies are wasting everyone's time should certainly not
post this sort of misleading/erroneous arrogant message.
I'm sure that I'm not the only c.l.p.m. reader who spent/wasted time
looking at the commonly available PERLFUNC references, as well as the
Camel book, searching for this "obvious" piece of information.
- Jonathan
Larry Rosler wrote:
>
> [This followup was posted to comp.lang.perl.misc and a copy was sent to
> the cited author.]
>
> In article <6mr7vu$htv$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>, Tom Christiansen
> <tchrist@mox.perl.com> says...
> > [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
> >
> > In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> > lr@hpl.hp.com (Larry Rosler) writes:
> > :It looks like 'system BLOCK LIST'
> >
> > As is documented in perlfunc; at least, in my version. :-)
>
> > In comp.lang.perl.misc,
> > Marc.Haber-usenet@gmx.de (Marc Haber) writes:
> > :> @cmds = "who";
> > :> system { $cmds[0] } @cmds;
> > :
> > :That seems like a trick. Can anyone explain what this does?
> >
> > The manpage?
>
> [snip]
>
> > As is documented in perlfunc; at least, in my version. :-)
>
> > The manpage?
>
> Where is the smiley on *that* response???
>
> Guy Decoux (decoux@moulon.inra.fr, who has been mentioned recently as
> having compassion) sent me the following by private email:
>
> " Extract from the new documentation of 5.004_68 (because apparently Tom
> Christiansen don't [sic] want to say it ) : ..."
>
> which explains the UNDOCUMENTED syntax Marc Haber and I asked you about.
>
> I think your supporters here today, such as F. Quednau, should add
> Sadistic to their analyses of your responses. It is the only appropriate
> way to describe this behavior:
>
> 1. Post intriguing syntax that is UNDOCUMENTED.
> 2. Blow away two inquiries about the syntax by pointing to the manpage.
> 3. The manpage in question is in 5.004_68.
>
> FOR SHAME!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:05:09 GMT
From: dgwilson@gte.net (Douglas Wilson)
Subject: Re: the ?PATTERN? match syntax
Message-Id: <6mril6$u3$1@news-2.news.gte.net>
On 19 Jun 1998 01:08:49 -0400, mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus) wrote:
>
>In article <6mce3p$96f$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
> <topher67@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
>>The match syntax "?PATTERN?" is very useful and should *not* be removed from
>>perl.
>
>OK. Why?
>When is ?...? useful? What do you do with it?
I just had an occasion to use it when I needed to count
blank lines at the beginning of a file:
while (<>) {
if (?^$?..?.?) {
$blanks++,next if /^$/;
}
if (/someother matches/../more matching/) {
}
}
Cheers,
Douglas Wilson
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 12:23:35 -0700
From: Jeffrey Herman <jherman@imap4.lbl.gov>
Subject: variable lenghts in perl
Message-Id: <35915237.70C1F198@imap4.lbl.gov>
I know this is more a perl module question but I was hoping someone here
could help me. I'm trying to use the Perl DBI modules to extract a long
raw field into a Perl variable. However, when I issue the sql commands
it gives me an error saying that the variable isn't large enough to hold
the extracted data. This is what the Oracle book says,
Cause: In a host language program, a FETCH operation was forced to
truncate a character string. The program buffer area for this column
was not large enough to contain the entire string.
Action: Increase the column buffer area to hold the largest column
value, or perform other appropriate processing.
When I issue the following commands:
$c = $h->prepare("select image_sample from image_table where image_id =
'im01'");
$c->execute;
($jpeg) = $c->fetchrow_array;
I get the following error:
There was an error ORA-01406: fetched column value was truncated (DBD:
ofetch rcode) at xjpeg line 23.
Does anybody know how to fix this problem?
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 19:06:30 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <6mrinm$9d6@fridge.shore.net>
Matt Knecht <hex@voicenet.com> wrote:
: Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
:>It's great to hear that moeny is not a concern to you, and that you do
:>this for fun, but the people you are insulting are truly not having too
:>much fun. In fact they are afraid to post any more questions to the
:>newgroups because of your ( and some other poeple's insults).
: This is _exactly_ what many people are trying to accomplish with terse
: referals to the FAQ and documentation. I'm sure they will all be glad
: to hear it's working. I know I am.
There's nothing wrong with referrals, terse or otherwise. It's the
gratuitous insults that bother some of us.
--Art
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/calendar.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:16:35 GMT
From: hex@voicenet.com (Matt Knecht)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <ngck1.35$t32.544407@news2.voicenet.com>
Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>So why not let these newbie people decide what they need.
Because they don't know what they need. This is exactly the type of
post that gets what you would call a flame. What they need is to look
at the docs and the FAQ, not a simple answer. A clueless post reveals
much more than the author has intended, and since there are _excellent_
teachers here, they see it, and get those people out of this newsgroup,
and back to the documentation where they belong (Sometimes, they get
sent back to look at programming ideas, not just Perl).
>If they feel they need a straight answer, they should be able to post
>ontheng in hopes of getting one.
Should they? The straightest answers out there is in the docs and FAQ.
Not in this newsgroup.
>If no body responds, then these people will take a hint. Pretty simple
You'd like to think so, but they don't. They post the same message over
and over, or they return to berate everyone for not answering them.
Again, this relates to how excellent the teachers here are. Not
answering is the wrong answer. Telling them in no uncertain terms that
they need to look at the documentation and FAQ is the best thing for
these people!
--
Matt Knecht - <hex@voicenet.com>
"496620796F752063616E207265616420746869732C20796F7520686176652066
617220746F6F206D7563682074696D65206F6E20796F75722068616E6473210F"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:43:31 GMT
From: hex@voicenet.com (Matt Knecht)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <DFck1.38$t32.563799@news2.voicenet.com>
Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net> wrote:
>: This is _exactly_ what many people are trying to accomplish with terse
>: referals to the FAQ and documentation. I'm sure they will all be glad
>: to hear it's working. I know I am.
>
>There's nothing wrong with referrals, terse or otherwise. It's the
>gratuitous insults that bother some of us.
Not to drag another analogy into the fray, but...
A child only touches a hot stove once.
Similarly, I believe it's hoped that an author will only post
misappropriatly once when flamed.
--
Matt Knecht - <hex@voicenet.com>
"496620796F752063616E207265616420746869732C20796F7520686176652066
617220746F6F206D7563682074696D65206F6E20796F75722068616E6473210F"
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 15:39:47 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2406981539470001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <Pine.SOL.3.96.980624133247.14133C-100000@ux7.cso.uiuc.edu>,
Olga <katzman@students.uiuc.edu> wrote:
+ If no body responds, then these people will take a hint.
Ummm...no. They'll just repost their question. Again. And Again. And Again.
Eventually, they'll run off in a snit, muttering about how unhelpful those
perl people are...
James
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 15:49:54 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World (oh, yes!)
Message-Id: <lt4sxad1gd.fsf@asfast.com>
cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry) writes:
> Olga (katzman@students.uiuc.edu) wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> : I don't think discouraging the public from learning is a very nice thing
> : to do. These people are trying, at least, and they seek help from people
> : that tend to be a little to arrogan at times.
>
> I'm sorry, but trying isn't sufficient. A six-year-old who incessantly
> screamed "What's this word?? What's this word??" during class would be
> ejected from the room, despite an evident desire to learn. Learning in a
> group forum -- a classroom, a newsgroup -- is a social endeavor, and
> certain social rules pertain.
I agree that those who come here and incessantly "scream" for help
should indeed be corrected. However, some regulars compose insulting
replies to first-timers who pose their frequently asked questions here
in a polite, respectful, non-screaming, and
impossible-to-be-incessant-because-it's-a-first-time-post manner.
Those who insult non-screaming, non-incessant first timers are the
ones to whom I'm addressing my posts in this and related threads.
However, I can't speak for others who also have been posting on these
topics.
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 18:43:10 GMT
From: Scratchie <upsetter@ziplink.net>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mrhbu$5ol@fridge.shore.net>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
: We do expect these resources to be used, however, before free handouts
: are requested. Otherwise, we get insulted that our work should be so
: disparaged. And you can see how we react to these insults. We tell them
: that thank you very much, but we already gave at the office. That is,
: the answer you seek is on your system.
Sometimes. Or sometimes you insult them for being so incredibly ignorant
that they didn't immediately know *which* of the 1000 pages of
documentation related to their problem, or that they dared try to program
in perl without knowing exactly how every app in /usr/bin works.
--Art
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
National Ska & Reggae Calendar
http://www.ziplink.net/~upsetter/ska/calendar.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 13:57:43 -0500
From: Andrew Johnson <ajohnson@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <35914C27.22767E72@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Lloyd Zusman wrote:
!
[snip]
! By the same token, those who have taken it upon themselves to be
! teachers here in c.l.p.misc should also practice the same
! patience and understanding that good elementary school teachers
! need to practice ... or else stop trying to be teachers in the
! first place.
Where do people get the notion that clpm is 'grade-school' for
Perl (or for programming in general)? This is the fundamental
error people are making.
regards
andrew
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 14:59:46 -0400
From: Lloyd Zusman <ljz@asfast.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <ltd8byd3rx.fsf@asfast.com>
fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie) writes:
> [ ... ]
>
> You're right, Olga, it is a Crappy World.
>
> Its a crappy world, when one writes several hundred pages of documentation,
> and answers to Frequently Asked Questions, bundled with perl and available
> to every person running perl, and the people who would most benefit from
> using it either can't, or frequently *won't* use it.
>
> Yep, that's pretty crappy.
It's also a crappy world when teachers in elementary school (to re-use
my latest, favorite analogy <g>) dedicatedly give of themselves day in
and day out to teach second-graders the rudiments of reading, making
use of all the wonderful resources out there for teaching reading that
they and others have sweated and toiled to create, only to see another
crop of kids showing up next September who need to have it explained
to them as if they've never seen it before ... or as if they're being
a bunch of lazy freeloaders.
If you don't want to be a "teacher" here in c.l.p.misc, then don't do
it. But if you have chosen that role for yourself, then don't forget
that almost each "newbie" that shows up here is like a brand new
second-grade student.
--
Lloyd Zusman ljz@asfast.com
perl -e '$n=170;for($d=2;($d*$d)<=$n;$d+=(1+($d%2))){for($t=0;($n%$d)==0;
$t++){$n=int($n/$d);}while($t-->0){push(@r,$d);}}if($n>1){push(@r,$n);}
$x=0;map{$x+=(($_>0)?(1<<log($_-0.5)/log(2.0)+1):1)}@r;print"$x\n"'
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 18:50:47 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mrhq7$ol8$5@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
Lloyd, are you of the opinion that this newsgroup exists for the
express purpose of helping people who don't read manpages? That
it's a Perl Beginners Free Helpdesk? Are you sure you want to
support that position?
--tom
--
And don't tell me there isn't one bit of difference between null and space,
because that's exactly how much difference there is. :-)
--Larry Wall in <10209@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jun 1998 19:04:51 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <6mrikj$ol8$8@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
Andrew Johnson <ajohnson@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca> writes:
:Where do people get the notion that clpm is 'grade-school' for
:Perl (or for programming in general)? This is the fundamental
:error people are making.
I don't know where this notion comes from, but it is a curious one.
We don't want to scare people away, but they need to disabuse themselves
of this wacky idea.
--tom
--
I think it's a new feature. Don't tell anyone it was an accident. :-)
--Larry Wall on s/foo/bar/eieio in <10911@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 19:38:19 GMT
From: ames0009@tc.umn.edu (T. Ames)
Subject: Re: What a Crappy World
Message-Id: <3591552f.10328814@news.tc.umn.edu>
On 24 Jun 1998 18:09:54 GMT, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
wrote:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
>In comp.lang.perl.misc, ames0009@tc.umn.edu (T. Ames) writes:
>:>I know I'm a pig-ignorant slut. --Andrew Hume
>:
>:I've noticed (and I'm not the only one) that you use your sigs. as a
>:means to further insulting people. This group is really taking an
>:ugly turn.
>
>Gosh no. I do no such thing! I don't even know what sig is there.
>It's something inews chooses for me.
>
>--tom
>
If that is the case, then I apologize. But you can see that in this
particular case, the sig. didn't look so good.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2966
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