[8915] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2532 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu May 7 16:18:58 1998
Date: Thu, 7 May 98 13:00:30 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 7 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2532
Today's topics:
"use strict" doesn't like socket/handle, help. <captain@pirate.de.nospam-delete-this>
Re: Can you modify an output line and reread it? <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Can You Stop It ? Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Eve <birgitt@order.booktraders.com>
Re: Can You Stop It ? Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: (Chris Nandor)
Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?) (Clinton Pierce)
Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?) <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?) (Chris Nandor)
Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?) <mmhamze@msn.com>
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? <zenin@archive.rhps.org>
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Chris Nandor)
Re: Fetch Remote HTML Pages (Andy Lester)
Re: function prototyping <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Grieving Bull johnnie@NOPERSONALMAIL.edu
Re: Grieving Bull (Chris Nandor)
Re: Grieving Bull (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Re: Grieving our dying community <sloh@palisade.com>
Re: Grieving our dying community (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Help Please: How Do I Test A String <fb@whitaker.org>
Re: Help... validate FTP links? <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Re: How to delete an element in an array? <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Re: Maintaining File position. (courtesy)
Modifying $0 <ragoff@sandia.gov>
Re: Modifying $0 (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Re: Perl on Win95? (Andy Lester)
Re: Perl on Win95? <andy@wonderworks.co.uk>
Re: perl scripts dealing with /etc/passwd <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: pipe turns off the alarm() ? (Charles DeRykus)
pop/push,shift/unshift ????? <fantha@berlin1.netsurf.de>
Re: tr/[\000-\177]/[\200-\377]/ doesn't work for '[' <"xuming "@ email.unc.edu>
Unable to use CPAN.pm through firewall <mconty@year.grain.cargill.com>
Re: Win95 Perl scripts DONT WORK on UNIX <andy@wonderworks.co.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 21:23:55 +0200
From: Mark Seuffert <captain@pirate.de.nospam-delete-this>
Subject: "use strict" doesn't like socket/handle, help.
Message-Id: <35520A4B.448C@pirate.de.nospam-delete-this>
Hi,
I don't know how to call an subroutine with a socket as argument,
while I "use strict". I tried different ways, but always get
error messages like:
Bareword "STDIN" not allowed while "strict subs" in use
Can't use string ("STDIN") as a symbol ref while "strict refs" in use
Question: How to call the subroutine "readline"? many many thx! :)
#!/usr/bin/perl
#use strict;
$::line = &readline(STDIN,5);
print $::line;
# Grab a line without using buffered input
sub readline {
my ($rin, $win, $ein, $line, $nfound, @fhlist);
$rin = $win = $ein = '' ;
@fhlist = split(' ', $_[0]) ;
for (@fhlist) { vec($rin,fileno($_),1) = 1 }
$nfound = select ($rin, $win, $ein, $_[1]); #Set timeout and read
response
if($nfound>0) { sysread($_[0], $line, 1024) } #Read line if possible
return ($line);
}
--
/Mark (EMailadresse ab ".nospam" lvschen)
http://home.pages.de/~irc ~html ~unix
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:06:00 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Can you modify an output line and reread it?
Message-Id: <6it0mo$rgb$3@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, Tom Turton <tturton@cowboys.anet-dfw.com> writes:
:I'm not to the level of being able to use modules, but was wondering if
:you can do
:this through basic Perl commands -
:
:I'd like to output a line with a default value at the end, then allow
:the user to either
:keep that value (hit RETURN), or write over it, hit RETURN and have the
:default value updated.
I'm afraid you've been MSFMH-wrapped there. Better look into that.
:Trial and error showed me I can't "backspace" over the variable; is
:there a Perl command which lets you do this?
Why yes, actually, there is. It works just as /usr/ucb/Mail's ~h
command does.
>From the Perl Cookbook:
The *sys/ioctl.ph* file, if you can get it to build on your system,
is the gateway to your system's idiosyncratic I/O functions via
the `ioctl' function. One such function is the TIOCSTI ioctl. That
acronym stands for "terminal I/O control, simulate terminal input". On
systems that implement this function, it will push one character into
your device stream so that the next time any process reads from that
device, it gets whatever character you put there.
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
require 'sys/ioctl.ph';
die "no TIOCSTI" unless defined &TIOCSTI;
sub jam {
local $SIG{TTOU} = "IGNORE"; # "Stopped for tty output"
local *TTY; # make local filehandle
open(TTY, "+</dev/tty") || die "no tty: $!";
for (split(//, $_[0])) {
ioctl(TTY, &TIOCSTI, $_) || die "bad TIOCSTI: $!";
}
close(TTY);
}
jam("@ARGV\n");
Since sys/ioctl.ph translation is so dodgey, you'll probably have to
run this C program to get your TIOCSTI value.
#include <sys/ioctl.h>
main() { printf("%#08x\n", TIOCSTI); }
--tom
--
TCP/IP: handling tomorrow's loads today
OSI: handling yesterday's loads someday
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:49:14 -0400
From: Birgitt Funk <birgitt@order.booktraders.com>
Subject: Can You Stop It ? Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <3552022A.647609E5@order.booktraders.com>
Chris Nandor wrote:
>
> In article <slrn6l3buk.88a.mgm@unpkhswm04.bscc.bls.com>,
> mmorris@mindspring.com wrote:
>
> # On Thu, 07 May 1998 12:11:24 GMT, Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
> # [snip]
> # >If you want to spend your time doing that, be my guest. But I am
> # >convinced that anyone who is intelligent enough to program usefully will
> # >be able to figure CPAN out as-is with a minimal amount of thought and
> # >effort. All they have to do is read the documents, browse around, and
> # >maybe ask a question or two, politely. If they cannot do that, they
> # >cannot program.
> #
> # I was going to abstain from posting to this thread. Really, I was.
> #
Me too, but again I am having my difficulties to do so.
> # However, we as a programming community find this user-unfriendly behavior
> # completely unacceptable in every other aspect of our professional lives. Why
> # would we want to hold it up as the model of interaction when it comes to perl?
>
Can't you get along ? Fact is, that the frustration of Chris Nandor
and Tom Christiansen (if he is frustrated, what I don't know) is
justified (they prove it with facts). But the way of how Chris Nandor
is voicing it, is at times a bit hard to bear and not very helpful to
many outsiders.
For clueless newbies reading this group it is really depressing
and not encouraging at all.
The only thing which keeps me going is that fortunately in many of
the frustrated answers there is so much valuable information given by
Nandor, Christiansen and others, that again, being sad as the whole
thread really is, it ends up also being helpful.
What a pity that one has to read through all this emotional stuff
to get some great hints where to look, how to search, etc.
> I have no idea what you are talking about. I am not being
> user-unfriendly, I am simply stating the facts as I see them.
>
I am not a native, but if you happen to know some German, there is a
saying "Der Ton macht die Musik".
> # In almost every other situation where we need to find our way about a mass
> # of information, we provide search tools. In those cases where there aren't
> # any, we write them. We, as an Internet using community, have specified through
> # our continued behavior that we expect to be able to do keyword searching on
> # just about everything.
>
> Since when does CPAN not have keyword searching??
>
> http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/SFgate/WAIT4CPAN.html
> http://theory.uwinnipeg.ca/search/cpan-search.html
>
> For crying out loud. And people wonder why I am frustrated.
>
No, but someone should help you to calm down. Think of it this
way, your knowledge is VERY valuable to many, don't throw your
energies away into being upset all the time.
You hurt yourself and we might loose a great resource, which
I think we don't want at all.
Birgitt Funk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:28:17 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Can You Stop It ? Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <pudge-0705981526250001@192.168.0.3>
In article <3552022A.647609E5@order.booktraders.com>, Birgitt Funk
<birgitt@order.booktraders.com> wrote:
# The only thing which keeps me going is that fortunately in many of
# the frustrated answers there is so much valuable information given by
# Nandor, Christiansen and others, that again, being sad as the whole
# thread really is, it ends up also being helpful.
Good, I hope that teaches people a lesson. Start by ASKING instead of
complaining. You get the same information with only one-third the
emotion.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:16:16 GMT
From: cpierce1@cp500.fsic.ford.com (Clinton Pierce)
Subject: Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <6istpg$aqq2@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>
In article <pudge-0705981042200001@192.168.0.3>,
pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor) writes:
>In article <6isekp$pfd$1@kanja.arnes.si>, Matija.Grabnar@arnes.si wrote:
>
># In article <pudge-0705980809320001@192.168.0.3>,
># Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
># >If you want to spend your time doing that, be my guest. But I am
># >convinced that anyone who is intelligent enough to program usefully will
># >be able to figure CPAN out as-is with a minimal amount of thought and
># >effort. All they have to do is read the documents, browse around, and
># >maybe ask a question or two, politely. If they cannot do that, they
># >cannot program.
>#
># I am not a clueless newbie (in fact, I have a module on CPAN myself), but
># let's not pretend that everything on CPAN works smoothly.
>
>Not only do I not pretend that, but I stated that in fact. Of course CPAN
>needs improvement, of course it is not perfect, of course some thing are
>broken. But that is very different than saying that CPAN is unnavigable,
>or that it is broken just because clueless newbies are lost.
Stop saying that. A LOT of very clueful people get lost in CPAN the
first few times, when installing non-trivial modules manually.
And people wonder why discussions degrade into flame wars. Lighten up.
New people RTFM or are told to use CPAN by c.l.p.m. New people try to
use CPAN, and if CPAN.pm doesn't work right (100%) there's NO reasonable
fallback mechanism. People who need modules will then ask CLPM for
help and get flames like yours. Or they'll re-invent the wheel, and
get no help (or discouragement!) and are told (again) to use CPAN. So they
invent Poor Wheels. This doesn't help anybody, and defeats the whole
purpose of CPAN. These aren't "clueless newbies". These are desperate
people trying to get things done.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Clinton A. Pierce | "If you rush a Miracle Man, | http://www. |
| cpierce1@ford.com | you get rotten miracles" | dcicorp.com/ |
| fubar@ameritech.net |--Miracle Max, The Princess Bride| ~clintp |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
GCSd-s+:+a-C++UALIS++++P+++L++E---t++X+b+++DI++++G++e+>++h----r+++y+++>y*
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:57:47 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <6it07b$rgb$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Perhaps we should just install a command called 'cpan'
that were actually perl -MSCPAN -eshell.
--tom
--
An Inteligent terminal is not a smart-ass terminal; it is one you can educate.
--Rob Pike
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:20:01 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <pudge-0705981518030001@192.168.0.3>
In article <slrn6l3umm.f6s.mgm@unpkhswm04.bscc.bls.com>,
mmorris@mindspring.com wrote:
# On Thu, 07 May 1998 15:34:36 GMT, Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
# [snip]
# >You can probably do this right now on your machine. And I don't mind that
# >you didn't bother to read your docs before asking about search facilities,
# >what I mind is that you assumed there were none and attacked that fact
# >before reading all your CPAN docs.
# This reminds me intensely of "Inside Macintosh" ... to understand any given
# chapter you must first understand all of the others. In order not to offend
# by asking questions concerning CPAN usage, you must first understand CPAN
# usage to the point where you don't need to ask any questions.
Bull. You could have simply asked "is there a way to keyword search
CPAN?" Instead, you bemoaned the lack of keyword searching in CPAN,
showing your ignorance. You could have asked. You did not. You stated.
I am much more open to questions that incorrect statements.
# Alternately,
# you can read every document supplied with both the perl core and all modules
# on CPAN, and then you'll know which questions you'll be allowed to ask about
# modules on CPAN that you haven't yet installed.
Well, at the very least you can look over the CPAN docs if you are going
to use CPAN. Criminy, why is this so hard to grasp??
# As it turns out, I am familiar with WAIT. What I am saying, and feel that you
# are not addressing, is the following: how does the user who is generally
# clueful but new to perl know to use it?
By reading the docs?? I expect a user to actually look at installed
modules and see what is there. Why shouldn't they?
# Now, the user who first tries "perldoc" and "CPAN" finds squat. If he is
# feeling lucky, he may next post to c.l.p.m and ask if there is a module to do
# this. If he tries this, I suspect he'll get a whole bunch of "use a module,
# stupid" responses, perhaps many including disparaging remarks about his
# lack of clue and/or laziness.
Bull. If you had asked, "is there a way to search CPAN?", you would have
gotten URLs and CPAN::WAIT information. If you had just typed "CPAN
search" into Yahoo!, the first thing that pops up is a WAIT web gateway.
Yes, it could be more clear how to do this, but NO, it is not difficult to
find out.
Bottom line: how hard is it to cd /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/CPAN and look
at what is there? Better yet, browse over to
http://cpan.perl.com/modules/by-module/CPAN/ and look at a README or
three. Geez, investigate.
I dunno, maybe it is because I have a journalism degree, but this stuff
does not seem like brain surgery. Look around, search for yourself.
And it is no crime to not find it. It is a crime to whine about how
difficult it is, because it IS NOT difficult for anyone familiar with CPAN
and @INC to find this out, even if he has never heard of WAIT. It just is
not hard.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 14:44:27 -0500
From: "Maan M. Hamze" <mmhamze@msn.com>
Subject: Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <6it2vd$qg5$1@excalibur.flash.net>
Stuart McDow wrote in message <6isfei$srq$1@ns1.arlut.utexas.edu>...
>Stuart McDow Applied Research
Laboratories
>smcdow@arlut.utexas.edu The University of Texas at
Austin
> "It is obvious that about 750,000 people ago, Austin was a wonderful
City."
Hahahahaha...I totally agree! As an Austinite who remembers days when IH35
in Austin never had a rush traffic hour and Mopac was still a blueprint!
On another note: what is CPAN anyway? Come to think about it: I really
do not want to know!
Maan
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:00:20 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@archive.rhps.org>
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <894568076.525548@thrush.omix.com>
Craig Berry <cberry@cinenet.net> wrote:
: My point is that it's *not* the fault of CPAN.pm, but it arguably *is*
: the fault of CPAN, which is alleged to be a human-useable archive of
: available modules.
True. While there are many, many search tools of all kinds to
dig into CPAN from every direction, none of them jump up and
say "use me" the way they should. I think at the vary top
of the perl main page should be a vary simple, one field search
box that would call WAIT et al to return a search set. As it
is now, the search engines available are both hard to find (if
you're in a rush, as most people are), and slow as mud.
CPAN.pm is good, CPAN is good, and even the search engines for
CPAN are good. It's the layout and navigation that I think has
the biggest problems.
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:37:40 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <pudge-0705981535430001@192.168.0.3>
In article <894567748.542817@thrush.omix.com>, Zenin
<zenin@archive.rhps.org> wrote:
# Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
#
# Cool, we're back to real topics. Thanks.
#
# : It IS his job. Whoever admins perl, that is the job of that person. If
# : not the sysadmin, then whoever admins perl. At my work, I administrate
# : perl, but I am not the sysadmin. I keep the modules up-to-date and
# : happy. Making sure the right configs are in there is my job.
#
# Just because the company mail admin decides to reroute mail all over
# creation doesn't meen he's going to make sure the admin of a
# random language installation is told promptly if at all. All he
# rightfully should be in charge of is the mail servers and local
# MTAs, and that's it. This is even to say there is a "perl admin",
# because it makes just as much sense to notify the "admin" of a
# GCC installation when the mail server moves.
Make up your mind. Are you talking about a mail admin or a sysadmin?
Whoever admins perl, usually the sysadmin, is responsible for knowing if
the mail admin changes something. At the very least the mail admin should
notify people of such a change, and the person who USES Net::SMTP should
either change Net::Config or notify someone who can.
# All this is a mute point however, because SMTP is inherently a much
^^^^
moot (also not a typo)
# less reliable method of dispatching mail then the local MTA, period.
Uh, most MTAs use SMTP eventually. You might have meant "using SMTP
directly from your perl program is much less reliable than dispatching to
your local MTA," but that is not what you said. What you said is entirely
wrong, unless your mail doesn't ever travel from the MTA via SMTP, in
which case Net::SMTP is not a viable solution at all, anyways.
Please, learn to type what you mean. One cannot be expected to discuss or
debate something when the other person does not express his thoughts in a
precise manner.
# : Whatever requires a special config file needs to be administrated to some
# : degree. Look, if you don't like depending on Net::Config because someone
# : is not living up to his responsibilities or it has been determined that
# : this particular responsibility will not be fulfilled, then you can always
# : hardcode the values in your script.
#
# Exactly! And now we're back to non-portable code because of it.
No, not all. A program is not portable because it has to be
user-configured? So sendmail itself is not portable! Neither is perl or
Apache.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:17:04 GMT
From: petdance@maxx.mc.net (Andy Lester)
Subject: Re: Fetch Remote HTML Pages
Message-Id: <6it1bg$t4k$2@usenet11.supernews.com>
: Is there any easy way to a 'copy' of a remote html page and any and all
: embedded images and copy them to the machine running the script?
Yes.
There's also an easy way to find out answers to these questions. It's
called "research". Go to www.perl.com and have at it.
--
--
Andy Lester: <andy@petdance.com> http://tezcat.com/~andy/
Chicago Shows List: <shows@ChicagoMusic.com> http://ChicagoMusic.com/
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:28:20 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: function prototyping
Message-Id: <6it20k$10o$1@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc,
"matthew d. p. k. lanier" <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com> writes:
:i'm considering the usefulness of prototyping my function calls.
Until you can immediately tell what length(@a) returns
when @a = (1 .. 1), don't use prototypes.
--tom
--
X-Windows: A mistake carried out to perfection.
--Jamie Zawinski
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 12:50:59 -0600
From: johnnie@NOPERSONALMAIL.edu
Subject: Grieving Bull
Message-Id: <6isvqj$2lac@holly.ColoState.EDU>
Gimme a break. I think most computer aficianodos would love to live
int he old world where people hacked their way around. But, let's
remember, computers are hear to be PRODUCTIVE. Everyone in the world, in
every field, can't learn C++, system calls, GUI libraries, etc...That's
why we have newsgroups such a s this which deal with the language itself.
Anyone interested in developing Perl (Or whatever other thing) still
has their chance. No one's stopping you.
This is a world with an exponential amount of tools to use! Long ago
there was assembly, maybe Fortran, and just console programs. This is a
much more advanced world now. Ya can't learn everything. In some cases
you can't afford to devote your time to even one thing. I would love to
be able to understand the perl source code but I don't have the time to do
that. That's why Larry originally created it instead of modifying some
other language.
My recomendation is you skip over the "bitch" Emails and understand
they are directed from users who don't have the time or the knowhow to fix
the problem themselves and they're not just "bitching" people all the
time.
- Johnnie B
--
- Johnnie Blanco Jr.
- "Just can't sit. Gotta get jiggy wit it, mmm, that's it!"
- Will Smith [Gettin Jiggy Wit It]
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:43:09 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Grieving Bull
Message-Id: <pudge-0705981541160001@192.168.0.3>
In article <6isvqj$2lac@holly.ColoState.EDU>, johnnie@NOPERSONALMAIL.edu wrote:
# Gimme a break. I think most computer aficianodos would love to live
# int he old world where people hacked their way around. But, let's
# remember, computers are hear to be PRODUCTIVE. Everyone in the world, in
No, PEOPLE are heRE to be productive. Computers are not. Computers are
here to help us be productive, at best, but on their own, they are capable
of nothing.
# This is a world with an exponential amount of tools to use! Long ago
# there was assembly, maybe Fortran, and just console programs. This is a
# much more advanced world now. Ya can't learn everything. In some cases
# you can't afford to devote your time to even one thing. I would love to
So? Does that mean you can absolve yourself of effort to learn the things
that you do devote your time to? If you cannot be bothered to try and
learn what you actually use, then you are damning yourself, and no one is
going to help you except others who are in the same boat. May God have
mercy on your lazy souls.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:27:58 GMT
From: nvp@shore.net (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Subject: Re: Grieving Bull
Message-Id: <6it1vu$nbm@fridge.shore.net>
johnnie@colostate.edu wrote:
: Gimme a break. I think most computer aficianodos would love to live
: int he old world where people hacked their way around. But, let's
: remember, computers are hear to be PRODUCTIVE. Everyone in the world, in
Fine. Just don't ask for me to write code for you free of change AND
don't bitch when something's broken.
: every field, can't learn C++, system calls, GUI libraries, etc...That's
: why we have newsgroups such a s this which deal with the language itself.
Wrong. We have newsgroups for discussion. Language discussions
(which would include code snippets and other goodies) turned into
people wanting free code -- free-for-alls.
: Anyone interested in developing Perl (Or whatever other thing) still
: has their chance. No one's stopping you.
If this is what you think I was saying, then you've completely missed
the point.
: This is a world with an exponential amount of tools to use! Long ago
: there was assembly, maybe Fortran, and just console programs. This is a
: much more advanced world now. Ya can't learn everything. In some cases
No one said that people need(ed) to know everything. People just want
others to *learn* and NO (for the millionth, freaking time), it's not
to come at other's expense. Buy a book, read the doc, LEARN
something. Millions of free code snippets on comp.lang.perl.misc
won't teach you squat if you don't have a good foundation from reading
the docs, asking questions *about what you don't understand. NOT what
you want for free*, and taking things one step at a time.
: the problem themselves and they're not just "bitching" people all the
: time.
Well, duh. You've completely misunderstood my point, but that's
okay. You're probably helpless.
--
Nathan V. Patwardhan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:50:14 -0400
From: Stanton Loh <sloh@palisade.com>
Subject: Re: Grieving our dying community
Message-Id: <35520266.5D49ECFE@palisade.com>
Nathan V. Patwardhan wrote:
>
> What is it with many of you people? Why do you complain complain
> complain without offering any solutions? You're destroying all of the
> good things that the free software community was built on: dedication,
> contribution and openness. If not for the hard work of many people > in--
That Perl makes it easy to do easy things is a seductive
lure to all types including the lazy, the ignorant and the
selfish. The portion of the community that dies I predict
will not be the core and spirit of Perl. In the worst case,
they will merely move on to grander things, to the future
benefit of us all.
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:14:40 GMT
From: nvp@shore.net (Nathan V. Patwardhan)
Subject: Re: Grieving our dying community
Message-Id: <6it170$nbm@fridge.shore.net>
Will Smith (wsmith@NOSPAM.ctron.com) wrote:
: I'd like to think that Nathan was aiming for the noise makers....
I'd like to get people involved in changing things. Starting today.
If it requires lots of noise, so be it.
--
Nathan V. Patwardhan
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 15:21:10 -0400
From: Frank Blanchard <fb@whitaker.org>
Subject: Help Please: How Do I Test A String
Message-Id: <355209A6.2739@whitaker.org>
i want to test a string to see if
it contains any characters other
than spaces.
i tried ne "" and ne " "
and some other iterations.
can it be done?
thanks in advance.
-fb
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 12:08:54 -0700
From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Subject: Re: Help... validate FTP links?
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980507113828.27519F-100000@shell6.ba.best.com>
> Hi!
hello to you, too!
from your post, i'm unsure if the links you're given are internal links to
a machine over which you have control, or links to the net at large?
if they are links to a machine over which you have control, you can verify
the existence of a file or directory on that machine using perl's file
tests (-e for file exists, -d for file is a directory).
if they are links to other machines, i might take a look the libwww module
available on cpan. methods for just about every conceivable type of net
communication are there, including ftp.
good luck!
> I have a perl script where visitors can add their own FTP links (don't
> ask me why...), the problem is that I want the script to validate the
> link.
> Everytime a user adds a link, I want the script to check if the FTP
> and the directory really exists... is this possible?
>
> I'm a newbie to this perl thing... ;-)
we all were once. don't let the bastards get you down ;)
m@
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:59:31 GMT
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: How to delete an element in an array?
Message-Id: <6it0aj$rgb$2@csnews.cs.colorado.edu>
Keywords: holocaust Jules mobility veranda
[courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email]
In comp.lang.perl.misc, mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus) writes:
:But for this person, the real, unasked
:question is `what's the best way to do sets in Perl?', and the right
:answer to this question is usually (not always, but usually) ``do sets
:with hashes, not lists.''
And that small remainder of the time, it's probably bit vectors.
--tom
--
When in doubt, parenthesize. At the very least it will let some
poor schmuck bounce on the % key in vi.
--Larry Wall in the perl man page
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:26:42 GMT
From: Bob Shair (courtesy) <rmshair@delphi.itg.uiuc.edu>
Subject: Re: Maintaining File position.
Message-Id: <6it1ti$do3$1@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>
Greg Piney <greg_piney@mhc-smtp-mail.mcgraw-hill.com> wrote:
> Is there any easy way (oxymoron) to do the following
> read in a file till a "marker" is read.
> do something to all that has been read until, but not including, the
> marker.
> resume reading at the "marker"
> loop through the above until EOF.
What about setting the Perl input record separator, $/, to the
marker? $/ can be more than one character long.
You can then just say:
while (<FILE>) { doit }
--
Bob Shair rmshair@delphi.itg.uiuc.edu
Open Systems Specialist Champaign, Illinois
/* Opinions expressed are mine... go get your own! */
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:10:16 -0600
From: Robert Goff <ragoff@sandia.gov>
Subject: Modifying $0
Message-Id: <35520718.64986D9B@sandia.gov>
I thought I'd use $0 to modify the process name to indcate my script's
status, like it suggests in the Camel book, but found that it doesn't
seem to work on HPUX10.2. Can anyone shed light on why some OSs allow
perl to change the process name and some don't? Thanks.
--
=================================================
Robert Goff email: ragoff@sandia.gov
Sandia National Labs Phone: (505)284-3639
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 15:26:35 -0400
From: mjd@op.net (Mark-Jason Dominus)
Subject: Re: Modifying $0
Message-Id: <6it1tb$5c3$1@monet.op.net>
Keywords: Buchwald every mini write
In article <35520718.64986D9B@sandia.gov>,
Robert Goff <ragoff@sandia.gov> wrote:
>I thought I'd use $0 to modify the process name to indcate my script's
>status, like it suggests in the Camel book, but found that it doesn't
>seem to work on HPUX10.2. Can anyone shed light on why some OSs allow
>perl to change the process name and some don't? Thanks.
My recall is that on some systems, `ps' grovels through the Kernel
memory to get the names, and on others, it grovels through the address
spaces of the processes themselves, looking for argv[0]. You can
change argv[0], because that's yours, but you can't change the kernel
memory.
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 19:09:14 GMT
From: petdance@maxx.mc.net (Andy Lester)
Subject: Re: Perl on Win95?
Message-Id: <6it0sq$t4k$1@usenet11.supernews.com>
: So now that I've got Perl installed (and can run a script), how do I run
: Perl as a CGI script? What I'm trying to do is run a cgi script on a
: local (win95) machine (which is not set up as a web server). I want to
: use this system to test scripts before they get uploaded to the server
: we use. Any thoughts?
Yes. I think you should do some research, even the barest shred of it,
before posting questions like this in a newsgroup.
xoxo,
Andy
--
--
Andy Lester: <andy@petdance.com> http://tezcat.com/~andy/
Chicago Shows List: <shows@ChicagoMusic.com> http://ChicagoMusic.com/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:24:13 +0100
From: Andy Armstrong <andy@wonderworks.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Perl on Win95?
Message-Id: <wpBBOUAdpgU1EwoQ@wndrwrks.demon.co.uk>
In article <3551EF8A.1FF@surveystar.com>, Glenn Davis
<gdavis@surveystar.com> writes
>So now that I've got Perl installed (and can run a script), how do I run
>Perl as a CGI script? What I'm trying to do is run a cgi script on a
>local (win95) machine (which is not set up as a web server). I want to
>use this system to test scripts before they get uploaded to the server
>we use. Any thoughts?
If you actually want to have them run when you tell your browser to go
to a URL like
http://127.0.0.1/cgi-bin/myscript.pl
then you'll need to run a server locally on your machine. If you just
want to test them for perly correctness you can fake the calling
conditions which a CGI script finds (by setting a few environment
variables in your script).
--
** Don't CC any follow-ups to me - I *do* read the newsgroups I post to **
Andy Armstrong, Wonderworks, http://www.wonderworks.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 19:40:45 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: ~arthur <star@sonic.net>
Subject: Re: perl scripts dealing with /etc/passwd
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980507120650.18886A-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Thu, 7 May 1998, ~arthur wrote:
> I am no pro but I found this useful http://www.rlaj.com/scripts/
I was curious to see what script at that site dealt with /etc/passwd, but
I didn't see one which did. The closest I saw was this one:
http://www.rlaj.com/scripts/password/adduser.txt
Here are some excerpts from that program, with my comments directed
towards the code's author, whom I've CC'd. These are intended not as
flames, but as pointers which I hope will help to improve this and other
code.
> #!/usr/bin/perl
You should develop scripts with -w turned on, even if you'll turn it off
after development. But this script doesn't seem to be -w clean. :-( Also,
it should be written to 'use strict'.
> if ($ENV{'REQUEST_METHOD'} eq "POST"){
>
> # Get the input
> read(STDIN, $buffer, $ENV{'CONTENT_LENGTH'});
Yes, this is the same broken code we've seen dozens of times. If you don't
want to take the time to properly implement the CGI protocol yourself, you
should use a module to do so.
> $value =~ s/<!--(.|\n)*-->//g;
I think someone wrote that line thinking that the value submitted from a
form might be placed upon a page which supports server-side includes, and
that this would plug a security hole. But, of course, SSI should be turned
on only when it's known to be safe, else _that_ is the security hole.
> open FILE, "$passfile";
Even when your script is "just an example" (and perhaps especially in that
case!) you should _always_ check the return value after opening a file. Of
course, those quote marks aren't doing anything.
> while (<FILE>)
> {
> if (/$FORM{'username'}/o)
> {
> &already_there;
I don't think so. For one thing, if the submitted username is not a valid
regular expression, your script crashes. For another, this doesn't let
Tony sign up once Tonya has. That's not polite! And are you intending to
allow (for example) newlines within usernames? I don't see anything in the
code which would prevent that.
> close FILE;
>
> exit 0;
> }
> }
> close FILE;
Hmmm... It looks as if there's a concurrency problem here.
> $password = "$FORM{'password'}";
> $pass = crypt($password, "MM");
A constant salt? Hmmm...
> $PRINT = "Content-type:\ text/plain\n\n ";
What's that first backslash doing?
> {
> $PRINT;
What's that line doing?
There are enough dubious parts to this code that I can't recommend it to
anyone until it's re-written to use 'use strict', flock, and proper CGI
decoding, at the very least.
I hope that these comments and suggestions will help to improve this and
similar scripts. Cheers!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:32:15 GMT
From: ced@bcstec.ca.boeing.com (Charles DeRykus)
Subject: Re: pipe turns off the alarm() ?
Message-Id: <EsLq9s.nx@news.boeing.com>
In article <6ispen$6fm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, <kis1380@cs.rit.edu> wrote:
>Dear Perl Gods,
>
>I am using the following script to rsh to a computer and execute a command -
>in this case, the command is date.
>I fork a child because if the computer that I connect to is "hosed" the rsh
>will take forever to come back with something like "RPC error" or "Connection
>timed out" (if it comes back).
>In this script I give the rsh 6 seconds to complete, and after that the alarm
>goes off and kills the child. The parent is waiting for the child to finish
>(or be finished). This works fine, but I need to pass the result from the rsh
>back to the parent. As far as I know I can do that with pipe. However when I
>use pipe the alarm does not go off - neither the parent's nor the child's
>alarm.
>I can always have the child write to a file and parent read it, but this is
>not a very good solution.
>
>If somebody has an idea of how this could work I would appreciate it very
>much.
>
>Thank you!
>
>
>Katerina
>
>
>#!/usr/local/bin/perl
>
>
>pipe(INPUT,OUTPUT);
>$retval = fork();
>
>
>if($retval != 0){
> #parent
> close(OUTPUT);
> alarm(10);
> $procid = wait();
> alarm();
> $date = <INPUT>;
> print("I got $date from my child\n");
> print(" status of waitpid is $procid\n");
>}
>else {
> #child
> close(INPUT);
> alarm(6);
> $date = `rsh nice date`;
> print OUTPUT ($date);
>}
>
>
You'll have more luck I believe with something like this:
eval {
local $SIG{ALARM} = sub { die "timed out" };
close(INPUT)
alarm(6);
$date = `rsh ... 2>&1`;
alarm(0);
...
};
if ($@ =~ /^timed out/) {
...
} elsif ($@) {
...
} else {
...
}
Check out perldoc -f alarm
Also, it's wise to check out error returns from pipe and fork.
You elided those - probably intending to do it later, right :)
HTH,
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 21:17:55 +0200
From: fantha <fantha@berlin1.netsurf.de>
Subject: pop/push,shift/unshift ?????
Message-Id: <98050721192100.05043@FPC>
Hi there!
It's me again. First I'd like to thank everyone who
helped me with my simple problem ("chomp").
Now I've got a second question. The author of my
perl book writes about the functions pop/push,shift/unshift.
But he doesn't explain these functions. Really bad.
He shows an example, but I dont know what he means by that.
Here they are:
>> @ary = ("aa", "bb", "cc");
>> push (@ary, "hi"); # @ary = (..)
>> unshift (@ary, "ho"); # @ary = (..)
>> $popped = pop(@ary); # @ary = (..), $popped = ..
>> $shifted = shift @ary; # @ary = (..), $shifted = ..
What the hell does this mean ?
Please try to explain it to me.
Jens
email: fantha@berlin1.netsurf.de
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:31:08 -0400
From: xuming wang <"xuming "@ email.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: tr/[\000-\177]/[\200-\377]/ doesn't work for '['
Message-Id: <6isupo$bou$1@fddinewz.oit.unc.edu>
Honza Pazdziora wrote:
> Try
> tr[\000-\177][\200-\377];
> or
> tr/\000-\177/\200-\377/;
>
> Your code said to convert [ to [, which is exactly what it did.
thanks!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:26:39 -0500
From: Mark Conty <mconty@year.grain.cargill.com>
Subject: Unable to use CPAN.pm through firewall
Message-Id: <35520AEF.5A5C@year.grain.cargill.com>
Hi, all --
Back a few months ago, I tried all sorts of contorsions in Net/Config.pm
to try to get past our HTTP & FTP proxy servers. (I'm sure that
ignorance is part of the problem; I don't know, f'rinstance, whether or
not my FTP proxy is considered "passive".) With much discussion taking
place about CPAN, it seems that now is as good a time as any to ask for
some help with this.
Can anyone explain, from looking at my CPAN and Net Config.pm files
included below, why all my attempts to use the CPAN module in a shell
mode fail to get out to the various remote CPAN sites that I have
listed? Or if someone is operating [successfully] behind a very
restricted firewall, would you be willing to send me a copy of your
two Config.pm files, to provide a functional starting point?
I have an HTTP automatic proxy set up in Netscape, as well as an FTP
proxy that I have to log into before connecting in turn to an outside
FTP site with a secondary USER directive (e.g., "user
anonymous@<site>").
It's only _then_ that I am put in contact with the site and can navigate
around in FTP. Now, is this what is meant by a passive FTP proxy? If
"passive" has the same meaning here as it does elsewhere, then this my
having to do all the manual logging in and such doesn't strike as very
passive! :-)
I have a version of "lynx" for my version of HP-UX, but I saw in the
code that it doesn't yet support proxy authorization, so I'm probably
outta luck anyway, even if I _were_ to get CPAN working for our
restricted firewall environment here. Or might it be the case that I
can still use CPAN through our firewall without having to make use of
"lynx"?
Anyway, if someone could take a minute and look through this and tell
me what's wrong with it, I'd sure appreciate it:
Here's Net/Config.pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
package Net::Config;
require Exporter;
use vars qw(@ISA @EXPORT %NetConfig);
use strict;
@EXPORT = qw(%NetConfig);
@ISA = qw(Exporter);
sub set
{
my $pkg = shift if @_ % 2;
my %cfg = @_;
return unless @_;
# Only require these modules if we need to
require Data::Dumper;
require IO::File;
require Carp;
require File::Copy;
my $mod = $INC{'Net/Config.pm'} or
Carp::croak("Can't find myself");
my $bak = $mod . "~";
print "Updating $mod...\n";
File::Copy::copy($mod,$bak) or
Carp::croak("Cannot create backup file $bak: $!");
print "...backup at $bak\n";
my $old = new IO::File $bak,"r" or
Carp::croak("Can't open $bak: $!");
my $new = new IO::File $mod,"w" or
Carp::croak("Can't open $mod: $!");
# If we fail below, then we must restore from backup
local $SIG{'__DIE__'} = sub {
print "Restoring $mod from backup!!\n";
unlink $mod;
rename $bak, $mod;
print "Done.\n";
exit 1;
};
%NetConfig = (%NetConfig, %cfg);
while (<$old>)
{
last if /^%NetConfig/;
$new->print($_);
}
$new->print ( Data::Dumper->Dump([\%NetConfig],['*NetConfig']) );
$new->print("\n1;\n");
close $old;
close $new;
}
# WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
# WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
#
# Below this line is auto-generated, *ANY* changes will be lost
%NetConfig = (
test_hosts => '1',
nntp_hosts => [],
snpp_hosts => [],
pop3_hosts => ['myhost.mydomain.cargill.com'],
ftp_ext_passive => '1',
smtp_hosts => ['myhost.mydomain.cargill.com'],
ftp_testhost => undef,
inet_domain => 'mydomain.cargill.com',
ph_hosts => [],
test_exist => '1',
daytime_hosts => [],
ftp_int_passive => '0',
ftp_firewall => 'myFTPproxy.cargill.com',
time_hosts => [],
);
1;
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
... and CPAN/Config.pm:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
# This is CPAN.pm's systemwide configuration file. This file provides
# defaults for users, and the values can be changed in a per-user
configuration
# file. The user-config file is being looked for as
~/.cpan/CPAN/MyConfig.pm.
$CPAN::Config = {
'build_cache' => q[10],
'build_dir' => q[/usr/local/lib/.cpan/build],
'cpan_home' => q[/usr/local/lib/.cpan],
'ftp' => q[/usr/bin/ftp],
'ftp_proxy' => q[myFTPhost.cargill.com],
'gzip' => q[/usr/local/bin/gzip],
'http_proxy' => q[http://www.myHTTPproxy.cargill.com:<port>/],
'inactivity_timeout' => q[0],
'index_expire' => q[1],
'inhibit_startup_message' => q[0],
'keep_source_where' => q[/usr/local/lib/.cpan/sources],
'lynx' => q[],
'make' => q[/bin/make],
'make_arg' => q[],
'make_install_arg' => q[],
'makepl_arg' => q[],
'no_proxy' => q[],
'pager' => q[/usr/local/bin/less],
'shell' => q[/bin/ksh],
'tar' => q[/bin/tar],
'unzip' => q[unzip],
'urllist' => [q[ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/],
q[ftp://ftp.cs.colorado.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/],
q[ftp://ftp.orst.edu/pub/packages/CPAN/],
q[ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/lang/perl/CPAN/]],
'wait_list' => [],
};
1;
__END__
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks again!
--
Mark Conty mark_conty@cargill.com (work)
Cargill Grain Division mdc@isd.net (home)
CGD/LYNX Server Support <>< Phone: 612/984-0503
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:50:59 +0100
From: Andy Armstrong <andy@wonderworks.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Win95 Perl scripts DONT WORK on UNIX
Message-Id: <VJSI2MATKgU1EwOf@wndrwrks.demon.co.uk>
In article <3551BE81.2A7F819A@nortel.co.uk>, Frank L. Quednau
<quednauf@nortel.co.uk> writes
[snick]
>FILENAMES SUDDENLY APPEARED IN CAPITAL LETTERS. But not all
>actually, a couple remained in small letters. Beat that!
Let me guess. The ones which remained in mixed / lower case were longer
than 8 characters or had extensions of more than 3 characters. Yes?
--
** Don't CC any follow-ups to me - I *do* read the newsgroups I post to **
Andy Armstrong, Wonderworks, http://www.wonderworks.co.uk
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
the single line:
subscribe perl-users
or:
unsubscribe perl-users
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.misc (and this Digest), send your
article to perl-users@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
The Meta-FAQ, an article containing information about the FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users meta-faq". The real FAQ, as it
appeared last in the newsgroup, can be retrieved with the request "send
perl-users FAQ". Due to their sizes, neither the Meta-FAQ nor the FAQ
are included in the digest.
The "mini-FAQ", which is an updated version of the Meta-FAQ, is
available by requesting "send perl-users mini-faq". It appears twice
weekly in the group, but is not distributed in the digest.
For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V8 Issue 2532
**************************************
