[31490] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 2749 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Jan 3 03:09:43 2010
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 00:09:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 3 Jan 2010 Volume: 11 Number: 2749
Today's topics:
Re: FAQ 6.10 What is "/o" really for? sln@netherlands.com
Re: How to put '#!/usr/bin/env perl -w' at the beginnin <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: How to put '#!/usr/bin/env perl -w' at the beginnin <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: How to put '#!/usr/bin/env perl -w' at the beginnin <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
I need to make some cash here sln@netherlands.com
Re: I need to make some cash here <uri@StemSystems.com>
Re: I need to make some cash here sln@netherlands.com
Re: My grandmother installs modules better than yours <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Re: WWW::Scripter or Javascript and perl <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: WWW::Scripter or Javascript and perl <nathanabu@gmail.com>
Re: WWW::Scripter or Javascript and perl <nathanabu@gmail.com>
Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Teach Ourself Programing In Ten Y <Dr.Alain.Picard@gmail.com>
Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Teach Ourself Programing In Ten Y <john@castleamber.com>
Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Teach Ourself Programing In Ten Y <sysadmin@example.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:06:21 -0800
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: FAQ 6.10 What is "/o" really for?
Message-Id: <mnnvj5hl1uc5ctk2jsn3shisfsb2gh377j@4ax.com>
On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 13:38:19 -0800, Wanna-Be Sys Admin <sysadmin@example.com> wrote:
>sln@netherlands.com wrote:
>
>> I am the greatest regex artist on the planet !!!!!
>>
>> -sln
[snip/]
>PSS: I'd put you against Tad, Randal, Exner, Rudd, Morrow, Uri,
>Charlton, Gibson, DeFaria, myself, and on and on and on, any day.
DeFaria ? Now, that hurts !
-sln
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:39:40 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: How to put '#!/usr/bin/env perl -w' at the beginning of a perl script?
Message-Id: <slrnhjvtas.8em.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
On 2009-12-30, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>> > [2] I remember the bad old days of C programming where you could choose
>> > between getting lots of warnings from system header files and turning
>> > off many useful warnings.
>>
>> This is not my experience with using -w. At least not for a decade.
>
> This will be because most modules 'use warnings', and 'no warnings'
> where they need to, which overrides -w.
I call this BS:
.cpan\build>pfind . "/\.pm$/" "=~ /\b use \s+ warnings \b/x" du
9192861 bytes in 932 files, 0 directories
.cpan\build>pfind . "/\.pm$/" du
89051284 bytes in 4312 files, 0 directories
The numbers are duplicated due to ./blib/*, but it does not change
the ratio (which is 10% in metric of byte-of-code ;-).
Yours,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:46:34 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: How to put '#!/usr/bin/env perl -w' at the beginning of a perl script?
Message-Id: <slrnhjvtnq.8em.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
On 2009-12-31, Peter J. Holzer <hjp-usenet2@hjp.at> wrote:
>>>> The right solution is to add the "nonstandard" location to $PATH, so
>>>> that env can find perl there.
>>> Using /usr/bin/env and relying on the PATH is not a good idea:
>>>
>>> * Perl scripts are often called with a minimal PATH (cron jobs, CGI
>>> scripts, etc.). Then the perl executable won't be found.
>>> * The sysadmin may install a new perl executable in a directory which
>>> appears earlier in the path - then the wrong executable will be
>>> found.
>>> * In some situations manipulation of the path may pose a security risk.
>>>
>>> In short, I think a script should be as self-contained as possible.
>>> Relying on the PATH often leads to trouble and can easily be avoided.
>> Cannot agree here. Your arguments show that "it is has possible
>> drawbacks", not that it "is not a good idea".
> In 20 years of system administration I have seen quite a lot of scripts
> break because they had avoidable dependencies on the environment.
> Sometimes in catastrophic ways.
Did I argue with this? All I did was adding that
in my 20 year observing people (most with top-level minds) using
computers, I saw much more cases when the script "won't run", and a
person in question would have no clue how to fix it.
>> There are VERY STRONG positive side to having a script in a form which
>> does not require you to explain to your grandmother how to exit vi... :-( :-)
> OTOH this was never a problem.
> My grandmother never used a computer in her live. My parents are
> unlikely to ever use a script which they haven't installed with the
> package manager.
But think about it the other way: if installing scripts were easier
than it is with hard-coded directories, maybe they would? 1/4 ;-)
> It is the responsibility of a
> software author to make their software robust, especially if it is
> intended to be used by users who don't know how to exit vi.
So they do it by using #!/bin/env perl (no smiley!). (E.g., this may be
more robust than having an install script to delete itself on completion...)
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:49:01 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: How to put '#!/usr/bin/env perl -w' at the beginning of a perl script?
Message-Id: <slrnhjvtsd.8em.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
On 2010-01-01, Wanna-Be Sys Admin <sysadmin@example.com> wrote:
>>> The Op's first post shows they have shell access, and I find that
>>> assumption curious, as I've never seen a system prevent a user from
>>> creating symbolic links
>> Every system you've seen gives write permission
>> on /usr/bin to ordinary users?
> Nope. I never said this was for /usr/bin. The symlink would (or
> should) be from their user's account path, and point that to wherever,
> if they were going to use a symlink. This would allow them to run it
> on whatever system, and just have to point the one symlink to the
> system's Perl install.
Won't work. Here, /home directories migrate between different mount
points...
Hope this helps,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 23:13:48 -0800
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: I need to make some cash here
Message-Id: <spg0k5p8e9hrqutb3j964ilusosjf4s7ji@4ax.com>
My unemployment is running out here in California.
I can do anything, give me a job.
-sln
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:31:50 -0500
From: "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com>
Subject: Re: I need to make some cash here
Message-Id: <87hbr33aqh.fsf@quad.sysarch.com>
>>>>> "s" == sln <sln@netherlands.com> writes:
s> My unemployment is running out here in California.
s> I can do anything, give me a job.
get some coding skills and then apply to macdonald's as a fry cook.
uri
--
Uri Guttman ------ uri@stemsystems.com -------- http://www.sysarch.com --
----- Perl Code Review , Architecture, Development, Training, Support ------
--------- Gourmet Hot Cocoa Mix ---- http://bestfriendscocoa.com ---------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 00:08:56 -0800
From: sln@netherlands.com
Subject: Re: I need to make some cash here
Message-Id: <c2k0k5l8bckuiks887jeiqupslbihthh2h@4ax.com>
On Sun, 03 Jan 2010 02:31:50 -0500, "Uri Guttman" <uri@StemSystems.com> wrote:
>>>>>> "s" == sln <sln@netherlands.com> writes:
>
> s> My unemployment is running out here in California.
> s> I can do anything, give me a job.
>
>get some coding skills and then apply to macdonald's as a fry cook.
>
>uri
Why don't you suck my dick asshole, i fucked your wife last night ..
She's as good as you at Perl. LMAO
-sln
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Jan 2010 01:34:35 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: My grandmother installs modules better than yours
Message-Id: <slrnhjvt1b.8em.nospam-abuse@powdermilk.math.berkeley.edu>
On 2009-12-30, Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
>> ??? Any module caring about backward compatibility would not `use warnings'.
>
> I think you've lost that one. 5.005 is dead dead dead, as it should be.
> Many (most?) people already consider 5.6 to be unsupportable.
I'm still getting (though, an extremely sparse) trickle of bug reports
for 5.005...
>> > [1] Well, *I* can change it because I'm sysadmin on most of the systems
>> > where my code runs. But that's far from universal.
>> But PERLLIB *is* universal.
> But not easy to use correctly.
True. For me, it is very sad that 15 years after the architecture of
modules was born, there is still no framework to make it *easy*. IMO,
the following components should be present:
a) A writer of module should be able to replace the file INSTALL by
a link to a piece of "standard documentation" which describes
WELL the simplest ramifications of the process of an install of a
distribution (say, for distributions based on Makefile.PL).
There should be at least two entry points: one for distributions
with scripts, one for those without scripts. But they should
cover ALL aspects: root access or not, setting up PATH and
PERLLIB on tcsh/Bourne/Windows/Mac (maybe even setting up DLL
path for distributions needing external libraries), setting up
CPAN.pm configuration.
b) But this is not enough. Some grandmothers just can't read even
well written technical documents of non-0 level of complexity.
For these situations, there should be an automatic tool (as in
cpan -autosetup
) which RECOGNIZES itself all the situations mentioned in "a",
and makes the needed 4-5 edits in user configuration itself. The
user feedup should be minimal:
To auto-setup the module installation for your personal access:
I will change this line to that your file FOO (backup of the
file will be saved in BAR). Etc etc Etc
Press Y if you agree to these changes. Press any other key
to stop auto-setup without any change to your current configuration.
or it should bulk out when e.g., the syntax of a line in .tcshrc
which sets PATH is too complicated to parse.
> More importantly, messing around with third-party modules is a bad idea
> unless you're planning to fork the distribution, which is a fairly major
> step. None of the other modules you have installed will have been tested
> against your patched version, and as soon as you upgrade you'll either
> lose your changes or have a tricky merge on your hands.
I do not buy this (at least not at the list price ;-). When you
install a new version of a module, do you check that this update did
not break all the other installed modules? Until we do this, having a
local install is not THAT MUCH worse.
(But I know what you mean here too. My local CPAN.pm on one system
got obsoleted even with snail-speed of updates of Solaris, and I
needed some time to debug this... Can one design simple-to-use
tools to avoid this? Like part of PERL5LIB marked as
MUST_NOT_CONTAIN_OLDER_VERSION_THAN_REST_OF_PERL5LIB
)
Yours,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 09:29:19 -0600
From: Tad McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: WWW::Scripter or Javascript and perl
Message-Id: <slrnhjupca.mq9.tadmc@tadbox.sbcglobal.net>
Nathan <nathanabu@gmail.com> wrote:
> I've downloaded wsp.pl,
> So I fired up my Firefox browser, navigated to the proxy settings, but
> I couldn't figure out what to fill in there to make it work
>
> I tried: HTTP PROXY: localhost PORT: 5364
That should do it.
> it didnt work
Uh, what does "didn't work" mean when you say it?
You could surf but traffic was not logged?
You could not surf?
Something else?
Having one or more symptoms can go a long way toward getting
a useful diagnosis...
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 08:09:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathanabu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: WWW::Scripter or Javascript and perl
Message-Id: <0d9fac7a-d07e-4b6b-8b7d-1c263e003174@f5g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>
On Jan 2, 5:29=A0pm, Tad McClellan <ta...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> Nathan <nathan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've downloaded wsp.pl,
> > So I fired up my Firefox browser, navigated to the proxy settings, but
> > I couldn't figure out what to fill in there to make it work
>
> > I tried: HTTP PROXY: localhost PORT: 5364
>
> That should do it.
>
> > it didnt work
>
> Uh, what does "didn't work" mean when you say it?
>
> You could surf but traffic was not logged?
>
> You could not surf?
>
> Something else?
>
> Having one or more symptoms can go a long way toward getting
> a useful diagnosis...
>
> --
> Tad McClellan
> email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
I couldn't surf the web, this is exactly how I configured it:
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/5518/screenshotmp.png
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Jan 2010 09:57:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Nathan <nathanabu@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: WWW::Scripter or Javascript and perl
Message-Id: <2034ff51-6a70-4aaa-b8cd-058a77dc1f41@z41g2000yqz.googlegroups.com>
On Jan 2, 5:29=A0pm, Tad McClellan <ta...@seesig.invalid> wrote:
> Nathan <nathan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've downloaded wsp.pl,
> > So I fired up my Firefox browser, navigated to the proxy settings, but
> > I couldn't figure out what to fill in there to make it work
>
> > I tried: HTTP PROXY: localhost PORT: 5364
>
> That should do it.
>
> > it didnt work
>
> Uh, what does "didn't work" mean when you say it?
>
> You could surf but traffic was not logged?
>
> You could not surf?
>
> Something else?
>
> Having one or more symptoms can go a long way toward getting
> a useful diagnosis...
>
> --
> Tad McClellan
> email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.liamg\100cm.j.dat/"
I found out that wsp.pl actually works, but it doesnt work on that
given site because of security...it doesnt dump anything when I browse
that site, but other sites works fine.
so, I believe there is another way to see the the JS is issuing when I
click on that 'Submit' button, and then I can do the same with a POST
request,isnt it??
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Jan 2010 08:48:57 +1100
From: Alain Picard <Dr.Alain.Picard@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Teach Ourself Programing In Ten Years?
Message-Id: <87my0w89fa.fsf@gmail.com>
[Aplogies about the wild cross-post follow-up --- I guess the topic really
is relevant to most programming communities.]
Xah Lee <xahlee@gmail.com> writes:
> To see this in a different context, suppose you need to pass a
> important Math XYZ exam or review in your career or get a certificate,
> but you don't remember your Math XYZ.
There's a difference between cramming to remember XYZ, and never
having understood (or even been exposed to!) XYZ previously. The
former is reasonable; the latter bound to fail.
> [SNIP] In my opinion, a solution to this is by installing
> the concept of responsible licenses. Please see this essay Responsible
> Software Licensing
IOW, you think IT will have to become like engineering and "grow up".
I.e. when your manager says "do XYZ in 7 days", you just laugh at
them, and your risk of being fired are minimal, because all other
certified engineers who could replace you also will laugh at him
because your duty of care to your profession and certification is
greater than the one you owe your bozo manager.
I'm, personally, not holding my breath.
If you want to change the world, you start by changing yourself.
Cheers,
--ap
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:15:52 -0600
From: John Bokma <john@castleamber.com>
Subject: Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Teach Ourself Programing In Ten Years?
Message-Id: <87y6kgrw4n.fsf@castleamber.com>
Alain Picard <Dr.Alain.Picard@gmail.com> writes:
> If you want to change the world, you start by changing yourself.
Like for starters setting a follow-up to header, especially if you spam
4 groups. But Xah is Xah.
--
John Bokma
Read my blog: http://johnbokma.com/
Hire me (Perl/Python): http://castleamber.com/
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 02 Jan 2010 16:01:50 -0800
From: Wanna-Be Sys Admin <sysadmin@example.com>
Subject: Re: Xah's Edu Corner: Teach Ourself Programing In Ten Years?
Message-Id: <P7R%m.324$Kq7.192@newsfe04.iad>
Alain Picard wrote:
> [Aplogies about the wild cross-post follow-up --- I guess the topic
> [really
> is relevant to most programming communities.]
No, it's not relevant. Xah Lee is a self spammer, in that he spams
about himself, tries to get people hyped up about him and thinks he's
impressing people (he's not). He continually cross posts to the
language groups he thinks he knows about (often to Perl, where there's
no mention of Perl, other than he's used it once or so). He knows very
little about any of these languages, but likes to talk a whole lot, as
in talking up about himself and how he thinks himself a genius. If you
could please not cross post his self-spamming replies to the Python and
Perl groups, at least, I'd appreciate it. Most people know about him
and have filtered his posts by now. Thanks.
--
Not really a wanna-be, but I don't know everything.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 2749
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