[9047] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2665 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu May 21 15:07:26 1998
Date: Thu, 21 May 98 12:00:36 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 21 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2665
Today's topics:
"Tee" question <orange19@rocketmail.com>
Re: "Tee" question <JKRY3025@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
.= food for thought? (Belg4mit)
Re: Any build-in function to get the host name? (Earl Hood)
Re: case insensitive checks, a=b (Craig Berry)
Re: Credit card help jasong@creditnet.com
Finding Holidays <pcheimets@cfa.harvard.edu>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Dave Barr)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Paul D. Smith)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Dave Barr)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Dave Barr)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Paul D. Smith)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Chris Adams)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Paul Neubauer)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Paul D. Smith)
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community <jlarke@anthem.aa.ans.net>
Re: GNU attacks on the open software community (Chris Nandor)
Help with Perl and Ingres (Trey Valenta)
matching problem (Belg4mit)
Re: More double standards out of the FSF <sbo@nortel.ca_NO_SPAM>
Re: More double standards out of the FSF <ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Re: Perl for Windows is important, and comments on COM (Stuart McDow)
Re: Perl SW Guru NEEDED MA Intranet Start-up 80K+>+Equi <thomasm@net1plus.com>
pod2html: inconsistent links for =item (Sitaram Chamarty)
possible error in 'advanced perl programming' <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Re: possible error in 'advanced perl programming' (Mike Stok)
Re: possible error in 'advanced perl programming' (Sean McAfee)
Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob st (Bob Kline)
Proposal for new template for pack (Gabor)
Suggestion Re: GNU attacks on the open software communi <jlarke@anthem.aa.ans.net>
Re: Text File Manipulatoin (Steve McNabb)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 21:08:21 +0300
From: "Gil" <orange19@rocketmail.com>
Subject: "Tee" question
Message-Id: <6k1qgm$hgq$1@news.ibm.net.il>
I need to print to STDOUT, STDERR and a file at the same time.
I have no problem redirecting stdout by:
open (STDOUT, " | tee filename");
but when I try
open (STDERR,">STDOUT");
in order to get the stderr directed to the same place,
it doesn't seem to work.
I do not want to direct the stderr directly to the file, because I need it
on the screen too.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
+gil
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:43:33 -0700
From: Jan Krynicky <JKRY3025@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
Subject: Re: "Tee" question
Message-Id: <3564F465.16DD@comenius.ms.mff.cuni.cz>
Gil wrote:
>
> I need to print to STDOUT, STDERR and a file at the same time.
> I have no problem redirecting stdout by:
> open (STDOUT, " | tee filename");
> but when I try
> open (STDERR,">STDOUT");
> in order to get the stderr directed to the same place,
> it doesn't seem to work.
>
> I do not want to direct the stderr directly to the file, because I need it
> on the screen too.
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> +gil
It should be
open (STDERR,">&STDOUT");
HTH, Jenda
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:56:43 GMT
From: belg4mit@aol.com (Belg4mit)
Subject: .= food for thought?
Message-Id: <1998052118564300.OAA16795@ladder01.news.aol.com>
Why doesn't Perl have a .= ? Seems like ot would be rather useful.
By that same token, why not =. ? .= is one of the few operators where
it would be useful to have the operation done in reverse... += & =+ are
the same... the only other one I can think of is /= & =/
Food for thought
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:08:09 GMT
From: ehood@geneva.acs.uci.edu (Earl Hood)
Subject: Re: Any build-in function to get the host name?
Message-Id: <6k1qi9$e7m@news.service.uci.edu>
In article <6k0fh4$9ir$1@comdyn.comdyn.com.au>,
Martien Verbruggen <mgjv@comdyn.com.au> wrote:
>In article <6k0604$r1u$1@titan.globalserve.net>,
> lidong@globalserve.net (Alex Dong Li) writes:
>> Is there a build-in function to get the host name?
>
># perldoc perlfaq9
>/How do I find out my hostname/domainname/IP address?
I wonder why Sys::Hostname does no try POSIX::uname in its
attempts to get the hostname?
--ewh
--
Earl Hood | University of California: Irvine
ehood@medusa.acs.uci.edu | Electronic Loiterer
http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/ | Dabbler of SGML/WWW/Perl/MIME
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 17:06:08 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: case insensitive checks, a=b
Message-Id: <6k1mu1$e86$1@marina.cinenet.net>
Ala Qumsieh (aqumsieh@matrox.com) wrote:
: You might also want to use regexps like so:
:
: if ($a =~ /$b/i) {
: # do your stuff
: }
Better make that /^\Q$b\E$/i . Otherwise $a = 'abcde' will compare
'equal' to both $b = 'cd' and and $b = 'q?', for example.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:23:27 GMT
From: jasong@creditnet.com
Subject: Re: Credit card help
Message-Id: <6k1reu$ov2$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
In article <1998052017100200.NAA11730@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
hubris3@aol.com (HUBRIS3) wrote:
>
> I am trying to help a small business set up a web page.
> (www.dacepublishing.com) They would like to set up a credit card form to
take
> credit cards over the net. We have a secured site and server but I am not
> advanced enough to know how to set up the form and bin. Any help on this or
> suggestions on the site please e-mail hubris3@aol.com or post here! Thank
you,
> Hubris3
>
Hubris3,
We can assist you in setting this up. Credit Card Network provides realtime
credit card processing. Check us out at http://www.creditnet.com or call us at
888.286.2394. We look forward to working with you.
jasong@creditnet.com
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:13:43 -0400
From: Peter Cheimets <pcheimets@cfa.harvard.edu>
Subject: Finding Holidays
Message-Id: <35646ED7.881AF07C@cfa.harvard.edu>
Is there a perl program or subroutine that given a date will determine
if it is a holiday, or a program that will return a list of the holiday
dates for a given year?
Thanks
Pete
--
Peter Cheimets
Smithsonian Astrophysical Observatory
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:10:42 GMT
From: barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k1qn2$1bv$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
In article <6k02ha$hq6$3@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>,
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> wrote:
>In comp.lang.perl.misc, cadams@ro.com (Chris Adams) writes:
>:A couple of years ago they attacked Linux, trying to rename it "Lignux",
>:and when that was blasted for stupidity, they wanted to call it
>:GNU/Linux. If they had wanted to be real and give credit where credit
>:was due, it would have been Linux/GNU/BSD/Perl/X/etc., but they wanted
>:GNU/Linux (GNU before Linux).
>
>Which is even stretching it. But please, you've got to be kidding. What
>an insulting joke that would be if true! Surely something has been lost
>in the telling. I can't believe they would be so arrogant, mendacious,
>and disrespectful.
Yep.
Chris's retelling is short and pointed, but correct.
If you look at GNU's web page, every reference to Linux is "GNU/Linux".
If you look at virtually any Linux page, Linux is "Linux", or maybe
"Foo Linux", where "Foo" is a particular distribution.
RMS in this regard is as bad as Bill Gates. No, I'm serious. They
both have diametrically opposed goals, but will use any means to
achieve them. Microsoft slept while the Internet took off, then turned
around and will make you believe they invented the damn thing. GNU slept
while Linux took off, and then RMS turned around and tried to make you
believe that GNU made Linux (or at least made it possible). It's all
spin-doctoring, and it's wrong. (It's quite telling to see Linus's
conversations on this subject)
--Dave
--
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 14:11:33 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <p5d8d7biju.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% news@russo.org (Chris Russo) writes:
cr> Excellent work by RMS. It still doesn't mean that people in
cr> general will automatically understand what you mean by "free".
cr> I know that I was confused by the corrupted use of the word "free"
cr> when I started reading this thread.
Please note that this whole thing started by someone finding a note in
one of the FSF's quarterly bulletins, then posting it to p5p which then
migrated over here. It was not posted to p5p or to this group by the
FSF, and as far as I can tell they've not been involved in this thread
at all.
Maybe it's just me, but I think the FSF can be forgiven for using this
term in the manner to which they and their users have become accustomed
over many years within their own news bulletin.
cr> Why try to bend the English language to your group's wishes? Why
cr> not just use the language correctly and be understood?
The language _IS_ being used "correctly"; the term "free" _can_ mean
what RMS uses it for. The problem is that it can mean other things,
too.
Perhaps it would be more PC for the bulletin to say that they'd like
"GPL'd documentation", rather than "free documentation", but it is their
news bulletin, presumably read only by people familiar with the FSF and
their philosophy and politics.
Perhaps if people reading it would simply mentally make this
substitution, lots of flaming could be avoided.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:34:19 +0200
From: Olof Oberg <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <356473AB.7BAD443E@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Matthew R. Williams wrote:
> Ex-squeeze me?
>
> The kernel doesn't look like it's heavily influenced by GNU anything.
> Linus wrote that from scratch.
>
> And as far as the bells and whistles of an OS, silly things like
> bash, emacs, etc...well, shit. Some of that will compile for
> WinDoze boxes, won't it? So let's call Bill Gates and have him
> call his boxes GNU/Windows systems.
How many use the Linux kernel without those 'silly' things?
Gotta be a wonderful experience and oh so productive.
/mill
--
#############################################################
# millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se # http://pedgr571.sn.umu.se/~mill #
#############################################################
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:25:54 GMT
From: barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k1rji$1k8$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
In article <6k1fdp$ehj$2@schenectady.netmonger.net>,
<chris+usenet@netmonger.net> wrote:
>will (quite naturally) say "If you want to support the FSF, buy books
>from us instead of from that company".
And have you seen their books? They're utterly pathetic. Before
ORA, free software was relegated to the few who could sneak it past
their bosses (or those who didn't have bosses, or ones that didn't care).
Today, after years of hard effort by everyone, free software finally
has some clout. You'll never see RMS give ORA any credit for *that*.
There is a time and place for commercial companies. Even RMS will
tell you support is one such area. Documentation certainly can
be another -- it's one form of support. Certainly nobody's suggesting
we should be put in a position where you have to pay for documentation
for a free product, but everyone knows that it takes a a lot of things
for people to write *good* documentation. If it means paying a few
bucks for a good book, so be it.
--Dave
--
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:27:54 GMT
From: barr@cis.ohio-state.edu (Dave Barr)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k1rna$1l4$1@news.cis.ohio-state.edu>
In article <m2iumzybc6.fsf@bigglesworth.isdn.uiuc.edu>,
Matthew R. Williams <mrw@uiuc.edu> wrote:
>One of the cool parts about FSF stuff is that you can use it to make
>proprietary stuff, and the GPL doesn't propagate with the stuff.
Be careful with the word "use" here. You can't use GNU code in
your commercial, proprietary stuff, but you can, say, use gcc
to build your commercial, proprietary stuff. A big difference.
--Dave
--
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/~barr/
barr@cis.ohio-state.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 14:32:40 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <p57m3fbhkn.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% cls@seawood.org (Christopher Seawood) writes:
cs> Paul D. Smith (psmith@baynetworks.com) wrote:
cs> : But it appears to me that Tom's documents aren't free by _ANY_
cs> : commonly-accepted definition of "free" in the software industry.
cs> :
cs> : They aren't free as in "public domain".
cs> : They aren't free according to the BSD license.
cs> : They aren't free according to the GPL.
cs> : They aren't free according to the Artistic License.
cs> : They aren't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.
cs> : They aren't free according to the Open Source Definition.
cs> :
cs> : It seems to me that _Tom_ is the one using the uncommon definition of
cs> : "free", not RMS.
cs> Each of the documents you posted refer to software which perl
cs> documents, although in electronic format, are not.
Hmm. So it's _less_ confusing if we apply one meaning for "free" when
we're talking about the software itself, and a different one when we're
talking about documentation for the software?
I get it.
cs> (And just a nitpik, you missed the Qt free license which also has
cs> a no-modify clause. And last I checked they were part of the
cs> software industry.)
The Qt license is not "common"--is there anything but Qt itself released
under it? (note KDE isn't, for example.)
Likewise, I didn't put up the MPL, either, even though Tom's documents
aren't free according to the MPL.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:32:47 GMT
From: cadams@ro.com (Chris Adams)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <6k1s0f$o8d$1@news.ro.com>
According to Andi Kleen <ak@muc.de>:
>mrw@uiuc.edu (Matthew R. Williams) writes:
>> The kernel doesn't look like it's heavily influenced by GNU anything.
>> Linus wrote that from scratch.
>
>But the kernel would have never existed without gcc and binutils.
It also wouldn't have existed without Minix, as the original versions
were cross compiled and used the Minix filesystem. Does that mean we
should rename it Minix/Linux?
--
Chris Adams - cadams@ro.com
System Administrator - Renaissance Internet Services
I don't speak for anybody but myself - that's enough trouble.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 13:17:03 -0500
From: prn@bsu.edu (Paul Neubauer)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <MPG.fce39ac165bdf3e98969e@news.bsu.edu>
I have read this entire thread, or at least as much of it as the usenet
gremlins have seen fit to deliver to my site. I'll backtrack now to a
spot where I would like to add my $0.000002 worth:
In article <p5som3br54.fsf@baynetworks.com>, psmith@baynetworks.com
writes...
> OK, so Chris and Tom are upset that when RMS writes "free" in his posts,
> it doesn't mean what they think of as "free".
>
> But it appears to me that Tom's documents aren't free by _ANY_
> commonly-accepted definition of "free" in the software industry.
>
> They aren't free as in "public domain".
> They aren't free according to the BSD license.
> They aren't free according to the GPL.
> They aren't free according to the Artistic License.
> They aren't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.
> They aren't free according to the Open Source Definition.
>
> It seems to me that _Tom_ is the one using the uncommon definition of
> "free", not RMS.
On the contrary, they ARE free in at least the following senses -- the
docs themselves are "free of charge" and the code examples contained
therein are additionally free for any use (commercial or otherwise) as
long as original authorship is not claimed by the user. Those meanings
of "free" may not correspond exactly with any of the others cited by Paul
Smith, but they are not chopped liver either.
Tom C has expressed his intention to clarify certain points of confusion.
It's clear that he disagrees with the FSF version of "free" and that's
his privilege. Personally, I could be happy enough using virtually any
of the licensing schemes, but I can also see that there are significant
differences among them, rendering some of them more suitable or less
suitable for various purposes. The biggest objection that I can see
anyone raising to Tom's preferences is the perceived inability of someone
to document whatever changes might possibly need to be documented.
So, Tom, what might you think of adding to your licensing terms something
vaguely resembling the following (which I have inserted in an obvious
point):
| make its way into a revision of the Camel Book. While it is
| * copyright by me with all rights reserved, permission is granted
| * to freely distribute verbatim copies of this document provided
| * that no modifications outside of formatting be made, and that
| * this notice remain intact.
This document must be distributed intact with no deletions permitted.
Any addenda, whether interpolated, added at the end, or otherwise
distributed along with this document must be clearly marked as separate
in origin.
| You are permitted and encouraged
| to use its code and derivatives thereof in your own source
| code for fun or for profit as you see fit. But so help me,
While my wording is probably not what you would pick, it seems to me that
this would meet both your (Tom's) needs for authorial protection and the
needs/desires of others to modify the docs. For example, if Tom referred
in his docs to something that no longer applied to whatever I had
modified, I might feel compelled to create an addendum or separate
document explaining why, but I might also feel that I ought to add a
notice at or very near the point where Tom presented his explanation.
I would be tempted, under those circumstances, to add something
resembling:
*******************************************************
* NOTICE: (by prn, not Tom Christiansen)
* The preceding section does not apply to the present distribution
* in ways described in the document README_PRN.TXT. Please read
* that file for the relevant modifications.
*******************************************************
It seems to me that it is a bit of a stretch to call this a "formatting"
modification, but it seems to me that allowing something of this sort
would have effects similar to those of "critical" or "editorial" notes in
a literary context. No one would miss any of Tom's words or ideas. No
one would mistake my words or ideas for his, just as they would not
mistake the words of the (possibly crackpot) Shakespearean scholar for
the Bard's own words. And (importantly) no one would (or should) give
the same importance to the words of Paul Neubauer (an unknown in the Perl
world) as to the words of Tom Christiansen. On the other hand, they
would also be warned at a critical point that I had been mucking around
with something that might have important consequences. Now they should
also not be using my software if they did not have *some* level of
confidence in me, but as Tom has been quite clear about, I should not be
mucking about with his prose.
What do you think, Tom? Would something like this be acceptable to you?
It strikes me as being in line with what I believe you have said, but I
have been known to be wrong before.
I do attempt to read this newsgroup regularly, but we do have a long
weekend approaching and considering both that and the fact that our
newsfeed is considerably less than 100% reliable, I would be grateful for
e-mailed copies of any responses to this article, whether by Tom or
anyone else who wishes to contribute. adv10Qance.
Paul
--
Paul Neubauer prn@bsu.edu
http://nova.bsuvc.bsu.edu/prn/
PGP Public Key at http://nova.bsuvc.bsu.edu/prn/key.html
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 14:27:08 -0400
From: psmith@baynetworks.com (Paul D. Smith)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <p5af8bbhtv.fsf@baynetworks.com>
%% smcnabb@interlog.com (Steve McNabb) writes:
sm> 2) The GPV does, in fact, make it a violation to copy-and-paste
sm> code from examples (ummmmm -- that's the whole _point_ of code
sm> examples!) into a program that is sold for profit.
sm> ...etc etc etc...
Um, no. Not even close.
The GPL does _NOT_, in fact, make it a violation to copy-and-paste code
from examples into _anything_: that right is gauranteed by the "fair
use" articles of copyright law. Please go read the Berne Conventions
and other similar docs; the WIPO web site is a good place to start.
Second, even if the GPL _did_ contain such a restriction, the licensing
of the GPL has absolutely _NOTHING_ to do with selling for a profit: you
are perfectly free to make a profit on any program you like regardless
of how much GPL'd code is in it.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paul D. Smith <psmith@baynetworks.com> Network Management Development
"Please remain calm...I may be mad, but I am a professional." --Mad Scientist
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are my opinions--Bay Networks takes no responsibility for them.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 20:55:28 +0200
From: Olof Oberg <millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <356478A0.F511425@SPAMludd.luth.se>
Christopher Seawood wrote:
> (And just a nitpik, you missed the Qt free license which also has a no-modify
> clause. And last I checked they were part of the software industry.)
I think a FreeQt is on the task list too but I dont see TrollTech
posting here about how free really means gratis and that RMS
is 'evil'.
I think this whole discussion is lame. If RMS wants to urge
people to write GPLed documentation of Perl I say go ahead. I
would think there're far more important things to do but atleast
it is consistent with the philosophy of FSF. Which is what
RMS bases his decisions on (I guess). Further what is the
purpose of these license wars. I can see why Tom C. dont want
people to leech of his work, which is why he uses the license
he does. To whine about others wanting to create the same with
a, for them, better license is.. well.. It would be like RMS
whining about MS making a proprieraty clone of Emacs. I doubt
he would (though he would tell everyone about his opinion on
proprieraty software - as always ;-) ).
/mill
--
#############################################################
# millNO@SPAMludd.luth.se # http://pedgr571.sn.umu.se/~mill #
#############################################################
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:49:29 GMT
From: Jason Larke <jlarke@anthem.aa.ans.net>
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <vatlnrv4fyl.fsf@anthem.aa.ans.net>
>>>>> On Thu, 21 May 1998 07:13:16 GMT, Barry Margolin
>>>>> <barmar@bbnplanet.com> said:
BM> I disagree. Program documentation is utilitarian, it's not
BM> artistic or rhetorical prose (if you want to write a poem
BM> about Perl, or an opinion paper explaining why you think RMS
BM> is evil, I expect RMS will support your right to put a more
BM> restrictive copyright on it). Its utility is based primarily
BM> on its accuracy in describing the program. If you allow
BM> modifying the program, but not the documentation, the
BM> documentation is significantly less useful. Your copyright
BM> on the documentation doesn't even allow it to be translated
BM> into another language (although I doubt that you would refuse
BM> if someone asked you for permission).
I don't think this is necessarily true. Some documentation has
little value except as a description of the program. Other
documentation (and I put Tom's work in this category) has
additional value for entertainment or education. Describing what
the functions in a language do may be utilitarian, but describing
how to think about a language is art, and should be treated as
such.
--
Jason Larke- jlarke@ans.net- Just a happy little pimp for mayhem
I don't speak for ANS or the international communist conspiracy.
"People change, and smile: but the agony abides."-T.S. Eliot, The Dry Salvages
Send mail for PGP public key.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:55:41 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <pudge-2105981450000001@dynamic95.ply.adelphia.net>
In article <p5som3br54.fsf@baynetworks.com>, psmith@baynetworks.com wrote:
# %% Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
#
# tc> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
# tc> In comp.lang.perl.misc,
#
# tc> pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
# :I officially redefine "free" as meaning "provided with ketchup". Any
# :other usage with me is misleading.
#
# Fine. Create a license that's used by thousands of packages and
# hundreds of thousands of people, have it considered, argued over,
# etc. for 10 years, start an organization based on your interpretation of
# free, win a number of grants and other awards, become a recognized
# spokesperson, create many writings describing exactly what you mean and
# why you think it's the right thing and make them publicly available,
# etc.
OK. And if I did all that, I wouldn't find my definition any more or less
legitimate. I am not saying the meaning FSF has is not legitimate; I am
saying all this does not change its legitimacy.
# OK, so Chris and Tom are upset that when RMS writes "free" in his posts,
# it doesn't mean what they think of as "free".
It doesn't fit what ANYONE thinks of as "free" outside the "free software
community". Even most "freeware" that people outside of the Unix world
use is not considered to be free as FSF thinks of free. Public domain
software and freeware are, to most people, very different things.
# But it appears to me that Tom's documents aren't free by _ANY_
# commonly-accepted definition of "free" in the software industry.
#
# They aren't free as in "public domain".
# They aren't free according to the BSD license.
# They aren't free according to the GPL.
# They aren't free according to the Artistic License.
# They aren't free according to the Debian Free Software Guidelines.
# They aren't free according to the Open Source Definition.
#
# It seems to me that _Tom_ is the one using the uncommon definition of
# "free", not RMS.
Yeah, right. MOST rational people think "free" means without cost or
payment. Tom's docs are free according to most everyone that I know.
I don't care what FSF does or thinks on this matter. If they want to have
their own meaning of free, fine. I think it is stupid, but fine. But
when they start saying "perl does not have good free docs" in public, they
have to realize most people will understand that outside of their little
context, and will believe that it means that the docs either are not good,
or they carry a cost, both of which is false and defamatory.
If I say on my site that I describe free as provided with ketchup, and
then say on another page that all burgers at McDonald's are free for the
asking, don't you think that some people will be upset at that? Sure, if
they know my position, there will be no problem. But if they do not and
they just happen to see that latter statement, then there will be
problems. And it is my fault for the misunderstanding.
The FSF or GN or whoever is irresponsible when they say, without direct
qualification, that there is no good free manual for Perl. It is false
without context, which is not provided in this case being discussed.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 17:52:35 GMT
From: trey@zipcon.net (Trey Valenta)
Subject: Help with Perl and Ingres
Message-Id: <895773304.1723@ran.zipcon.net>
Keywords: perl ingres sql sybase
I've been using sybperl for a while to manipulate data on an MS-SQL
server. I now find myself needing to compare some of the information
from Sybase(MS-SQL) with data stored on an Ingres system. I'm running on
Solaris 2.6 but we have Ingres on an HP-UX system so I don't have the
libraries to compile DBD::Ingres.
With that, can someone point me in the direction of some help? Do the
licenses for Ingres allow for any perl modules to be distributed once
compiled that I could get my hands on a compiled module? Is this
available anywhere?
Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
Trey
--
Trey Valenta trey@zipcon.net seattle, wash.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:54:14 GMT
From: belg4mit@aol.com (Belg4mit)
Subject: matching problem
Message-Id: <1998052118541400.OAA12338@ladder03.news.aol.com>
I've tried everything I can think of, and re-read perlre, so here goes.
Given two possible inputs:
mailto:bob@aol.com mailto:bob@aol.com?subject=test
I want to strip both down to just bob@aol.com.
It seeems like this should work:
$loc =~ s/mailto:(.+?)(\?.+)?/$1/i;
or this
$loc =~ s/mailto:(.+?)(\?.+)*/$1/i;
but they only match the first case.
So far I've had to kluge it by doing:
$loc =~ s/mailto:(.+?)/$1/i;
$loc =~ s/\?.+//;
But I'd rather not. Any ideas?
Mail replies to belg4mit@mit.edu preferred, thanks!
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 13:51:24 -0400
From: Stephane Boucher <sbo@nortel.ca_NO_SPAM>
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <9xopvh7cy1v.fsf@bcarsf26.dpn>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> Check out http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html, where you
> will see a remarkably similar copyright to mine:
>
> Copyright 1997, 1998 Richard Stallman
> Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted without royalty as
> long as this notice is preserved.
>
> I guess only Richard is allowed to use that kind of copyright.
> I wish I were that special.
Ok Tom. You win. Now, if I'm not going to use the GPL then I'll need
another licence. So, could you please tell me what licence I should
use. Note that I want to share only with people who will share with
me.
Thanks in advance,
--
,
Stephane Boucher, ing sbo@nortel.ca
- NORTEL - Tel: (613)763-9778
Bell-Northern Research / Recherches Bell-Northern
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 13:48:06 -0500
From: Ken MacLeod <ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <m3hg2j795l.fsf@biff.bitsko.slc.ut.us>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> Check out http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html, where you
> will see a remarkably similar copyright to mine:
>
> Copyright 1997, 1998 Richard Stallman
> Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted without royalty as
> long as this notice is preserved.
Since the discussion is based on the GNU task list item requesting
free[-in-the-GNU-sense] Perl documentation, maybe it would help make
things clearer if someone identified which documents included with
Perl are prose, and must be copied verbatim or not at all, and which
are not prose, and may be modified to reflect changes in a modified,
and renamed, body of code based on Perl*. Maybe it will need to be
clarified if _any_ of the documentation can be modified to reflect
changes in the modified code.
(* which, if I've understood this thread correctly, is permitted)
I'll mention that it is clear that it is _not_ permitted to
misrepresent the author, charge money for the original code (aside
from mere aggregation or distribution fees), or claim the author wrote
something they didn't.
--
Ken MacLeod
ken@bitsko.slc.ut.us
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:19:53 GMT
From: smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu (Stuart McDow)
Subject: Re: Perl for Windows is important, and comments on COM and CPAN
Message-Id: <6k1r89$837$1@ns1.arlut.utexas.edu>
dpj@ddt.occ.uc.edu (Dane Jackson) writes:
> I know that on NT you can just check
> if ($ENV{"OS"} eq "Windows_NT"){
> #print error message here
> }
Better to check $^O
--
Stuart McDow Applied Research Laboratories
smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu The University of Texas at Austin
"Look for beauty in roughness, unpolishedness"
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 14:41:55 -0400
From: "Thomas P. Missert" <thomasm@net1plus.com>
Subject: Re: Perl SW Guru NEEDED MA Intranet Start-up 80K+>+Equity
Message-Id: <6k1sfj$irj$1@supernews.com>
Summary: Critical need.Perl coding Software Engineer 80-95K plus EQUITY
Intranet Start-up company just north of Boston, MA.
I am hoping that you can help me. I have exhaust my resource of Perl
Software Engineers in the MA/NH area and need help. Do you know someone that
might be interested in checking out the following opportunity?
I just go a call from a VP of engineering out of an Intranet start-up
company. They are solidly funded and are about a year and a half old with
about 30 people.
Here is the Job Description:
Are you a Perl Guru?
Do you often find mistakes in O'Reilly?
Are you running the Beta of Perl 5.005?
We're looking for an engineer who's not intimidated by 20,000 lines of Perl,
who wants the challenge of delivering out-of-the-box Intranet technology to
small and medium-sized businesses, and who wants to work at a dynamic
startup.
Responsibilities:
Join a software engineering team, developing "out of the box" applications
for corporate Intranets. You will be responsible for all phases of the
product development cycle: requirements, design, coding and debugging.
Main responsibility:
- Be the main source of Perl wisdom for our software engineering staff
Other responsibilities include:
- Writing new applications and extending existing ones
- Developing a Web Application Engine
- Porting to new platforms
- Working with 3rd party ISVs to integrate their applications
Required Skills/Experience:
Qualified candidates will have following skills:
- 5+ years of Perl experience including
- Significant experience with CGI scripts and DBMS access
- Experience delivering multiple releases of a Perl based product
- Experience with object oriented Perl
- 2 years developing for the Web, including HTML and CGI development
- Experience with C++
We offer highly competitive salaries including generous stock options, an
outstanding benefits package and the advantages of an environment that
supports your personal development and recognizes your achievements.
If you live in the MA/NH area and are interested in the above position,
please respond immediately to: (prefer email of attached MS-Word 97 files)
Thomas P. Missert email: thomasm@net1plus.com
Senior Recruiter
Prostart Recruiting Resources Inc.
89 Stiles Road Suite 201 phone: 603-893-7772 xt35
Salem, NH 03079 fax: 603-893-7704
ProStart and client companies are Equal Opportunity Employers.
All qualified applicants will be considered. Unless otherwise
indicated all candidates must be citizens or permanent
residents of the United States.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 98 16:02:47 GMT
From: sitaram@diac.com (Sitaram Chamarty)
Subject: pod2html: inconsistent links for =item
Message-Id: <slrn6m8r3p.157.sitaram@ltusitaram.diac.com>
I'm trying to use pod2html to create some documentation. I find
that, for "=item" type constructs that are linked to by
L<page/item>, there is an inconsistency in the links generated.
The referred item is generated with <A NAME="item_blahblah">,
while the referring link is <A HREF="page#blahblah">.
IOW there is an missing "item_" on the referring link.
Am I goofing somewhere?
Any help is welcome. If this is a known problem, I apologise and
hope someone can point me to anything useful as a workaround.
(Right now I'm deleting the extra "item_" from the NAME tag as a
temporary workaround...)
--
Sitaram
What I have searched so far:
I have tried the FAQs that came with the distribution looking for
anyplace that has the word "pod", as well as tried the exact same
command that the "pod/Makefile" eventually runs to install HTML
dox.
perldoc pod2html merely says:
libpods
--libpods=name:...:name
List of page names (eg, "perlfunc") which contain
linkable =items.
...I do use the --libpods option also. Since any of my "pod"
pages is potentially linkable from any other I have all of them in
this option.
I have also searched dejanews, and though I found some posts
relating to pod2html, none seemed to talk about this particular
problem.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:59:40 -0700
From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Subject: possible error in 'advanced perl programming'
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980521105524.22690B-100000@shell6.ba.best.com>
hello all-
when using IO::Socket::INET for a client utility, p 193 of advanced perl
programming instructs you to:
$sock = new IO::Socket::INET (PeerHost => stuff,
PeerPort => stuff,
Proto => stuff)
this socket failed. when i changed the parameter 'PeerHost' to
'PeerAddr', it worked fine.
my question:
1) is there something major difference between PeerHost and PeerAddr that
i'm missing here, and if so, where can i read about it?
2) is this possibly just a typo in the book?
thanks-
matt =)
matt@lanier.org
matt@saturn5.com
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:31:36 GMT
From: mike@stok.co.uk (Mike Stok)
Subject: Re: possible error in 'advanced perl programming'
Message-Id: <6k1ru8$iou@news-central.tiac.net>
In article <Pine.BSF.3.96.980521105524.22690B-100000@shell6.ba.best.com>,
matthew d. p. k. lanier <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com> wrote:
>hello all-
>
>when using IO::Socket::INET for a client utility, p 193 of advanced perl
>programming instructs you to:
>
>$sock = new IO::Socket::INET (PeerHost => stuff,
> PeerPort => stuff,
> Proto => stuff)
>
>this socket failed. when i changed the parameter 'PeerHost' to
>'PeerAddr', it worked fine.
>
>my question:
>1) is there something major difference between PeerHost and PeerAddr that
>i'm missing here, and if so, where can i read about it?
>
>2) is this possibly just a typo in the book?
You're not missing anything, the book is not in synch with the module.
Hope this helps,
Mike
--
mike@stok.co.uk | The "`Stok' disclaimers" apply.
http://www.stok.co.uk/~mike/ | PGP fingerprint FE 56 4D 7D 42 1A 4A 9C
http://www.tiac.net/users/stok/ | 65 F3 3F 1D 27 22 B7 41
stok@colltech.com | Collective Technologies (work)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:54:14 GMT
From: mcafee@qix.rs.itd.umich.edu (Sean McAfee)
Subject: Re: possible error in 'advanced perl programming'
Message-Id: <qL_81.2710$0A3.13059972@news.itd.umich.edu>
In article <Pine.BSF.3.96.980521105524.22690B-100000@shell6.ba.best.com>,
matthew d. p. k. lanier <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com> wrote:
>when using IO::Socket::INET for a client utility, p 193 of advanced perl
>programming instructs you to:
>$sock = new IO::Socket::INET (PeerHost => stuff,
> PeerPort => stuff,
> Proto => stuff)
>this socket failed. when i changed the parameter 'PeerHost' to
>'PeerAddr', it worked fine.
[snip]
>2) is this possibly just a typo in the book?
It wouldn't be the only one. On page 330, Table 20-1, it lists a macro
"svREFCNT_dec(SV *)". The first "s" should be capitalized. It took me a
bit of time to figure that out.
Excellent book, even with a few typos.
--
Sean McAfee | GS d->-- s+++: a25 C++ US+++$ P+++ L++ E- W+ N++ |
| K w--- O? M V-- PS+ PE Y+ PGP?>++ t+() 5++ X+ R+ | mcafee@
| tv+ b++ DI++ D+ G e++>++++ h- r y+>++** | umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 17:40:45 GMT
From: bkline@cortex.nlm.nih.gov (Bob Kline)
Subject: Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob stored in a hash
Message-Id: <6k1out$a42$1@lhc.nlm.nih.gov>
Thanks, Tom. It would seem that either the implementation or the
documentation is in error (or both; see my followup responding to Jim
Michael's article in this thread).
Bob Kline
[ps - sorry for any bounced email you may have experienced; I just
notice (and fixed) the incorrect USER setting on this machine.]
Tom Christiansen (tchrist@mox.perl.com) wrote:
: [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
: Fixed in the next release.
: readline EXPR
: Reads from the file handle EXPR. In scalar
: context, a single line is read and returned. In
: list context, reads until end-of-file is reached
: and returns a list of lines (however you've
: defined lines with $/ or $INPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR).
: This is the internal function implementing the
: <EXPR> operator, but you can use it directly. The
: <EXPR> operator is discussed in more detail in the
: section on I/O Operators in the perlop manpage.
: Except that the current implementation requires that it
: be a typeglob, not a file handle EXPR. This may be a bug.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:07:18 GMT
From: gabor@vmunix.com (Gabor)
Subject: Proposal for new template for pack
Message-Id: <slrn6m8rna.ko9.gabor@vnode.vmunix.com>
I was wondering if there is any chance of adding a new templates to
pack/unpack. It would be for 64 bit integral types.
64 bit int in VAX order
64 bit int in Network order
64 bit unsigned int in native order
64 bit signed int in native order
Any chance?
I guess one could use q and Q and ?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 18:54:29 GMT
From: Jason Larke <jlarke@anthem.aa.ans.net>
Subject: Suggestion Re: GNU attacks on the open software community
Message-Id: <vathg2j4fq3.fsf_-_@anthem.aa.ans.net>
>>>>> On Thu, 21 May 1998 09:31:08 GMT, Barry Margolin
>>>>> <barmar@bbnplanet.com> said:
BM> I think there's alot of confusion in this thread about why
BM> Tom is upset.
BM> Tom doesn't consider the effort to write alternative Perl
BM> documentation to be violating his rights. His complaint is
BM> that the existence of this item on the task list implies that
BM> he hasn't provided reasonable documentation of Perl in the
BM> first place. Since he considers his documentation to be free
BM> (by his definition, not RMS's), in his opinion there already
BM> is "free Perl documentation", and the implication that he
BM> hasn't provided this is an attack on his work. Furthermore,
BM> I think he sees it as indirectly demanding that Tom change
BM> the copyright on his documentation to be the GPL, something
BM> he's morally opposed to and doesn't think the FSF has a right
BM> to request.
I think you're right about why Tom is upset.
But instead of trying to get him to rewrite his license, I think
it would be nice if the FSF changed their statement to read
something like:
"While excellent documentation for Perl is available without
charge, this documentation is covered by a non-GPL license. GPL'd
documentation would be desirable."
Which, IMHO, describes the situation better.
I understand that to the FSF, "free" has a precise meaning, but
to those who are new to the free software community, that meaning
may not be clear. I think that if I saw the passage that started
this whole thing during a casual read of the FSF bulletin, I
would take it to mean that the Perl docs cost money. Such are the
dangers of creating non-obvious redefinitions for commonly used
words.
--
Jason Larke- jlarke@ans.net- Just a happy little pimp
for mayhem I don't speak for ANS or the international communist
conspiracy. "People change, and smile: but the agony
abides."-T.S. Eliot, The Dry Salvages Send mail for PGP public key.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 18:57:14 GMT
From: smcnabb@interlog.com (Steve McNabb)
Subject: Re: Text File Manipulatoin
Message-Id: <6k1tea$h4n$1@demon.uunet.ca>
In article <6k1nve$h59@smash.gatech.edu>, johns@cc.gatech.edu says...
>
>I'm wondering if someone can help me with the syntax for the following
>task:
Well, no. I won't help you with the syntax, but in true perl-ish fashion, I
will point you in the right direction(s) to find what you wanna know :)
1) since you are using win32 perl, I would guess you'd find all the FREE (see
previous rant re Gnu virus ;-) documentation on your machine in a directory
something like this:
c:\perl\html\lib\pod\
look for perlfunc.html -- this is documentation for ALL the standard Perl
libary functions. (bookmark this puppy ;-)
All advice from here will be pointers to perl functions you'll need to
accomplish your goals, or pointers to other docs on your system. You'll learn
alot more from mudding through it yourself than by getting someone to do it for
you. BUT ** WARNING ** if I were you, I'd have your test script work with
c:\temp\foo.bat not c:\autoexec.bat until you get the behaviour you want -- it
would be nice to be able to boot your machine again no?
>
>Using PERL for Win32, I want to run a script that will open a file
>(AUTOEXEC.BAT).
see: open FILEHANDLE
make sure the check the result like this:
open (BLAH, "c:/temp/foo.bat") or die "Crap -- couldn't open file: $!";
>It will then find a particular text string, and if
>it's in there, replace the text with some other text.
see perlre.html -- you need a "regular expression" (Perl's built-in pattern
matching system -- cryptic and strange at first, but invaluable!!
>It then needs
>to just save/close the file.
See close FILEHANDLE
> If the text string is not found, it
>needs to add the other text string to the end of the PATH line. I
>guess it might be best to just do this no matter what and change
>the first step so that it just removes the text to be replaced, but
>since I know NO PERL at all, I'm just guessing. Can someone please
>help me out here?
Once again, regular expression -- slurp out the path line, append your junk on
the end, and then re-write the whole thing back to your file.
to sum:
OPEN
Regular expression to match your pattern
CLOSE or use regular expression to find and append path info
if still open,
CLOSE
HTH,
Steve
>
>--
>John Q. Sindell Jr.
>jqs@pikapp.net
>jqsindel@gapac.com
>http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~johns
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2665
**************************************
