[8914] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2530 Volume: 8
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu May 7 15:07:53 1998
Date: Thu, 7 May 98 12:00:47 -0700
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 7 May 1998 Volume: 8 Number: 2530
Today's topics:
accent in perl... <cristina.durana@iie.min-edu.pt>
Re: accent in perl... <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Re: Adding 600 users to a Linux password file (Brian Wheeler)
Re: Adding 600 users to a Linux password file (brian d foy)
Boston-Programmer position for Electronic Publisher mrint@msn.com
Re: Boston-Programmer position for Electronic Publisher (brian d foy)
calculate expressions <keutgen@componet.de>
Re: calculate expressions (Hakan Hjelmstrom)
Can you modify an output line and reread it? <tturton@cowboys.anet-dfw.com>
Re: cd with a perl-script <aroemer@vossnet.de>
Re: cd with a perl-script (Arthur Hagen)
Re: Challange for perl `GURUS` <buzz@bear.com>
Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?) (Mitchell Morris)
Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?) (Craig Berry)
CPAN Suggestions (conciliatory) (Clinton Pierce)
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? <zenin@archive.rhps.org>
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Chris Nandor)
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Craig Berry)
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? <zenin@archive.rhps.org>
Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules? (Brett Tabke)
Fetch Remote HTML Pages <bill@igic.com>
function prototyping <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Re: function prototyping <rootbeer@teleport.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:08:31 +0200
From: Cristina Durana <cristina.durana@iie.min-edu.pt>
Subject: accent in perl...
Message-Id: <3551DC7E.EE4E2291@iie.min-edu.pt>
I need to know how I can I put a accent in a vogal, in perl.
Thanks in advance
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:12:43 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: Cristina Durana <cristina.durana@iie.min-edu.pt>
Subject: Re: accent in perl...
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980507105907.28811K-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Thu, 7 May 1998, Cristina Durana wrote:
> I need to know how I can I put a accent in a vogal, in perl.
I don't know the word "vogal". Could you mean that you want to make an
accented character? Perl supports many ways to get your system's special
characters into a string; see perlop's discussion of "Quote and Quote-like
Operators" for some examples. In most cases, you can type the character
directly into a quoted string, if your system supports that.
Of course, your system's special characters may not be the same as another
system's. So, if you are communicating with another system via a protocol
(such as HTML) you should use that protocol's method of encoding special
characters. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:09:34 GMT
From: bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler)
Subject: Re: Adding 600 users to a Linux password file
Message-Id: <6istcu$tfe$1@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>
In article <ebohlmanEsK2Iq.DEv@netcom.com>,
Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> writes:
> David Fetter <dfetter@shell4.ba.best.com> wrote:
>
>: Perl4 has CERT warnings and published cracks out for it. Your ISP is
>: subject to mitnickization and should get rid of it immediately.
>
> You forgot to mention that there are no plans to make Perl4 Y2K-compliant.
>
What's not Y2K about it? localtime is years since 1900, not just
a 2 digit year. I hope this was a troll...
Brian Wheeler
bdwheele@indiana.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:31:40 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Adding 600 users to a Linux password file
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R0705981431400001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <6istcu$tfe$1@jetsam.uits.indiana.edu>, bdwheele@indiana.edu (Brian Wheeler) posted:
>In article <ebohlmanEsK2Iq.DEv@netcom.com>,
> Eric Bohlman <ebohlman@netcom.com> writes:
>> You forgot to mention that there are no plans to make Perl4 Y2K-compliant.
> What's not Y2K about it? localtime is years since 1900, not just
>a 2 digit year. I hope this was a troll...
who said it wasn't Y2K? what you infer and what was said may be
different :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
that Randal...
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:56:23 GMT
From: mrint@msn.com
Subject: Boston-Programmer position for Electronic Publisher
Message-Id: <6issk6$bjm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>
Programmer
Immediate opening for programmer to develop tools formaintaining active SGML
databases and publishing SGML and HTML data to the web. Applicant would also
help with CGI scripting, Webmaster duties, and other aspects of creating and
maintaining an innovative, information-loaded site.
Experience required: either SGML or HTML, and Unix.Experience with at least
one programming language such asPerl or Omnimark is necessary. Skills with
Arbortext/Adept editor,Java/Javascript and Windows/NT helpful.
Looking for flexible, organized, and committed individualto work with
exceptional,innovative team of programmers and editors on developing their
interactive reference site.They are an electronic publisher of comprehensive
reference material on the web and in print including almanacs,authoritative
sports, entertainment, and general reference information published for more
than 50 years.They are a friendly, 20-person plus company located in the
heart of Boston.Lots of room to grow!Quick hiring process.No games.
Contact:
Bill Saylor,Manager
Management Recruiters
mrint@msn.com
800-779-1502
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:24:38 -0400
From: comdog@computerdog.com (brian d foy)
Subject: Re: Boston-Programmer position for Electronic Publisher
Message-Id: <comdog-ya02408000R0705981424380001@news.panix.com>
Keywords: from just another new york perl hacker
In article <6issk6$bjm$1@nnrp1.dejanews.com>, mrint@msn.com posted:
>Programmer
>Immediate opening for programmer to develop tools formaintaining active SGML
[snip]
>heart of Boston.Lots of room to grow!Quick hiring process.No games.
^^^^^^^^^
despite how much fun it is to hang out with Boston.pm, i couldn't
work for someone who didn't allow me to play minesweeper. :)
--
brian d foy <comdog@computerdog.com>
CGI Meta FAQ <URL:http://computerdog.com/CGI_MetaFAQ.html>
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) <URL:http://www.perl.com>
Perl Mongers <URL:http://www.pm.org>
and, i like my <spacebar>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:57:43 +0200
From: Ingo Keutgen <keutgen@componet.de>
Subject: calculate expressions
Message-Id: <3551E807.57DB936F@componet.de>
Hello,
there is perhaps a solution available but I can't find it.
I need to calculate simple expressions with the basic
operators like +,-,*,/ and brackets.
An example could be in the varable $expr stands the expression
5*x+(3*(x-5))
and I know x=5
so the Programm neds to be able to calculate this expression.
Has anyone a solution ? I found classes for Java but not for Perl.
Thanks in advance
Ingo Keutgen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 17:29:56 GMT
From: hawk@algonet.se (Hakan Hjelmstrom)
Subject: Re: calculate expressions
Message-Id: <3553eebf.17483329@news.algonet.se>
On Thu, 07 May 1998 18:57:43 +0200, Ingo Keutgen wrote:
> there is perhaps a solution available but I can't find it.
> I need to calculate simple expressions with the basic
> operators like +,-,*,/ and brackets.
> An example could be in the varable $expr stands the expression
> 5*x+(3*(x-5)) and I know x=5 so the Programm neds to be able
> to calculate this expression.
Looks like the eval function could be your friend.
#!/usr/bin/perl -w
use strict;
my $expr = '5*x+(3*(x-5))';
$expr =~ s/x/5/g;
print eval( $expr );
Hekan Hjelmstrvm
hawk@algonet.se
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:38:57 -0500
From: Tom Turton <tturton@cowboys.anet-dfw.com>
Subject: Can you modify an output line and reread it?
Message-Id: <3551F1B1.4ACC5982@cowboys.anet-dfw.com>
I'm not to the level of being able to use modules, but was wondering if
you can do
this through basic Perl commands -
I'd like to output a line with a default value at the end, then allow
the user to either
keep that value (hit RETURN), or write over it, hit RETURN and have the
default value updated.
Trial and error showed me I can't "backspace" over the variable; is
there a Perl command which lets you do this?
Trying to do this:
Have Perl script write out to screen: The default value is: ABC
Now let user either backspace thru C, B, A and type in XYZ
Am I asking for the impossible?
Thanks,
---Tom
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 19:31:57 +0200
From: "Axel Rvmer" <aroemer@vossnet.de>
Subject: Re: cd with a perl-script
Message-Id: <6isqm8$u2k$2@news.vossnet.de>
H. Eckert schrieb in Nachricht ...
>michael.pokerschnig@stk.co.at (Michael Pokerschnig):
>> If the script finds the file it should set the current working dircetory
>> of the shell from which it was called.
>
>No way you can do this with Unix unless you call the script in a
>special way.
>
>cd `scriptname`
>
>Greetings,
> Ripley
>--
>http://www.in-berlin.de/User/nostromo/
What about: . scriptname
------------------^ this is a dot!
The . (dot) command executes the following script in the *current* shell.
So, a "cd" in the script affects the current directory of the current shell!
HTH
Axel
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 20:13:35 +0200
From: art@flying.broomstick.com (Arthur Hagen)
Subject: Re: cd with a perl-script
Message-Id: <fktsi6.hbf.ln@flying.broomstick.com>
In article <6isqm8$u2k$2@news.vossnet.de>, "Axel Rvmer" <aroemer@vossnet.de> writes:
> What about: . scriptname
> ------------------^ this is a dot!
Funny, it looks like a "p" to me.
> The . (dot) command executes the following script in the *current* shell.
> So, a "cd" in the script affects the current directory of the current shell!
Sure, but that too makes assumptions about the shell being of the
bourne shell family, and will change everything else that the script
does to the environment too, and not just the cwd.
The equivalent for shells of the csh family would be:
% source scriptname
Regards,
--
*Art
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 13:08:42 -0400
From: Buzz Moschetti <buzz@bear.com>
Subject: Re: Challange for perl `GURUS`
Message-Id: <3551EA9A.6FEA@bear.com>
vimal gajjar wrote:
>
> Hi there,
> Here is a small challange. Is it possible to have a perl
> code which takes e.g. three parameters as input. time, val1, val2. and
> the name of the prog. is say challange.pl. Now if i execute
> "challange.pl 10 5 2" this perl script wille consume
> 5% of cpu
> 2 Mb of RAM
> for the period of 10 Seconds.
>
> can one of the gurus take this challange?
Examining the 5 copies of this post has consumed 5% of the
brain power I allocate to reviewing c.l.p.m, about 10 seconds, and
has caused the death of 2 million brain cells.
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:17:58 GMT
From: mgm@unpkhswm04.bscc.bls.com (Mitchell Morris)
Subject: Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <slrn6l3umm.f6s.mgm@unpkhswm04.bscc.bls.com>
On Thu, 07 May 1998 15:34:36 GMT, Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
[snip]
>You can probably do this right now on your machine. And I don't mind that
>you didn't bother to read your docs before asking about search facilities,
>what I mind is that you assumed there were none and attacked that fact
>before reading all your CPAN docs.
>
>--
>Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
>MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
>%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
This reminds me intensely of "Inside Macintosh" ... to understand any given
chapter you must first understand all of the others. In order not to offend
by asking questions concerning CPAN usage, you must first understand CPAN
usage to the point where you don't need to ask any questions. Alternately,
you can read every document supplied with both the perl core and all modules
on CPAN, and then you'll know which questions you'll be allowed to ask about
modules on CPAN that you haven't yet installed.
As it turns out, I am familiar with WAIT. What I am saying, and feel that you
are not addressing, is the following: how does the user who is generally
clueful but new to perl know to use it?
$ perldoc perlfaq | grep keyword
$ find /usr/local/lib/perl5/pod -type f -print |
>xargs grep -ni "line editing"
/usr/local/lib/perl5/pod/perldsc.pod:304:debugger includes several ...
$ perldoc perldsc
...
$ perldoc -k "line editing"
Unknown option: k
perldoc [options] PageName|ModuleName|ProgramName...
perldoc [options] -f BuiltinFunction
Options:
-h Display this help message
-t Display pod using pod2text instead of pod2man and nroff
(-t is the default on win32)
-u Display unformatted pod text
-m Display modules file in its entirety
-l Display the modules file name
-v Verbosely describe what's going on
PageName|ModuleName...
is the name of a piece of documentation that you want to look at. You
may either give a descriptive name of the page (as in the case of
`perlfunc') the name of a module, either like `Term::Info',
`Term/Info', the partial name of a module, like `info', or
`makemaker', or the name of a program, like `perldoc'.
BuiltinFunction
is the name of a perl function. Will extract documentation from
`perlfunc'.
Any switches in the PERLDOC environment variable will be used before the
command line arguments.
$ perl -MCPAN -e shell
cpan shell -- CPAN exploration and modules installation (v1.36)
cpan> i /line editing/
Going to read /usr/local/archive/CPAN/authors/01mailrc.txt.gz
CPAN: Compress::Zlib loaded ok
Going to read /usr/local/archive/CPAN/modules/02packages.details.txt.gz
Scanning cache /usr/local/build for sizes
Going to read /usr/local/archive/CPAN/modules/03modlist.data.gz
No objects found of any type for argument /line editing/
cpan> q
Lockfile removed.
$
Now, the user who first tries "perldoc" and "CPAN" finds squat. If he is
feeling lucky, he may next post to c.l.p.m and ask if there is a module to do
this. If he tries this, I suspect he'll get a whole bunch of "use a module,
stupid" responses, perhaps many including disparaging remarks about his
lack of clue and/or laziness.
The only way he gets the answer he needs is by mentioning he's looking for
line editing but asking how to become a perl research librarian. I will grant
that this is a more useful answer long-term, but the disparagement is neither
necessary nor appropriate.
Curiously enough, I can duplicate the results of "wq pudge" by "d /CNANDOR/".
I would have been more impressed if it had turned up calorie counting or
meal planning modules.
--
Mitchell Morris
mmorris@mindspring.com
If two men agree on everything, you may be sure that one of them is
doing the thinking.
-- Lyndon Baines Johnson
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:20:40 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: CPAN & Module gripes (was Re: Ever Wonder...?)
Message-Id: <6isu1o$34a$2@marina.cinenet.net>
Chris Nandor (pudge@pobox.com) wrote:
: In article <354FE0C3.5D93653E@coos.dartmouth.edu>, rjk@coos.dartmouth.edu wrote:
: # Irrelevant. Craig wasn't *blaming* CPAN for the poor quality of module
: # descriptions. He simply said that if the module descriptions suck, then CPAN
: # sucks.
: #
: # Similarly, if all of the movies that you can rent from Blockbuster suck, then
: # Blockbuster sucks.
:
: He did not make the case that all the module descriptions suck. Or if he
: made that case, he made it poorly. He only made the case that some of
: them suck.
No, 'some of' was my intention. But enough that I've developed the
expectation that, when I go to get something from CPAN, it will be a
frustrating experience.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 17:58:49 GMT
From: cpierce1@cp500.fsic.ford.com (Clinton Pierce)
Subject: CPAN Suggestions (conciliatory)
Message-Id: <6issop$aqq1@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com>
Ok, since I drew the flames in the "CPAN & Module gripes" thread,
maybe I can help extinguish them. (I'm NOT retracting my position that
manual CPAN-spelunking is somewhat worse than annoying-- flames redirected
to "Message-ID: \<6il13g$cr21@eccws1.dearborn.ford.com\>").
Idea #1:
I'll open with something simple: can the modules be extracted/parsed/
folded/spindled in some automagic way to extract dependency information?
Possibly looking for things like:
qw( )
Module::
use
require
Perl should be able to do this, perl is the only thing that can parse
perl, after all. :-) If CPAN.pm can do this, then surely there's an
offline way to accomplish the same task.
Then, the CPAN repository could contain an area where the output of the
dependency tree is kept, arranged by module of course, all HREF'd so
that clicking down the dependency tree will download all of the needed
modules.
Idea #2: suggested by mgm@unpkhswm04.bscc.bls.com (Mitchell Morris) in
the flame thread.
Implement a search facility in CPAN. This might require that SOMEONE
host a CGI program to search the database, somewhere. Search on non-perl
keywords, or simply the texts contained in the embedded documentation
of the modules. (Of course, build the indexes offline).
::::
I'm not trying to turn CPAN into a point-and-drool facility. Just
making it somewhat more accessable, and self-documenting. We're all
developers here, and can appreciate how hard it is to keep README's and
other documentation all in perfect synch.
--
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Clinton A. Pierce | "If you rush a Miracle Man, | http://www. |
| cpierce1@ford.com | you get rotten miracles" | dcicorp.com/ |
| fubar@ameritech.net |--Miracle Max, The Princess Bride| ~clintp |
+------------------------------------------------------------------------+
GCSd-s+:+a-C++UALIS++++P+++L++E---t++X+b+++DI++++G++e+>++h----r+++y+++>y*
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 17:42:09 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@archive.rhps.org>
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <894563385.715453@thrush.omix.com>
Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
: I don't trust people who do not understand the subject they are
: programming on. Sue me.
>snip<
My code speaks for itself. If you are indeed so greatly gifted
with the subject, you should be able to tell at an instant if the
protocol is being handled correctly and robustly. Until you can
show even one flaw in my code, your arguments on this point
are meaningless.
: I have
: never seen someone who really knows a protocol repeatedly get it wrong
: like that, and I don't think I ever will.
You haven't read many posts made late at night after far too many
hours of coding. I do a lot of work in SNMP and my fingers get
stuck in typing SN a lot, sue me. As long as someone doesn't
type cat d-o-g, the world isn't going to come to a end.
So far, the only argument you have against my point of view that
you're willing to defend is a typo?!?! You don't dare get back to the
point simply because you know your wrong. No, you must keep picking
on a flipping typo made in one post that no one but you has seen
fit to care about. Somehow, without even bothing to glance at
publicly available code you've managed to base my entire background
of network mail systems on a typo in one post. Or have you read my
code and find you can't make any valid case against it. Every time a
real issue comes up, you bring up this typo and refuse to offer any
discussion about the real subjects.
Get over it already. Make a real point already or shut the hell up.
: Depends on the sysadmin.
Great. You're basing the entire portability and robustness of your
application on the luck that the sysadmin at end user's site will do
anything other then his job. Great...
: Regardless, whoever is the admin of perl on the
: system is responsible to know to update Net::Config.
Still got those rose tinted glasses on hay? "perl admins". Sorry,
they just don't happen at the *vast* majority of systems around. And
why the hell would they? Does GCC need a special "admin"??? Tcl,
Python, sh, csh et al??? Is Perl so completely brain dead that
without a special care nurse at it's side 24/7 it will go into
a comma???
When you finish up in that nice sensory deprivation tank I'd love
to try it out.
: But the main point
: is that the only option you gave for fixing perl when the system mailer
: changed is to recompile libnet, which is simply wrong. It is the last
: resort for people who don't have a clue how to administrate their modules.
Now you're saying that any admin that feels that hand editing
*installed* modules doesn't have a clue how to administrate their
modules??? Sure, anyone can hack new values into a misc module.
Doesn't matter. It's liken to a admin needing to hack new values
into system C header files when they change mail servers.
And didn't you state in a post or two ago you were going to drop
the thread anyway? What happend, hadn't found enough typos yet?
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:04:01 GMT
From: pudge@pobox.com (Chris Nandor)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <pudge-0705981402050001@192.168.0.3>
In article <894563385.715453@thrush.omix.com>, Zenin
<zenin@archive.rhps.org> wrote:
# Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
# Get over it already. Make a real point already or shut the hell up.
<Snicker>
# : Depends on the sysadmin.
#
# Great. You're basing the entire portability and robustness of your
# application on the luck that the sysadmin at end user's site will do
# anything other then his job. Great...
It IS his job. Whoever admins perl, that is the job of that person. If
not the sysadmin, then whoever admins perl. At my work, I administrate
perl, but I am not the sysadmin. I keep the modules up-to-date and
happy. Making sure the right configs are in there is my job.
# : Regardless, whoever is the admin of perl on the
# : system is responsible to know to update Net::Config.
#
# Still got those rose tinted glasses on hay? "perl admins". Sorry,
# they just don't happen at the *vast* majority of systems around. And
# why the hell would they? Does GCC need a special "admin"??? Tcl,
# Python, sh, csh et al??? Is Perl so completely brain dead that
# without a special care nurse at it's side 24/7 it will go into
# a comma???
#
# When you finish up in that nice sensory deprivation tank I'd love
# to try it out.
Whatever requires a special config file needs to be administrated to some
degree. Look, if you don't like depending on Net::Config because someone
is not living up to his responsibilities or it has been determined that
this particular responsibility will not be fulfilled, then you can always
hardcode the values in your script.
#!perl -w
use strict;
use Net::SMTP;
my $smtp = Net::SMTP->new('mailhost'); # was that so hard?
Don't answer that question, I know the answer.
--
Chris Nandor mailto:pudge@pobox.com http://pudge.net/
MacPerl: Power and Ease (ISBN 1881957322), http://www.ptf.com/macperl/
%PGPKey = ('B76E72AD', [1024, '0824090B CE73CA10 1FF77F13 8180B6B6'])
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:04:45 GMT
From: cberry@cinenet.net (Craig Berry)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <6ist3t$34a$1@marina.cinenet.net>
Nathan V. Patwardhan (nvp@shore.net) wrote:
: Craig Berry (cberry@cinenet.net) wrote:
: : And, by the way, while CPAN.pm is great, it's not a cure-all. I can't use
: : it (for example) on my old brain-dead DOS box, where I do a good deal of
: : Perl development. I have spent far too much time trying to find (say)
:
: Sad to say it, but you've incriminated yourself here. By calling your
: box brain-dead, it's no longer the fault of CPAN or CPAN.pm -- it's
: the fault of your box!
All too true for CPAN.pm...my only point was that, for those of us with
differently abled boxen, it would be nice if CPAN were more easily useable
*without* recourse to CPAN.pm. Believe me, on my other systems (ones I
use at work, or remotely for clients, or whatever) I lean very heavily on
CPAN.pm!
My point is that it's *not* the fault of CPAN.pm, but it arguably *is*
the fault of CPAN, which is alleged to be a human-useable archive of
available modules.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
| Craig Berry - cberry@cinenet.net
--*-- Home Page: http://www.cinenet.net/users/cberry/home.html
| Member of The HTML Writers Guild: http://www.hwg.org/
"Every man and every woman is a star."
------------------------------
Date: 7 May 1998 18:54:52 GMT
From: Zenin <zenin@archive.rhps.org>
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <894567748.542817@thrush.omix.com>
Chris Nandor <pudge@pobox.com> wrote:
Cool, we're back to real topics. Thanks.
: It IS his job. Whoever admins perl, that is the job of that person. If
: not the sysadmin, then whoever admins perl. At my work, I administrate
: perl, but I am not the sysadmin. I keep the modules up-to-date and
: happy. Making sure the right configs are in there is my job.
Just because the company mail admin decides to reroute mail all over
creation doesn't meen he's going to make sure the admin of a
random language installation is told promptly if at all. All he
rightfully should be in charge of is the mail servers and local
MTAs, and that's it. This is even to say there is a "perl admin",
because it makes just as much sense to notify the "admin" of a
GCC installation when the mail server moves.
All this is a mute point however, because SMTP is inherently a much
less reliable method of dispatching mail then the local MTA, period.
: Whatever requires a special config file needs to be administrated to some
: degree. Look, if you don't like depending on Net::Config because someone
: is not living up to his responsibilities or it has been determined that
: this particular responsibility will not be fulfilled, then you can always
: hardcode the values in your script.
Exactly! And now we're back to non-portable code because of it.
You can't trust that the SMTP settings will be correct, you can't
guess at the settings, a config entered manually into the
application would be easily over looked when the config changes, you
can't trust that if they are correct that the server will be
available at the exact instant you want to send mail. That's a
lot more then I'd ever want to not trust.
But, you can in 3 lines or less check if a useable MTA is available
that is much, much more likely to have current and correct settings,
and doesn't rely on any server or daemon to be up at any particular
point in time, if ever.
Using the local MTA also gives you much more flexibility in how
the process gets handled. If you like, you can easily tell it to
que all your mail to be delivered in bulk at the next normal mail
run. If you're doing a lot of mail, this could easily meen life
or death for your server. There isn't a single line of support
in RFC 821 for mail que control, among a host of other options
the MTA can give you over SMTP. This simple common practice
just can not be done via SMTP.
--
-Zenin
zenin@archive.rhps.org
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 12:35:07 -0500
From: phdss@writeme.comm (Brett Tabke)
Subject: Re: Ever Wonder Why Not Everyone Uses Modules?
Message-Id: <LDfU1IIelgPR092yn@netins.net>
Jon Drukman <jsd@gamespot.com> wrote:
>Brett Tabke wrote:
>> How is encouraging people to write there own programs greedy or
>> in any way spoiled?
>it's fine but then what happens is you get three zillion different
>competing HTML parsers/mail senders/whatever and supporting it all is a
>nightmare.
Whoa Jon, why?
That appears to be the main difference of opinion, I'd rather Perl
remain a programmers language instead of a users language. If it is
a programmers language, it can inspire people beyond the simple
weekend writting a script built around modules, into learning about
the systems underneath.
If it is to be a users language, then it is headed in the direction
of a csh with bells and that any actually programming is being
deffered in favor of glueing stuff together. It will become nothing
more than a batch/submit/exec/shell script language. If that is the
case, then I've compeletly misread Perl, I thought it was a hackers
language about ingenuity and creativity. I guess I've been doing
this for so long that the joy to me, is not always the finished
program, its what I've learned along the way to get there. (not
insinuating that in almost 20 years I've ever actually called a
program finished :)
>presumably the effort invested in writing a new module from
>scratch might be better spent improving the current one. (i bet most
>module authors would welcome a performance-boosting patch, or
>documentation improvements.)
I seem to recall a little thing referred to as black thursday in 87
(er was it 88?) which in large part, was due to folks using a
"perfectly working" finger routine that no one bothered to rewrite
because it worked so good. Much the same is with module - who would
consider redoing lww these days? All the net eggs are in that basket.
>> If the answer to every question becomes "just use module X" then we
>> are turning Perl from programming community into a simple user base.
>> (which is already happening).
>and this is bad because... why?
>the only reason that the answer to every question is "use module X" is
>because of the shockingly poor quality of the questions. "how do i do a
>web page hit counter" "how do i find the title of an html document"
good point - very true. I hadn't considered that line of reasoning
(I was to busy bailing water :-)
>etc... when people start asking for new and crazy stuff then new modules
>will be born. bet on it.
>> Look, I am just trying to fight a little for the future of Perl and
>> its vast diversity.
>i would rather the diversity were in the KIND of modules, rather than
>the QUANTITY... you are encouraging people to rewrite perfectly good
>things over and over again...
To a degree, yes I was leaning that way pretty far, but look at how
many folks (from reading the modules group) use the lww set - hasn't
it all but killed any new development in net routine writing? As
you said yourself, why rewrite a prefectly working module.
>Plan: Eat right, exercise regularly, die anyway.
hehe.
-bt
--
-- Brett Tabke (phdss at writeme.com) www.netins.net/showcase/phdss/
..."In '69 a couple of guys walked around on the moon, but more
important to the future of humanity, UNIX was invented" (c.bruce)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 14:42:45 -0400
From: Bill O'Neil <bill@igic.com>
Subject: Fetch Remote HTML Pages
Message-Id: <355200A5.56954F9@igic.com>
Is there any easy way to a 'copy' of a remote html page and any and all
embedded images and copy them to the machine running the script?
Thanks for any and all help.
Bill
bill@igic.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 11:09:19 -0700
From: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Subject: function prototyping
Message-Id: <Pine.BSF.3.96.980507105702.27519C-100000@shell6.ba.best.com>
hello all-
i'm considering the usefulness of prototyping my function calls. i
understand the impacts in terms of parsing and such, but i am wondering
whas experience people here have in terms of any speed change, either
positive or negative.
standard disclaimers:
1) RTFM's should come with the manual to read...
2) constructive comments please
3) destructive comments to me personally, don't spam
thanks.
matt =)
matthew d. p. k. lanier / professional hugger and empath / matt@lanier.org - i web, therefore i am / matt@saturn5.com - i read too many mailing lists / +1-415-505-4450 - i cell way too much / +1-415-863-2932 - i'm never home, but try it anyway /
_______
/ \
/ o o \
| ^ |
| |
___ \ \_/ / ___
__(___\ \__ __/ /___)__
(______ \________\ /_________/ ______)
(_______ ____________________ _______)
(______ / \ ______)
(_____/ \_____)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 May 1998 18:40:48 GMT
From: Tom Phoenix <rootbeer@teleport.com>
To: "matthew d. p. k. lanier" <lanier@shell6.ba.best.com>
Subject: Re: function prototyping
Message-Id: <Pine.GSO.3.96.980507113844.28811M-100000@user2.teleport.com>
On Thu, 7 May 1998, matthew d. p. k. lanier wrote:
> i am wondering whas experience people here have in terms of any speed
> change, either positive or negative.
Since prototyping affects only compile time, it should have no noticeable
effect on the runtime of any real-world program. In other words,
prototyping subs is not an issue of speed; when it's used, it's used for
other reasons. Hope this helps!
--
Tom Phoenix Perl Training and Hacking Esperanto
Randal Schwartz Case: http://www.rahul.net/jeffrey/ovs/
------------------------------
Date: 8 Mar 97 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 8 Mar 97)
Message-Id: <null>
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