[9046] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2664 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu May 21 14:07:45 1998
Date: Thu, 21 May 98 11:02:44 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 21 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2664
Today's topics:
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil (I R A Aggie)
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil <sbo@nortel.ca_NO_SPAM>
Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil <hp@pobox.com>
Idle thoughts...Can I make this leap year function more (Fritz Knack)
More double standards out of the FSF <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: More double standards out of the FSF <hp@pobox.com>
MS SQL server and Perl <sgoodyear@genxsys.com>
Re: MS SQL server and Perl (Brian Jepson)
Re: Perl for Windows is important, and comments on COM (Dane Jackson)
Re: Perl unable to read a file on IIS <cbeatson@mail.ci.lubbock.tx.us>
Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob st <jim.michael@gecm.com>
Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob st <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob st (Bob Kline)
Re: Spawning kermit sessions from perl5 (Matthew H. Gerlach)
Text File Manipulatoin (John)
Tom Christiansen attacks the free software community (w <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
Where is (or is there) perlpod for Win32? (Fritz Knack)
Why NOT crypt??? pittelli@envmed.rochester.edu
Re: writing image from http request to file <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 12:48:12 -0500
From: fl_aggie@thepentagon.com (I R A Aggie)
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <fl_aggie-2105981248120001@aggie.coaps.fsu.edu>
In article <6k1cl6$d6g$1@schenectady.netmonger.net>,
chris+usenet@netmonger.net wrote:
+ The
+ whole POINT of the GPL is to let people write free software and know
+ that it can never be taken and used in a non-free product.
Then its not really _free_ software, is it?
James
--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
The Bill of Rights is paid in Responsibilities - Jean McGuire
To cure your perl CGI problems, please look at:
<url:http://www.perl.com/CPAN-local/doc/FAQs/cgi/idiots-guide.html>
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 12:52:51 -0400
From: Stephane Boucher <sbo@nortel.ca_NO_SPAM>
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <9xosom3d0rg.fsf@bcarsf26.dpn>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
>
> In comp.lang.perl.misc, jkekoni@cc.hut.fi (Joonas Timo Taavetti Kekoni) writes:
> :So what is the problem?
> :1. direct copying of examples to your non GPL program is forbidden.
>
> I consider that a major problem.
>
> I have no right to force moral choices on others--or they cease to be
> moral choices. No one applauds the cow because it did not rise up and
> slay the eagle. Doing something you're forced into doing merits no
> moral high ground. It just means you've been forced to do things their
> way. This is contrary to the whole spirit of Perl--and public morals.
> You can't legislate morality, and I shall resist all attempts to do so.
If everyone uses the GPL, then everyone can use everybody else's
software without having to obtain permission. If you want to use
GPL'ed code, well you can use it in another GPL program, or obtain
permission from the owner of the copyright.
Where the GPL really falls flat on its face for some, is that people
can't use it in proprietary software. But guess what, THAT is the
purpose of the GPL, to not share the software with those who don't
share back. (There are of course at times some snags, such as the
incompatibility of the BSD licence and the GPL)
I continue to be puzzled by your interpretation of the implication of
the GPL. It's not the first time that I read something of that nature
from you. You talk about idealism. However, in the real world you have
to make choices. RMS' GPL is a compromise to fight against those who
chose not to share their software. I'm sure most users of the GPL
would not have a problem with using a public domain approach if that
was the general practice (and the FSF probably wouldn't exist then).
The essence of the GPL is: I'll share with you if you'll share with
me. You don't seem to like that. You seem to be happy with: I'll share
with you even if you don't share with me. You should then propose your
own software licence. In doing so, you should also write a manifesto
explaining why you think the "I'll share with you even if you don't
share with me" approach is better.
--
,
Stephane Boucher, ing sbo@nortel.ca
- NORTEL - Tel: (613)763-9778
Bell-Northern Research / Recherches Bell-Northern
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:28:25 GMT
From: robert havoc pennington <hp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: GPL documentation == unspeakable evil
Message-Id: <wsnyavv8reu.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
>
> It is imperative that no documentation be placed under the GPL due to its
> insidious viral nature. For example, the Perl documentation is meant to
> be used to take examples from to use in your programs. We want people
> to do this.
>
So don't use the GPL, or use the GPL with an exception saying "Code
examples may be used with no restrictions."
I don't see why you're flaming. Use the license you like. Let others
use the license they like. Everyone can try to convince others that
license X is better, but no one is making you use a particular
license, unless they have a right to do so because your work is a
derived one.
Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:47:02 GMT
From: fritz.knack@nospam.POPULUS.net (Fritz Knack)
Subject: Idle thoughts...Can I make this leap year function more elegant/efficient?
Message-Id: <356749eb.14708245@cnews.newsguy.com>
I compacted this one as much as *I* could, but I couldn't help but
wonder if there was a "better way" or something that may use an idiom
with which I'm not familiar.
I'm not terribly worried about detecting past leap years; in
particular, the year we started using the Gregorian calendar doesn't
matter in the context in which this function lives. Given that, a leap
year is any year divisible by 4 unless it's a 100 year, in which case
it must also be divisible by 400. (1800, 1900, 2100, 2200 aren't leap
years, but 2000 is.)
#---------------------------------------------
sub is_leap {
my $year = shift;
return (
!($year % 4) &&
(!($year % 100) ? !($year % 400) : 1)
);
}
#---------------------------------------------
Thoughts and comments are welcome.
Thanks,
Fritz
-------------------------
Sorry 'bout the nospam in the From field. You know how those 'bots are.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 16:21:13 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <6k1k9p$nn7$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Check out http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html, where you
will see a remarkably similar copyright to mine:
Copyright 1997, 1998 Richard Stallman
Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted without royalty as
long as this notice is preserved.
I guess only Richard is allowed to use that kind of copyright.
I wish I were that special.
--tom
--
"If you substitute other kinds of intellectual property into the GNU
manifesto, it quickly becomes absurd." --Cal Keegan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:42:44 GMT
From: robert havoc pennington <hp@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: More double standards out of the FSF
Message-Id: <wsnwwbf8qqz.fsf@harper.uchicago.edu>
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
>
> Check out http://www.gnu.org/gnu/linux-and-gnu.html, where you
> will see a remarkably similar copyright to mine:
>
> Copyright 1997, 1998 Richard Stallman
> Verbatim copying and redistribution is permitted without royalty as
> long as this notice is preserved.
>
> I guess only Richard is allowed to use that kind of copyright.
> I wish I were that special.
>
That's an opinion piece, not program documentation. Clearly he thinks
there's a difference. It's just insulting and gratuitously
antagonizing to say "double standard" without bringing up the argument
RMS may have for the two different copyrights.
And you are allowed to use any kind of copyright you want. He's asking
someone else to write a *different* set of perl docs, he is not taking
your docs. You can still have whatever copyright you are comfortable
with.
Really, you should relax. Everyone is going to buy the O'Reilly books
anyway just because they are the best for the forseeable future. I
spent $70 on two last night.
Havoc Pennington ==== http://pobox.com/~hp
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:31:04 +0000
From: S Goodyear <sgoodyear@genxsys.com>
Subject: MS SQL server and Perl
Message-Id: <356448B7.BB4B64B2@genxsys.com>
I would like to DB access to an MS SQL server via perl. I'm running
Perl5 on Redhat5
any ideas? I've seen many references to MS SQL and Sybase using the
same DBD,DBI is this true? Any suggestions or examples would be
GREATLY appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 17:25:15 GMT
From: bjepson@ids.net (Brian Jepson)
Subject: Re: MS SQL server and Perl
Message-Id: <slrn6m8osf.1ea.bjepson@gelvis.ids.net>
In article <356448B7.BB4B64B2@genxsys.com>, S Goodyear wrote:
>I would like to DB access to an MS SQL server via perl. I'm running
>Perl5 on Redhat5
>any ideas? I've seen many references to MS SQL and Sybase using the
>same DBD,DBI is this true? Any suggestions or examples would be
>GREATLY appreciated.
>
It is possible, but your mileage may vary in actual practice.
I've used the CT-lib for Linux that Sybase gives away, and at least
for some basic tests against MS SQL Server, it has worked. It works
just great with Sybase, but there are differences in Sybase and MS
SQL Server that will probably break some features of CT-lib.
I have not tested this with RedHat 5, but there is a note on Michael
Peppler's page that states this is possible. All the info you need
is on Michael's page, including a link to an article I wrote about
this. Check it out at:
http://www.mbay.net/~mpeppler/
Hope this helps,
--
Brian Jepson * (bjepson@ids.net) * http://users.ids.net/~bjepson
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 16:24:12 GMT
From: dpj@ddt.occ.uc.edu (Dane Jackson)
Subject: Re: Perl for Windows is important, and comments on COM and CPAN
Message-Id: <6k1kfc$7m8$1@malgudi.oar.net>
Tom Phoenix (rootbeer@teleport.com) wrote:
: On Tue, 19 May 1998, Steven Tolkin wrote:
:
: > It would be better if CPAN/FirstTime.pm checked the OS and
: > quickly gave a message saying e.g. "Windows is not supported".
:
: Good idea! Got a patch? :-)
I know that on NT you can just check
if ($ENV{"OS"} eq "Windows_NT"){
#print error message here
}
however I don't have any idea how to do it for
win95/3.11.
--
Dane Jackson - zuvembi@mindless.com
"The Jews are a frightened people. Twenty centuries of
Christian love have broken down their nerves."
-Israel Zangwill
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:52:21 -0500
From: "Chris Beatson" <cbeatson@mail.ci.lubbock.tx.us>
Subject: Re: Perl unable to read a file on IIS
Message-Id: <6k1lv9$ar6$1@spider.ci.lubbock.tx.us>
you might try something like this:
open (KIHON_DATA, "<khion_data.dat");
$count = 0;
while(<KHION_DATA>)
{
$cont++;
}
close (KIHON_DATA);
print "Content-type: text/html\n\n";
print "<html>\n";
print "<body>\n";
print "The file '$kihon_data_file' has $count lines.\n<BR>";
<close the tags and end program>
Chris
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 11:49:54 -0400
From: Jim Michael <jim.michael@gecm.com>
Subject: Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob stored in a hash
Message-Id: <35644D22.6549@gecm.com>
Bob Kline wrote:
>
> I'm trying to follow up on all the pieces of this so I understand
> everything you're saying in the FMTEYEWTK on this topic, in particular
> the passage
>
> The angle bracket notation is mostly just an interface to the
> built-in function named `readline'.
>
> However, it doesn't appear as if readline made it into the
> documentation. It's listed as one of the "functions new to version 5"
> but I can't find it anywhere in 'man perlfunc' (5.004). Am I looking
> in the right place?
>
E:\>perldoc -f readline
readline EXPR
Reads from the file handle EXPR. In scalar context, a
single line is read and returned. In list context, reads
until end-of-file is reached and returns a list of lines
(however you've defined lines with $/ or
$INPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR). This is the internal function
implementing the `<EXPR>' operator, but you can use it
directly. The `<EXPR>' operator is discussed in more
detail in the section on "I/O Operators" in the perlop
manpage.
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 16:08:24 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob stored in a hash
Message-Id: <6k1jho$lcm$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
RKLINE@cortex.nlm.nih.gov (Bob Kline) writes:
:However, it doesn't appear as if readline made it into the
:documentation. It's listed as one of the "functions new to version 5"
:but I can't find it anywhere in 'man perlfunc' (5.004). Am I looking
:in the right place?
Fixed in the next release.
readline EXPR
Reads from the file handle EXPR. In scalar
context, a single line is read and returned. In
list context, reads until end-of-file is reached
and returns a list of lines (however you've
defined lines with $/ or $INPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR).
This is the internal function implementing the
<EXPR> operator, but you can use it directly. The
<EXPR> operator is discussed in more detail in the
section on I/O Operators in the perlop manpage.
Except that the current implementation requires that it
be a typeglob, not a file handle EXPR. This may be a bug.
--tom
--
"If you substitute other kinds of intellectual property into the GNU
manifesto, it quickly becomes absurd." --Cal Keegan
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 16:59:50 GMT
From: RKLINE@cortex.nlm.nih.gov (Bob Kline)
Subject: Re: Problem de-referencing a reference to a typeglob stored in a hash
Message-Id: <6k1mi6$6fq$1@lhc.nlm.nih.gov>
Thanks, Jim. I'm must have a broken copy of the documentation,
because readline isn't in my set.
I'm a little puzzled, though, by what your copy says. If I take
literally the passage which says "This is the internal function
implementing the `<EXPR>' operator ..." then it should be possible
to use the function to do file globbing by passing it an expression
other than a filehandle or a scalar variable, but (a) that doesn't
work, and (b) that would be at least mildly bizarre, given the
name of the function.
On the other hand, the more natural assumption one would make
about the function (that it would perform the line-reading
portion of the <> functionality without the restrictions on
the complexity of the argument type) appears to be wrong also,
as the readline doesn't work with the original poster's $x{FH}
argument (and Tom's FMTEYEWTK alludes to even heavier restrictions
on what can be passed to readline), so the passage quoted by
perldoc below must not be the whole story.
Perhaps there's some additional insight in the Camel book. My
copy of the 2nd edition is at home so I'll have to wait until
this evening to find out.
Bob
Jim Michael (jim.michael@gecm.com) wrote:
: Bob Kline wrote:
: >
: > I'm trying to follow up on all the pieces of this so I understand
: > everything you're saying in the FMTEYEWTK on this topic, in particular
: > the passage
: >
: > The angle bracket notation is mostly just an interface to the
: > built-in function named `readline'.
: >
: > However, it doesn't appear as if readline made it into the
: > documentation. It's listed as one of the "functions new to version 5"
: > but I can't find it anywhere in 'man perlfunc' (5.004). Am I looking
: > in the right place?
: >
: E:\>perldoc -f readline
: readline EXPR
: Reads from the file handle EXPR. In scalar context, a
: single line is read and returned. In list context, reads
: until end-of-file is reached and returns a list of lines
: (however you've defined lines with $/ or
: $INPUT_RECORD_SEPARATOR). This is the internal function
: implementing the `<EXPR>' operator, but you can use it
: directly. The `<EXPR>' operator is discussed in more
: detail in the section on "I/O Operators" in the perlop
: manpage.
--
Bob Kline
E:bob_kline@corpsoft.com
V:703.522.0820 x-311
F:703.522.5407
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 16:12:31 GMT
From: gerlach@netcom.com (Matthew H. Gerlach)
Subject: Re: Spawning kermit sessions from perl5
Message-Id: <gerlachEtBECv.Eu6@netcom.com>
Using kermit to perform serial downloads is a very, very good idea.
It is an extremely reliable protocol tested over a wide range of
connection and computers.
I have used perl with kermit for quite some time, take a look at
ftp://www.smallplanetbrewery.com/users/coralie/perl_serial_example
What I've done in the past is to use Comm.pl to "talk" to the kermit
program and control it. Nowadays I suggest using Expect.pm to control
the kermit program, but the concept is the same.
Hope this helps,
Matthew H. Gerlach
gerlach@netcom.com
In article <356442BE.392944D8@pavilion.co.uk> Andy Holyer <andyh@pavilion.co.uk> writes:
>I have a problem: there's probably a simple solution to this, but I
>haven't been able to find it mentioned in the docs.
>
>I'm trying to implement a simple BBS in perl5. The program sits on
>/dev/cuaa{n} answering incoming calls to the modem on that line. I've
>opened STDIN and STDOUT to this device, to simplify matters.
>
>The program needs to upload or download files at various points. The
>server-side name of these files is local to the program. What I've got
>so far is this:
>
>system( "kermit -r -a $filename") || die "Failed in uploading $filename:
>$!\n";
>
>Since children spawend by system() inherit STDIN and STDOUT, this should
>recieve a file, put it in $filename and then go about its business. But,
>it doesn't work.
>
>What am I doing wrong? Is there OTOH a perl module to do
>uploads/downloads? should I do something else?
>
>Thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions.
>
>Andy Holyer, Lewes, E Sussex, UK
>
>
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 17:23:58 GMT
From: johns@cc.gatech.edu (John)
Subject: Text File Manipulatoin
Message-Id: <6k1nve$h59@smash.gatech.edu>
I'm wondering if someone can help me with the syntax for the following
task:
Using PERL for Win32, I want to run a script that will open a file
(AUTOEXEC.BAT). It will then find a particular text string, and if
it's in there, replace the text with some other text. It then needs
to just save/close the file. If the text string is not found, it
needs to add the other text string to the end of the PATH line. I
guess it might be best to just do this no matter what and change
the first step so that it just removes the text to be replaced, but
since I know NO PERL at all, I'm just guessing. Can someone please
help me out here?
--
John Q. Sindell Jr.
jqs@pikapp.net
jqsindel@gapac.com
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~johns
------------------------------
Date: 21 May 1998 19:39:29 +0200
From: Per Abrahamsen <abraham@dina.kvl.dk>
Subject: Tom Christiansen attacks the free software community (was: Re: GNU attacks on the open software community)
Message-Id: <rjvhqz5xri.fsf@zuse.+dina.kvl.dk>
[ FUT: gnu.misc.discuss ]
Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:
> The lie that Perl's documentation is not free. It is.
It is not free by the definition of "free" given in
<URL:http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/philosophy.html>
You may disagree with their definition of free. Many people do, the
FSF definition of free is certainly controversial. But since they
clearly define their terms, they are no lying.
So please stop claiming the FSF is lying. That is itself a lie, and
by spreading lies like that you are hurting the free software community.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 15:33:30 GMT
From: fritz.knack@nospam.POPULUS.net (Fritz Knack)
Subject: Where is (or is there) perlpod for Win32?
Message-Id: <356646ed.13942925@cnews.newsguy.com>
Sorry if it's an idiot question, but I can't seem to find perlpod
anywhere on my Win32 system (ActiveState distrubution) in either an
executable or Perl format. I've read the FAQ, poked around CPAN, and
searched DejaNews without finding anything useful.
Would someone be so kind as to either point out where under my nose
the thing is or assure me it's just not there?
Thanks,
Fritz
(If you email, please adjust my address. Regardless, I'll have no
problem seeing a USENET followup.)
-------------------------
Sorry 'bout the nospam in the From field. You know how those 'bots are.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:42:26 GMT
From: pittelli@envmed.rochester.edu
Subject: Why NOT crypt???
Message-Id: <6k1p22$lkm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Ok, I've seen the threads discussing how to get crypt to work on the most
recent CPAN NT Perl (5.00402), and I am also aware of Activeware's
crypt-enabled 5.00307.
BUT, could someone PLEASE tell me WHY the hell crypt was not implemented in
the 5.00402 NT build, WHO was paranoid about WHAT (from people using
encryption???), and have the developers acknowledged that this implementation
omission was stupid (at the very least form the standpoint of all the users
asking for crypt!), or will I need to build a workaround in all my scripts for
clients b.c. of an expected lack of FUTURE crypt support???
Randy Pittelli
pittelli@envmed.rochester.edu
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 17:49:21 GMT
From: Randal Schwartz <merlyn@stonehenge.com>
To: Matthew Purdon <playinmantis@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: writing image from http request to file
Message-Id: <8cd8d7pl9a.fsf@gadget.cscaper.com>
>>>>> "Matthew" == Matthew Purdon <playinmantis@earthlink.net> writes:
Matthew> # Create a user agent object
Matthew> use LWP::UserAgent;
Matthew> $ua = new LWP::UserAgent;
Matthew> $ua->agent("AgentName/0.1 " . $ua->agent);
Matthew> # Create a request
Matthew> my $req = new HTTP::Request GET =>
Matthew> 'http://www.perl.com/graphics/ora_logo.gif';
Matthew> # Pass request to the user agent and get a response back
Matthew> my $res = $ua->request($req);
Matthew> # Check the outcome of the response
Matthew> if ($res->is_success) {
Matthew> open(IMAGE,">ora_logo.gif") || die "Can't open image file";
Matthew> print IMAGE $res->content;
Matthew> close(IMAGE);
Matthew> } else {
Matthew> print "Bad luck this time\n";
Matthew> }
In case anyone else at home is watching, this is essentially
an open-coded version of:
use LWP::Simple;
getstore('http://www.perl.com/graphics/ora_logo.gif','ora_logo.gif');
I'm never sure why people don't start with the simple code first, so
let me illustrate it here. Matthew, I'm not sure it'll solve your
problem, but see what that does first.
print "Just another Perl hacker," # but not what the media calls "hacker!" :-)
## legal fund: $20,990.69 collected, $186,159.85 spent; just 102 more days
## before I go to *prison* for 90 days; email fund@stonehenge.com for details
--
Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@teleport.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>
Quote: "I'm telling you, if I could have five lines in my .sig, I would!" -- me
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
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For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
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End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2664
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