[9084] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2702 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat May 23 10:17:34 1998
Date: Sat, 23 May 98 07:00:59 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 23 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2702
Today's topics:
Re: Clearly define "free software" (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Tim Smith)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Rodger Donaldson)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <agulbra@troll.no>
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Fergus Henderson)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Adam Spiers)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (Howard Goldstein)
How can I add members to AV <jll@skynet.be>
Re: How to execute a system command from Perl (NT) (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni)
Re: LABOR CRISIS: Perl SW Guru NEEDED MA Intranet Start (Snowhare)
Re: More double standards out of the FSF <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Overriding UNIVERSAL::VERSION to support RCS revision n <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Re: Overriding UNIVERSAL::VERSION to support RCS revisi <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Perl and JavaScript problem <cb@austria-travelservice.com>
PERL Newbie Question (Ken Adams)
Re: Quiet summary <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Selena Sols db_search Script an Comma delimited datafil (Axel Wittrowsky)
software dictatorship (Fergus Henderson)
Re: Suggestion Re: GNU attacks on the open software com (Tim Smith)
Re: to read CSV into an array and back into CSV/perlTK (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni)
Re: Tom Christiansen (Olaf Titz)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 09:08:21 GMT
From: Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu (Stefaan A Eeckels)
Subject: Re: Clearly define "free software"
Message-Id: <6k63m5$dlh$1@justus.ecc.lu>
In article <6k5k7a$83j$1@venus.mcs.net>,
les@MCS.COM (Leslie Mikesell) writes:
> In article <6k3dap$6k3$1@justus.ecc.lu>,
> Stefaan A Eeckels <Stefaan.Eeckels@ecc.lu> wrote:
>
>>Your suggesting that linking the program in order to make it
>>run infringes the GPL is thus plain wrong.
>
> Yes. You have to distribute all the components required except
> those supplied with standard operating systems under the same
> GPL terms or you can't distribute any of it (unless you are the
> copyright owner and not under its restrictions). Wrong or not,
> that's what it says.
The linchpin of this discussion is that I, as the author of a
piece of software, can apply *any* type of license I want. When
I release software that links with a $20,000 proprietary library
under the GPL, that's OK, because *it is my program*. You, on
the other hand, cannot take *my* GPL'd program, modify it to
run with said library, and distribute it. You can however,
use it for your own purposes. The GPL fullfills its intended
purpose - to stop *you* from making *my* program less free[1].
Now I would not, usually, release a GPL'd program that needs
an expensive proprietary library, because that would make it
useless for my intended audience. Pretty easy to follow, no?
The GPL doesn't limit the freedom of the author in any way.
It cannot, because the author cannot be forced to place her
work under the GPL - doing so is a free[2] choice.
The GPL *does* restrict the right of the licensee, as do all
licenses, but only that he cannot impose further restrictions
to anyone he gives the software to, and that he should offer
modifications he made to the software under the same terms as
the original license. You'll have to admit that that's a lot
more liberal than any commercial license (these most often limit
the number of copies you can make for your own purposes, and
anyone using a decent backup scheme is usually in breach of
the license).
If I, as author, do not want to place the GPL's restriction on
my licensees, I can freely[2] choose to apply a BSD style
license (which just requires the licensee to maintain my
copyright notices) or place it in the public domain.
Again, IANAL, but my uncle is ;-)
[1] in the FSF sense.
[2] unfettered.
--
Stefaan
--
PGP key available from PGP key servers (http://www.pgp.net/pgpnet/)
___________________________________________________________________
Williams and Holland's Law: If enough data is collected,
anything may be proven by statistical methods.
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 10:32:37 GMT
From: ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <895919557.620468@cabal>
In <u1h1ztmz5co.fsf@ten-thousand-dollar-bill.MIT.EDU> tb@mit.edu (Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG) writes:
[...]
>Worse still, if I am redhat, I cannot distribute perlfaq at all.
What is stopping you from distributing perlfaq if you are redhat?
--
I'm a perl programer; if you need perl programing, hire me.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia; see the url. Support NoCeM
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html http://www.cm.org/
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 04:18:46 -0700
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k6bam$cl$1@halcyon.com>
Abigail <abigail@fnx.com> wrote:
>Oh, please. Blame me instead of Tom, because it was I who lifted it
>from the web page.
>
>But here's the entire webpage, except for the navigation and
>copyright sections:
...
> * good free manual for Perl. (There are proprietary books, but
> these are no good, because they are being withheld from our
> community by their owners.)
...
><URL: http://www.gnu.org/prep/tasks_3.html>
Unless you have rather strange browsing habits, you didn't start at that
page. You came in from other pages that provided ample opportunity to
see what FSF means by "free".
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:39:10 +0000
From: rodgerd@orwell.rm.gen.nz (Rodger Donaldson)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <slrn6mddau.1q7.rodgerd@orwell.rm.gen.nz>
On 23 May 1998 10:32:37 GMT, ? the platypus {aka David Formosa}
<dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au> wrote:
>In <u1h1ztmz5co.fsf@ten-thousand-dollar-bill.MIT.EDU> tb@mit.edu
(Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG) writes:
>[...]
>
>>Worse still, if I am redhat, I cannot distribute perlfaq at all.
>
>What is stopping you from distributing perlfaq if you are redhat?
Hmm...
[rodgerd@orwell rodgerd]$ perldoc perlfaq
PERLFAQ(1) User Contributed Perl Documentation PERLFAQ(1)
NAME
perlfaq - frequently asked questions about Perl ($Date:
1997/04/24 22:46:06 $)
DESCRIPTION
This document is structured into the following sections:
perlfaq: Structural overview of the FAQ.
This document.
the perlfaq1 manpage: General Questions About Perl
Very general, high-level information about Perl.
[...]
[rodgerd@orwell rodgerd]$ uname -a
Linux orwell.rm.gen.nz 2.1.101 #7 SMP i586
I can't see it myself. And I haven't heard TC abusing Red Hat lately.
--
Rodger Donaldson rodgerd@ihug.co.nz
The Pinguin Patrol
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:10:16 +0200
From: Olof Oberg <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <3566CAB8.4AB7EBFD@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Has anyone asked RMS to make it more obvios what he means with
'free' (like a link) on the task list? I doubt he is trying
to con anyone when he takes every chance he gets to explain
what 'free software' is.
/mill
--
#############################################################
# millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se # http://pedgr571.sn.umu.se/~mill #
#############################################################
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 15:01:25 +0200
From: Arnt Gulbrandsen <agulbra@troll.no>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <m37m3dcfa2.fsf@lupinella.troll.no>
tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith)
> Unless you have rather strange browsing habits, you didn't start at that
> page. You came in from other pages that provided ample opportunity to
> see what FSF means by "free".
Using a search engine is hardly a "strange browsing habit".
--Arnt
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 11:54:10 GMT
From: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <6k6dd2$a9f$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
hgoldste@mpcs.com (Howard Goldstein) writes:
>Your and Tom's exchange remind me of an example of the opposite doc
>example I ran into around 2.5 years ago.
>
>In the Linux Programmer's Manual section on (IIRC) IPC were a pair of
>trivial and smallish 15 or so line example on creating a SYSV message
>queue. Both examples were prominently tagged with a GPL license.
>
>I'm not sure why these (and other) examples in a manual demonstrating
>basic, important features of an o/s were themselves GPLd.
One possible reason why they may have been GPL'd is that the person
writing the documentation may have copied the examples from GPL'd
programs.
--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au> | "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3 | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 13:37:21 +0100
From: adam@thelonious.new.ox.ac.uk (Adam Spiers)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <6k6fu1$i52$1@thelonious.new.ox.ac.uk>
In article <wwvra1nf448.fsf@sfere.greenend.org.uk>,
<rjk@greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> Dear Tom,
>
> I was very disappointed to see you posting a message with the subject
> line "GPL documentation == unspeakable evil". I've only been familiar
> with Perl for a few years, but over that time yours is one of the
> names I've come to respect as an important contributor to the Perl
> world. But when I saw what you posted, I have to admit that the first
> word that sprung to mind was "kook".
>
> I don't like it when people who I have come to respect start to behave
> in ways that I feel are irrational.
[snip]
> I have very little time for the "you shouldn't say <whatever> because
> it's divisive (or whatever)" attitude; there's little chance of people
> understanding each other's viewpoints if no-one ever states them. But
> I would urge you to think very carefully about what you are trying to
> achieve, and how best you can achieve it, before posting further
> inflammatory remarks on this topic.
You have stated your respect for Tom and obviously appreciate
not only the enormous contributions he's made to Perl but also
his enormous intellect (let's not beat about the bush here :-).
Why, then, do you assume that Tom has not thought very carefully
about what he is trying to achieve? Personally, I am
consistently impressed with how his postings reflect an
extremely well thought out set of ideals and beliefs; his
behaviour seems entirely logical to me. So I suggest, with
respect, that maybe you only feel that Tom is behaving
irrationally because you don't quite understand all the issues
at stake.
I can understand you being put off by his emotional language,
but I suspect that if your written work had been abused like
some of his has, you would feel as strongly as he does about
those issues, so please try not to let it bother you. The
important issues are not how emotional the language is, but what
the language is trying to say.
If I understand the issues correctly myself (and please correct
me if I'm wrong, which is entirely possible as I haven't had
enough time to follow the whole discussion), Tom's main
objection to the Perl documentation being GPLed is that it
restricts how people can use the code examples from it in their
own code. In other words, he wants the Perl documentation to be
"free" in an even stronger sense than the GPL! How anyone can
object to this I have no idea.
Of course, to "give away" documentation in this extremely "free"
way leaves the author's trust in people not to do the wrong
things with it open to abuse. Hence Tom is also quite
understandably concerned that he should not be abused as he has
been before as a result of making these remarkably generous
gifts to the community. Sadly, some people (not you of course)
seem to be misinterpreting this concern and stating that Tom is
only concerned with his own gain, or other ridiculous
assertions.
--
/* Adam Spiers, Computing Officer, New College, Oxford University, UK */
#! perl -l-0, 'cello, jazz, cycling, juggling, Linux, security, anti-M$
open$[;$;=q,,,$-++?$?:($#=lc<0>),$==$=>>++$* ,$-++,map{($k=ord)-=$=+$*,
$c=($k&$-+$*)<<$*,$k>>=$-;$;.=($#=~m[^.{$k}(.{$c})])[$[],$#=$'}(split//
=>(q,.";7=/43+':,)[$===$[]);;s;;$\;;,y$k, /u*$c@.kau$&&s&||/\&&print&e;
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 13:44:16 GMT
From: hgoldste@mpcs.com (Howard Goldstein)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <slrn6mdklg.dqi.hgoldste@bbs.mpcs.com>
On 23 May 1998 11:54:10 GMT, Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au> wrote:
: hgoldste@mpcs.com (Howard Goldstein) writes:
: >I'm not sure why these (and other) examples in a manual demonstrating
: >basic, important features of an o/s were themselves GPLd.
:
: One possible reason why they may have been GPL'd is that the person
: writing the documentation may have copied the examples from GPL'd
: programs.
Extremely sensible speculation. However, all of the examples carry
copyrights crediting one of the manual's co-authors, freeing
the author from a duty to reproduce another's notice.
--
The ants are my friends, they're blowing in the wind
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:11:45 +0200
From: Jean-Louis Leroy <jll@skynet.be>
Subject: How can I add members to AV
Message-Id: <VA.00000061.015bd7a7@enterprise>
Hello,
my XSUB-based package internally uses an array. I need to store some
information ( a couple of ints) in addition to the array's content. Of
course, I could reserve the first slots in the array to hold those
values, but I'm looking for something more efficient.
I took me an hour to realize that reallocating the AV won't work (they
seem to be allocated from a special pool that is not managed by the
MM).
I also considered adding magic to the array, however, there seems to be
no av_magic. Why? perlguts says that hv_magic "simply calls sv_magic
and coerces the gv argument into an SV", but I dare not assume the same
holds for AV's. Also, it looks like overkill...
The xpvav seems to be allocated from the heap though. I tried
reallocating that, and it seems to work. But I'm in undocumented waters
here.
Can anybody give me advice and point me in the Right Direction? TIA...
Jean-Louis Leroy
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/jl_leroy/
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 11:45:42 GMT
From: jkekoni@cc.hut.fi (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni)
Subject: Re: How to execute a system command from Perl (NT)
Message-Id: <6k6ct6$lok$2@hiekkalaatikko.cs.hut.fi>
Bob Trieger (sowmaster@juicepigs.com) wrote:
: perldoc -f system
: perldoc -f exec
perldoc -f open
man Open3
--
_- Joonas Kekoni OH2MTF I -_
_-internet: jkekoni@cc.hut.fi I DO NOT EAT. -_
_-slowmail: j{mer{ntaival 7a176 I -_
_- 02150Espoo I It is a monitor -_
_- Finland/Europe I -_
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 13:27:33 GMT
From: snowhare@devilbunnies.org (Snowhare)
Subject: Re: LABOR CRISIS: Perl SW Guru NEEDED MA Intranet Start-up 80K+>+Equity
Message-Id: <6k6is5$7re$1@supernews.com>
Nothing above this line is part of the signed message.
In article <6k1rqf$9k4$1@mainsrv.main.nc.us>, <scott@softbase.com> wrote:
>You wanna know why there's a so-called "labor crisis"?! Here it is:
>
>> Required Skills/Experience:
>
>> Qualified candidates will have following skills:
>> - 5+ years of Perl experience including
>> - Significant experience with CGI scripts and DBMS access
>> - Experience delivering multiple releases of a Perl based product
>> - Experience with object oriented Perl
>> - 2 years developing for the Web, including HTML and CGI development
>> - Experience with C++
>
>5 years experience or MORE? With Perl? Has CGI even existed 5 years?
Yes. To both questions. Note that the two questions are orthoganal.
Perl != CGI
And there *is* a _severe_ shortage of guru class Perl and CGI
programmers. Many (most?) companies can't get one at *ANY* price.
Followups narrowed.
Benjamin Franz
Version: 2.6.2
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J3PwnRujxU/gUDYhcPipa3+MwEIhwA4UEnZyUOnAJOXmF7fVwNNOC/Q+5F0fECqy
AjanuA6z+bOXYIFOOrcBVye1U6yb8CYuw+/QT+GXwvBKcIwXjE/k0avKAKYiLyga
Ebp5tiE9XwU=
=0svz
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 10:03:23 GMT
From: ? the platypus {aka David Formosa} <dformosa@st.nepean.uws.edu.au>
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <895917803.295460@cabal>
In <m3pvh6n5dl.fsf@windlord.Stanford.EDU> Russ Allbery <rra@stanford.edu> writes:
[...]
>>I would just call my version PerlFixed or something
>> like that if I fixed a bug in Perl.
>I would presume that if you fixed a bug in Perl, you would submit the
>patch back the maintainers rather than simply forking your own version.
>As a matter of simple politeness.
OTOH what if it was something like a signal safe verson of perl that
delayed the execution of the signal handler. This would not be accpeted
into the main perl source as it would brake things, however it would be
understandable that an alternative verson of perl would be distrabuted.
Also if I addapted perl quite radicaly, to say run on alian war cyborgs.
In doing so I have to change the behavour of some of the functions (kill
for one thing means a totaly diffrent thing) I would have to rename this
dalek of perl something else.
However I would think it fair that I would issue a compleat set of
documentaion plus a set of further docs outlining where my verson and the
standard verson differ.
--
I'm a perl programer; if you need perl programing, hire me.
Please excuse my spelling as I suffer from agraphia; see the url. Support NoCeM
http://www.cit.nepean.uws.edu.au/~dformosa/Spelling.html http://www.cm.org/
I'm sorry but I just don't consider 'because its yucky' a convincing argument
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 11:29:17 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Subject: Overriding UNIVERSAL::VERSION to support RCS revision numbers, anyone?
Message-Id: <895923403.898790@thrush.omix.com>
$ perl -M'CGI::Validate 1.9'
CGI::Validate version 1.9 required--this is only version 1.10
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted.
Well this is no good, no good at all... :-(
I thought about changing my $VERSION regexp to something more
like I've seen in some other modules:
$VERSION = sprintf "%d.%02d", q$Revision: 1.1 $ =~ /(\d+)\.(\d+)/;
But this doesn't handle rollover just after 1.99, 1.199, etc. It
also doesn't handle multi-value revision numbers such as 1.5.3.
Unless I can find a clean method of munging $VERSION to work
with all RCS values, I fear I might have to override VERSION with
my own RCS compliant version. This would basically walk the
requested value and the value of $VERSION by splitting them on '\.'
to do the compare.
Has anyone delt with this before? Got any ideas for munging
$VERSION instead of overloading UNIVERSAL::VERSION()? Or if I
must, have some code already available to overload VERSION properly
for RCS?
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 12:24:37 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org>
Subject: Re: Overriding UNIVERSAL::VERSION to support RCS revision numbers, anyone?
Message-Id: <895926723.700975@thrush.omix.com>
Zenin <zenin@bawdycaste.org> wrote:
>snip<
I give up. I can't override UNIVERSAL::VERSION to be useful anyway
because it's argument get's munged to a non-useful state before
reaching it ("1.100" gets passed as 1.1, lame). So, I'm using:
$VERSION = sprintf "%d.%03d", q$Revision: 1.1 $ =~ /(\d+)\.(\d+)/;
This of course will work through version 1.999, then throw a fit
again.
I'd still love a suggestion of how to use 1.2.3 format correctly
though.
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 13:54:21 +0200
From: Christian Beer <cb@austria-travelservice.com>
Subject: Perl and JavaScript problem
Message-Id: <3566B8ED.219C6F6B@austria-travelservice.com>
Hi
I'm trying to write a perl program that opens a window in
JavaScript. The script is supposed to start another cgi program and put
the outcomming information in that window. It looks like this.
print <<_POST_;
$city $hotel $stars <a href=\"info.cgi?$link\"
onClick=\"window.open(\'info.cgi?$link\',
\'info_window\',
\'scrollbars=1,resizable=1,width=500,height=300\');
return false;
\"
>
more information</a>
<p>
_POST_
The problem is that this script only seems to work with the latest
Netscape browsers. In Explorer 3 and 4 there is a error message. Does
anybody know a script that will work with most browsers?
Much obliged for any help
Christian Beer
cb@austria-travelservice.com
http://www.austria-travelservice.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:19:24 GMT
From: kerebrusFSPAM@bigfoot.com (Ken Adams)
Subject: PERL Newbie Question
Message-Id: <3565eb70.11559088@news.bfp.net>
I haven't done any Perl yet, but I'm wondering how to do this (should
be fairly simple);
Have a perl script check the server's time, and if the time is between
2pm and 6pm, then it prints a line or two of HTML code.
Can anybody give me the quickie solution to this? Thanks!
Ken
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 15:52:23 +0200
From: Olof Oberg <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Subject: Re: Quiet summary
Message-Id: <3566D497.1F812F58@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Bill Anderson wrote:
> documentation is not software.
So? Tom C. implied that FSF's definition of 'free' wasnt
particular but peculiar. I just showed that even perl.com has
references to the very same definition and are promoting it
but under another name.
Tom C.'s documentation is free of charge but not free in the
FSF sense. FSF wants documentation to be free according to their
definition (the reason for it is irrelevant in this dicussion).
So they put it on their task list.
There is nothing to whine about but (maybe) the wording of the
paragraph on the task list. A mail to RMS about it would probably
have solved it without starting this flame war.
/mill
--
#############################################################
# millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se # http://pedgr571.sn.umu.se/~mill #
#############################################################
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 11:32:02 GMT
From: awit@metronet.de (Axel Wittrowsky)
Subject: Selena Sols db_search Script an Comma delimited datafiles
Message-Id: <3566b1df.261232@pop-news.metronet.de>
Hi everybody.
Currnetly I4m using db_search 6.0
Three short questions:
1. How to read Comma-delimited datafiles with data in "quoties"
without printing them out in the search-results page?
2. Does anybody encoutered problems in searching date based entries
and the comparison to each other?
3. What4s the correct code to change date-handling from the
"American-Style" (MM/DD/YYYY) to "European Style" (DD.MM.YYYY)
Thank you for answers?
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 11:50:08 GMT
From: fjh@cs.mu.oz.au (Fergus Henderson)
Subject: software dictatorship
Message-Id: <6k6d5g$a6i$1@mulga.cs.mu.OZ.AU>
cmcurtin <cmcurtin@interhack.net> writes:
>What bothers me about the GNU community is that there is a level of
>arrogance in assuming that the One True Way(tm) of software
>development (and apparently documentation, as well!) is based on what
>Eric Raymond calls the Bazaar model. Making such an assertion is
>absolutely stupid. Projects that operate in what Eric calls the
>"Benevolent Dictatorship" mode have produced significant pieces of
>work. The *BSD operating systems. XEmacs. Apache. Perl.
Benevolent dictatorship is fine so long as you have a reasonably simple
way to escape from the clutches of the dictator if they should become
malevolent rather than benevolent. This is true of BSD, Emacs and
XEmacs (as the Emacs/XEmacs split shows), gcc (as the gcc/egcs split
shows), and Apache. It's also mostly true of Perl. However, if
Tom C. should happen to lose it, then what? As far as his documentation
goes, then we'd be screwed.
Now it is his documentation, of course, and it's his choice as to how
he releases it. But he should not be surprised or upset if others feel
his current licensing conditions are not sufficient for their purposes.
>If something in Perl is broken, why not submit the patch to fix it,
>and relevant documentation to p5p? If Tom--or whomever the keeper of
>the relevant document is--doesn't like it, let the keeper change his
>documentation to reflect the program's functionality in the way he
>likes, just as you'll be allowing the keeper of the software you've
>modified the opportunity to incorporate your changes?
Most of the time that approach works fine. But I think it is important
to make sure that we're not going to be completely screwed if the
occaision should arise when it doesn't work fine,
>The FSF did not create Perl. The FSF has no business telling the Perl
>community how to do its work.
The FSF has not been telling the Perl community how to do its work.
--
Fergus Henderson <fjh@cs.mu.oz.au> | "I have always known that the pursuit
WWW: <http://www.cs.mu.oz.au/~fjh> | of excellence is a lethal habit"
PGP: finger fjh@128.250.37.3 | -- the last words of T. S. Garp.
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 04:30:48 -0700
From: tzs@halcyon.com (Tim Smith)
Subject: Re: Suggestion Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k6c18$f1$1@halcyon.com>
David Kastrup <dak@mailhost.neuroinformatik.ruhr-uni-bochum.de> wrote:
>> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
...
>Interesting what sort of things you call "courtesy" copies. Anyhow,
>they are rather deprecated especially in open disussions like these
>because they cause the author to first do a private reply, then have
>to redo a reply in the news as well.
The courtesy copies he sends have the same notice on them, so that's not
really a problem.
--Tim Smith
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 11:20:45 GMT
From: jkekoni@cc.hut.fi (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni)
Subject: Re: to read CSV into an array and back into CSV/perlTK books in print and the meaning of life
Message-Id: <6k6bed$lok$1@hiekkalaatikko.cs.hut.fi>
Franz Kaufmann (ws97-868@wsrz1.wiso.uni-erlangen.de) wrote:
: 1)How can I read a CSV file delimited with arbitrary delimiters mnot only
: ":" and "\n" into an array?How can I write an array as a CSV file?
Here is a short example:
------------------------------------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
#common
$/="\n"; #line separator
my $sep=","; #column separator
my @table; #[][]
#read
foreach $_ ( <>)
{ chomp($_);
# s{$/$}{}gxo;
my @tmp=split( $sep , $_ );
push(@table,\@tmp);
}
#write
my ($a,$row,$column);
foreach $row ( @table)
{ foreach $column ( @{$row})
{ print $column.$sep; #side efect all lines end with $sep
}
print $/;
}
----------------
for people not so familiar with perl pointer(untested)
-----------------
#read
my $a,$b,$t;
$b=0;
foreach $_ ( <>)
{ chomp($_);
$t=0;
foreach $a ( split( $sep , $_ ))
{ $table[$b][$t]= $a;
$t++;
}
$b++;
}
#write
my ($a,$row,$column);
my ($t,$r);
for($t=0;$t<=$#table;$t++)
{ $r=0;
while( defined $table[$t][$r] )
{ print $table[$t][$r].$sep;
#side efect all lines end with $sep
$r++;
}
print $/;
}
--
_- Joonas Kekoni OH2MTF I -_
_-internet: jkekoni@cc.hut.fi I DO NOT EAT. -_
_-slowmail: j{mer{ntaival 7a176 I -_
_- 02150Espoo I It is a monitor -_
_- Finland/Europe I -_
------------------------------
Date: 23 May 1998 13:19:24 +0200
From: olaf@bigred.inka.de (Olaf Titz)
Subject: Re: Tom Christiansen
Message-Id: <6k6bbs$gjg$1@bigred.inka.de>
Thomas Bushnell, n/BSG <tb@mit.edu> wrote:
> I don't think this discussion is going anywhere.
I'm taking the opportunity to point out (again) that this applies to
every thread which ends up with one of the participants' name in the
Subject line.
olaf
--
___ Olaf.Titz@inka.de or @{stud,informatik}.uni-karlsruhe.de ____
__ o <URL:http://www.inka.de/~bigred/> <IRC:praetorius>
__/<_ >> Just as long as the wheels keep on turning round
_)>(_)______________ I will live for the groove 'til the sun goes down << ____
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2702
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