[32159] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 3424 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Fri Jun 24 14:09:21 2011
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 11:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Fri, 24 Jun 2011 Volume: 11 Number: 3424
Today's topics:
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Module to check overlap? <ela@yantai.org>
Re: Module to check overlap? <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: Perl definition of newline? <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: Perl definition of newline? <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: Perl definition of newline? <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: Perl definition of newline? <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: Perl definition of newline? <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Re: Perl definition of newline? <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: upload file rom solaris to debian using perl base i <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:54:10 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <87ei2jv18t.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:32:38 +0100 Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
RW> The point is that perl doesn't detect what you have defined as
RW> 'typo' (namely, the string 'myenty' although there is really no
RW> inherent reason why it shouldn't be just the other way round) but
RW> that an hash item/ member whose values happens to be undef is being
RW> used, this being something genuinely different.
Sorry but your sentence doesn't make sense. The parenthetical remark
sort of does, so regarding that: obviously since there's only one
occurrence of each key in my example, the typo could go either way.
Let's assume I speak English and thus "myentry" is the right one instead
of "myenty".
RW> $c = $a - $b # should have been +
RW> $c = $a - $b # should have been $b - $a
RW> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> Those are not typos.
RW> I would agree with this statement insofar it refers to the second
RW> example but the '-' and '+' keys on the keyboard I used are adjacent
RW> to each other and 'accidentally hitting the key left (or right) of the key which
RW> was supposed to be used' (or above or below) certainly qualifies as
RW> 'simple typing error'.
OK, let's say it differently: there is no way to catch those errors
because they look exactly like normal code. The topic are errors you
can catch with Perl warnings, such as misspelled hash keys, and how they
justify leaving warnings on.
>> Then again, this is not a discussion.
RW> It is a type of discussion where one party (you) refuses to argue
RW> about the supposed topic but rather tries to score by supposedly
RW> witty remarks about the other party.
That's exactly the kind of discussion this is. Are we having it?
RW> NB: I'm genuinely interested in something useful 'Perl runtime
RW> warnings' provide. But I've already ruled out 'Oh my GAWD it is
RW> UNDEF !!!1!!!'. That's not useful to me. YMMV.
>>
>> I don't think you're genuinely interested in anything but your own ideas.
RW> What you think about me is somewhat off topic in a Perl newsgroup,
RW> don't you think so?
I'm obviously replying to your Perl-related comment, so I'm talking
about Perl and not general knowledge. You may well be genuinely
interested in Armenian dress codes and I am not talking about that.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:16:30 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <8739izqk69.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:32:38 +0100 Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
> RW> The point is that perl doesn't detect what you have defined as
> RW> 'typo' (namely, the string 'myenty' although there is really no
> RW> inherent reason why it shouldn't be just the other way round) but
> RW> that an hash item/ member whose values happens to be undef is being
> RW> used, this being something genuinely different.
>
> Sorry but your sentence doesn't make sense.
Perl does not 'detect' that you misspelled something, aka that 'a
typo' has happened, but that something whose value happens to be
'undef' is printed. That's nicely exemplified by turning your example
around:
[rw@sapphire]~ $perl -we '$h{entry} = 1; undef($h{enty}); print defined($h{entry});'
1
(Assuming that the intent was to undef $h{entry}).
Of course, while printing an empty string MUST be an error, trying to
undefined something that wasn't defined to begin with is certainly
correct code ...
[...]
> Let's assume I speak English and thus "myentry" is the right one instead
> of "myenty".
Another 'speaker of English' whose code I encountered in the past had
the habit of calling the index variable used to access elements in the
RX ring of an ethernet driver 'index' and the index variable used for
the TX ring 'outdex' (ie, 'English' ne 'Perl', so, assumptions like
the one implicit in your statement are not necessarily correct).
> RW> $c = $a - $b # should have been +
> RW> $c = $a - $b # should have been $b - $a
> RW> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>>> Those are not typos.
>
> RW> I would agree with this statement insofar it refers to the second
> RW> example but the '-' and '+' keys on the keyboard I used are adjacent
> RW> to each other and 'accidentally hitting the key left (or right) of the key which
> RW> was supposed to be used' (or above or below) certainly qualifies as
> RW> 'simple typing error'.
>
> OK, let's say it differently: there is no way to catch those errors
> because they look exactly like normal code. The topic are errors you
> can catch with Perl warnings, such as misspelled hash keys,
$h{enty} looks 'exactly like normal code' which is why Perl cannot
detect, as per example above.
[...]
> RW> NB: I'm genuinely interested in something useful 'Perl runtime
> RW> warnings' provide. But I've already ruled out 'Oh my GAWD it is
> RW> UNDEF !!!1!!!'. That's not useful to me. YMMV.
>>>
>>> I don't think you're genuinely interested in anything but your own ideas.
>
> RW> What you think about me is somewhat off topic in a Perl newsgroup,
> RW> don't you think so?
>
> I'm obviously replying to your Perl-related comment,
> so I'm talking about Perl and not general knowledge.
A splendid non-sequitur ...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:36:46 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <87liwrrv0x.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:16:30 +0100 Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
RW> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:32:38 +0100 Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
RW> The point is that perl doesn't detect what you have defined as
RW> 'typo' (namely, the string 'myenty' although there is really no
RW> inherent reason why it shouldn't be just the other way round) but
RW> that an hash item/ member whose values happens to be undef is being
RW> used, this being something genuinely different.
>>
>> Sorry but your sentence doesn't make sense.
RW> Perl does not 'detect' that you misspelled something, aka that 'a
RW> typo' has happened, but that something whose value happens to be
RW> 'undef' is printed.
I don't see how that makes it less useful to me. It's wrong to print an
undefined value, no matter how it got that way.
RW> That's nicely exemplified by turning your example around:
RW> [rw@sapphire]~ $perl -we '$h{entry} = 1; undef($h{enty}); print defined($h{entry});'
RW> 1
RW> (Assuming that the intent was to undef $h{entry}).
The intent was to show a situation where enabling warnings catches bugs.
Your counterargument is that "it doesn't catch all typos," apparently.
Well, yeah. It doesn't solve world hunger either.
This has helped me with real-world code. It apparently hurt you because
you had unmonitored servers and someone pushed crap code to production
that filled up the log files. To me that's an acceptable tradeoff, but
you are fixated on the role Perl warnings played in the process.
>> Let's assume I speak English and thus "myentry" is the right one instead
>> of "myenty".
RW> Another 'speaker of English' whose code I encountered in the past had
RW> the habit of calling the index variable used to access elements in the
RW> RX ring of an ethernet driver 'index' and the index variable used for
RW> the TX ring 'outdex' (ie, 'English' ne 'Perl', so, assumptions like
RW> the one implicit in your statement are not necessarily correct).
This is exactly the kind of discussion we should be having. Tell me
more about how you can't assume "myenty" is a misspelling of "myentry".
I assure you everyone reading this is nodding in agreement with you.
>> OK, let's say it differently: there is no way to catch those errors
>> because they look exactly like normal code. The topic are errors you
>> can catch with Perl warnings, such as misspelled hash keys,
RW> $h{enty} looks 'exactly like normal code' which is why Perl cannot
RW> detect, as per example above.
Yes. We catch bugs by the things they do sometimes, e.g. producing
undefined strings, rather than at the site of the bug. Using - instead
of + in an arithmetic operation has no consequences beyond producing a
numerically valid (but logically wrong) result. Catching it requires
different kinds of validation: unit tests, regression tests, etc.
RW> A splendid non-sequitur ...
Obviously you're genuinely interested in those.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:59:32 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: [RegEx] Optional parameter
Message-Id: <87tybfp0u3.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 17:16:30 +0100 Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
> RW> Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
>>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:32:38 +0100 Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
> RW> The point is that perl doesn't detect what you have defined as
> RW> 'typo' (namely, the string 'myenty' although there is really no
> RW> inherent reason why it shouldn't be just the other way round) but
> RW> that an hash item/ member whose values happens to be undef is being
> RW> used, this being something genuinely different.
>>>
>>> Sorry but your sentence doesn't make sense.
>
> RW> Perl does not 'detect' that you misspelled something, aka that 'a
> RW> typo' has happened, but that something whose value happens to be
> RW> 'undef' is printed.
>
> I don't see how that makes it less useful to me. It's wrong to print an
> undefined value, no matter how it got that way.
Printing an 'undefined' value is a well-defined operation in Perl: It
is semantically equivalent to 'printing an empty string'.
[...]
> This has helped me with real-world code. It apparently hurt you because
> you had unmonitored servers and someone pushed crap code to production
> that filled up the log files.
A contractor which happened to work on some project related to some
part of my work filled those 'log files' on a development-only
computer he was using by enabling warnings, as per 'do that or you
we will make you regret it' recommendation, but without ever looking
at those warnings. This is identical to the content of my first
posting on this, and I remember that I corrected this wrong assertion at least
two times already, meaning, there is little reason to assume that your
re-publishment is motivated by anything but intentional malice on your
part. Consequently, I claim that whatever other assertions you make in
public, such as 'this has helped me with real-world code', are to be
distrusted on the grounds that you demonstrably don't care for the
truth insofar it happens to get in your way.
NB: This is actually one of those rare examples of a valid ad hominem
argument and certainly a sufficient reason to not waste any time on
discussing anything with you.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:48:41 -0700
From: "ela" <ela@yantai.org>
Subject: Module to check overlap?
Message-Id: <iu1tab$9r3$1@ijustice.itsc.cuhk.edu.hk>
This post mentions something that looks to be working on range overlap
detection but is not exactly the same as what I'm looking for.
http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=841368
Has perl modules to specifically handle the problem like:
range set A: 1-1 7-13 18-300 500-999
range set B: 1-100 139-600 1000-1200
so for A
1-1 fully covered
7-13 fully covered
18-300 18-100 covered by 1-100, 101-138 not covered, 139-300
covered by 139-600
500-999 not covered.
Since the amount is huge, I wonder at least there exist any good data
structure to work with (hash etc. helps little here...)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 08:12:20 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: Module to check overlap?
Message-Id: <871uyjv0ej.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 20:48:41 -0700 "ela" <ela@yantai.org> wrote:
e> This post mentions something that looks to be working on range overlap
e> detection but is not exactly the same as what I'm looking for.
e> http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=841368
e> Has perl modules to specifically handle the problem like:
e> range set A: 1-1 7-13 18-300 500-999
e> range set B: 1-100 139-600 1000-1200
e> so for A
e> 1-1 fully covered
e> 7-13 fully covered
e> 18-300 18-100 covered by 1-100, 101-138 not covered, 139-300
e> covered by 139-600
e> 500-999 not covered.
e> Since the amount is huge, I wonder at least there exist any good data
e> structure to work with (hash etc. helps little here...)
You can try inversion lists, which are very good for long runs of data.
Your set B would become (1 101 139 601 1000 1201) and you can easily
find the overlap of two such lists. Check out
http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=908453 for more.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 07:34:33 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: Perl definition of newline?
Message-Id: <87iprvv25i.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:08:20 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
UG> perldoc.perl.org has a search engine. it also has been upgraded to be
UG> somewhat smarter too.
...
UG> the perldoc.perl.org search engine needs to be promoted more.
I don't think a web resource should be the answer to searching local
documentation. IMHO perldoc needs a global search facility since it
knows where everything is.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:30:22 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: Perl definition of newline?
Message-Id: <87wrgbp4yp.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
TZ> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:08:20 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
UG> perldoc.perl.org has a search engine. it also has been upgraded to be
UG> somewhat smarter too.
TZ> ...
UG> the perldoc.perl.org search engine needs to be promoted more.
TZ> I don't think a web resource should be the answer to searching local
TZ> documentation. IMHO perldoc needs a global search facility since it
TZ> knows where everything is.
i agree to that need but indexing local text isn't trivial. there are
plenty of such animals out there but which should perl use and ship
with? most are in c or other langs and that means more issues. i don't
use the web site as i usually know which doc has what i am looking
for. but for many perldoc.perl.org is very accessible and useful. it
should always be mentioned when how best to search the docs is asked.
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- uri AT perlhunter DOT com --- http://www.perlhunter.com --
------------ Perl Developer Recruiting and Placement Services -------------
----- Perl Code Review, Architecture, Development, Training, Support -------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:02:31 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: Perl definition of newline?
Message-Id: <87r56jrwm0.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:30:22 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
TZ> On Thu, 23 Jun 2011 17:08:20 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
UG> perldoc.perl.org has a search engine. it also has been upgraded to be
UG> somewhat smarter too.
TZ> ...
UG> the perldoc.perl.org search engine needs to be promoted more.
TZ> I don't think a web resource should be the answer to searching local
TZ> documentation. IMHO perldoc needs a global search facility since it
TZ> knows where everything is.
UG> i agree to that need but indexing local text isn't trivial. there are
UG> plenty of such animals out there but which should perl use and ship
UG> with? most are in c or other langs and that means more issues.
Seriously? grep -l -i isn't good enough? No need to index, just search
the damn things. They are tiny documents.
UG> i don't use the web site as i usually know which doc has what i am
UG> looking for. but for many perldoc.perl.org is very accessible and
UG> useful. it should always be mentioned when how best to search the
UG> docs is asked.
I agree with you, but it's not the best way to search *local docs* :)
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:27:26 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: Perl definition of newline?
Message-Id: <87liwrp2bl.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
TZ> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:30:22 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
UG> i agree to that need but indexing local text isn't trivial. there are
UG> plenty of such animals out there but which should perl use and ship
UG> with? most are in c or other langs and that means more issues.
TZ> Seriously? grep -l -i isn't good enough? No need to index, just search
TZ> the damn things. They are tiny documents.
grep is fine as tad always promotes it. it would be better if perldoc
had that builtin (and easy to do). whether you want just filenames or
sections which have hits is a good design question.
UG> i don't use the web site as i usually know which doc has what i am
UG> looking for. but for many perldoc.perl.org is very accessible and
UG> useful. it should always be mentioned when how best to search the
UG> docs is asked.
TZ> I agree with you, but it's not the best way to search *local docs* :)
local to this planet? :)
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- uri AT perlhunter DOT com --- http://www.perlhunter.com --
------------ Perl Developer Recruiting and Placement Services -------------
----- Perl Code Review, Architecture, Development, Training, Support -------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 12:40:29 -0500
From: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Subject: Re: Perl definition of newline?
Message-Id: <87hb7fruuq.fsf@lifelogs.com>
On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:27:26 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
TZ> Seriously? grep -l -i isn't good enough? No need to index, just search
TZ> the damn things. They are tiny documents.
UG> grep is fine as tad always promotes it. it would be better if perldoc
UG> had that builtin (and easy to do). whether you want just filenames or
UG> sections which have hits is a good design question.
Right. If people do the grepping manually already, chances are it's
useful. Just show the filenames, no need to overengineer it.
UG> i don't use the web site as i usually know which doc has what i am
UG> looking for. but for many perldoc.perl.org is very accessible and
UG> useful. it should always be mentioned when how best to search the
UG> docs is asked.
TZ> I agree with you, but it's not the best way to search *local docs* :)
UG> local to this planet? :)
Er, local to this machine. I am firewalled off from the web a lot of
the time, so this is not fanciful thinking but a real need.
Ted
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:47:03 -0400
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: Perl definition of newline?
Message-Id: <874o3fp1ew.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
TZ> On Fri, 24 Jun 2011 13:27:26 -0400 "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> "TZ" == Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com> writes:
TZ> Seriously? grep -l -i isn't good enough? No need to index, just search
TZ> the damn things. They are tiny documents.
UG> grep is fine as tad always promotes it. it would be better if perldoc
UG> had that builtin (and easy to do). whether you want just filenames or
UG> sections which have hits is a good design question.
TZ> Right. If people do the grepping manually already, chances are it's
TZ> useful. Just show the filenames, no need to overengineer it.
very few seem to do that. and newbies don't at all either due to
winblows, or not knowing about pod and grep. perldoc should have a grep
-l builtin. it shouldn't be too hard to do.
TZ> I agree with you, but it's not the best way to search *local docs* :)
UG> local to this planet? :)
TZ> Er, local to this machine. I am firewalled off from the web a lot of
TZ> the time, so this is not fanciful thinking but a real need.
well, you know how to do it. most newbies aren't firewalled away so
perldoc.perl.org is a good answer for them. i just drafted a new doc for
newbies which will eventually be on learn.perl.org (maybe p5p will use
it. fat chance) called perlmetadoc. it is all about how to use the perl
docs, etc. it covers perldoc.perl.org for the several benefits it gives
to newbies. i rarely use it myself but then, i am not common either. :)
uri
--
Uri Guttman -- uri AT perlhunter DOT com --- http://www.perlhunter.com --
------------ Perl Developer Recruiting and Placement Services -------------
----- Perl Code Review, Architecture, Development, Training, Support -------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2011 18:17:14 +0100
From: Rainer Weikusat <rweikusat@mssgmbh.com>
Subject: Re: upload file rom solaris to debian using perl base install
Message-Id: <87y60rp2sl.fsf@sapphire.mobileactivedefense.com>
gavino <gavcomedy@gmail.com> writes:
> On Jun 20, 10:24 am, Rainer Weikusat <rweiku...@mssgmbh.com> wrote:
>> gavino <gavcom...@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>> [...]
>>
>> > it seems u need a cgi on box 2 to accept some kinda wget uplaod from
>> > box1
[...]
> but this is firewall environment
> only port 80 open
> and webserver waiting on port 80
>
> What I need is post perl script and a perl cgi to recieve the post
> into a file.
>
> anyone know that?
Provided that you don't mind that this is a horrendously inefficient
way to solve this problem, that the solution is somewhat fragile
(especially, the name resolution part) and that it is probably not
really standards-compliant[*], you can use the script included below to
post data read from stdin to a URL given as command-line argument as
single CGI-parameter named 'data':
[*] ... and that I don't use 'object-oriented I/O' ...
------------------
#!/usr/bin/perl
# post a file to a CGI script
#
#
use Socket;
use constant PORT => 80;
{
my ($host, $url, $addr, $data, $sk, $rc);
local $/;
$url = $ARGV[0];
$url || die("Usage: post-file <url>");
$data = <STDIN>;
$data =~ s/([^0-9A-Za-z])/sprintf('%%%02x', ord($1))/ge;
$url =~ /^(?:http:\/\/)?([^\/]+)/ and $host = $1;
$host || die("could not extract hostname from '$url'");
$addr = gethostbyname($host);
$addr || die("Could not resolve $host: $?");
$rc = socket($sk, AF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, 0);
$rc || die("socket: $!");
$rc = connect($sk, pack_sockaddr_in(PORT, $addr));
$rc || die("connect: $!");
select($sk);
$| = 1;
printf("POST %s HTTP/1.1\x0d\x0a".
"Host: %s\x0d\x0a" .
"Content-Type: application/x-www-form-urlencoded\x0d\x0a".
"Content-Length: %u\x0d\x0a".
"\x0d\x0a".
"data=%s", $url, $host, length($data) + 5, $data);
shutdown($sk, 1);
select(STDOUT);
print($data) while ($data = <$sk>);
}
------------------------------
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 3424
***************************************
