[30573] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1816 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sun Aug 24 03:09:42 2008
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:09:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sun, 24 Aug 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1816
Today's topics:
Re: better way to fetch and install packages than just <whynot@pozharski.name>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Re: hang when I run perl -MCPAN -e 'install Net::SSH::P cantumike@gmail.com
Re: hang when I run perl -MCPAN -e 'install Net::SSH::P <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: Help: Debug perl codes <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: Help: Debug perl codes <nospam@somewhere.com>
Re: Help: Debug perl codes <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Re: idea: insertion operator <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
killing orphan process in Windows? <woland99@gmail.com>
new CPAN modules on Sun Aug 24 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: Programming Languages Decisions <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Should the element contains in an array/hash be sca <mjcarman@mchsi.com>
Re: Should the element contains in an array/hash be sca <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Re: Should the element contains in an array/hash be sca <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Re: This is very OT, and its just a request. It has to <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Re: Unable to debug Perl script <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:47:25 +0300
From: Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name>
Subject: Re: better way to fetch and install packages than just a bunch of system ?calls?
Message-Id: <ti26o5xg23.ln2@carpet.zombinet>
Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:53:41 +0300, Eric Pozharski wrote:
>> Ed <edwardjameshartnett@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> system("gunzip -f zlib-${zlib_version}.tar.gz"); system("tar
>>> xf zlib-${zlib_version}.tar");
>>
>> If my reading of F<changelog> of B<tar> is correct, than I'd guess
>> that B<tar> knows about B<gzip> sometime about Sep 2004. So C<tar
>> -xzf whatever.tgz> would do the same.
>>
>> And why you copy archives? B<tar> will happily extract (if that's
>> possible, of course) from anywhere into I<cwd>.
> Not all tars are GNU tars.
I suppose it's about C<tar -z>, right? You won.
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:28:57 -0400
From: John W Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <48b0d579$0$29513$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Adam Worrall wrote:
> It's nothing short of bonified [sic] hypocrisy.
"Ganz ohne Weiber geht die Chose nicht...."
--
John W. Kennedy
"Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the
throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts"
-- J. Michael Straczynski. "Babylon 5", "Ceremonies of Light and Dark"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:11:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: cantumike@gmail.com
Subject: Re: hang when I run perl -MCPAN -e 'install Net::SSH::Perl'
Message-Id: <85682552-dac6-41fe-84ee-bad13732331f@a3g2000prm.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 21, 3:59=A0pm, Stephane Charette <stephanechare...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I'm trying to getNet::SSH::Perlinstalled. =A0I did install
> Math::BigInt::GMP, Math::GMP, Math::Pari, and various other modules
> without problem.
>
> But when Irun"perl-MCPAN -e 'installNet::SSH::Perl'" the whole
> thing hangs at this point:
>
> -----------------
> Manifying blib/man3/Net::SSH::Perl::Cipher::DES.3pm
> Manifying blib/man3/Net::SSH::Perl::Packet.3pm
> Manifying blib/man3/Net::SSH::Perl::Key::RSA.3pm
> =A0 /usr/bin/make =A0-- OK
> Running make test
> PERL_DL_NONLAZY=3D1 /usr/bin/perl"-MExtUtils::Command::MM" "-e"
> "test_harness(0, 'blib/lib', 'blib/arch')" t/*.t
> t/01-
> compile.....ok
> t/02-
> buffer......ok
> t/03-packet......ok 1/10
> -----------------
>
> At this point it consumes none of the CPU, but never completes. =A0CTRL
> +C breaks out and aborts the installation. =A0I see plenty of posts
> about this when searching with Google, but no answer. =A0Can anyone
> help?
>
> I'm using Ubuntu 8.04-32bit i686 arch,perl5.8.8 that ships with
> Ubuntu.
>
> St=E9phane
I've had the exact same experience with FreeBSD 7.0. Is there a
solution?
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:21:41 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: hang when I run perl -MCPAN -e 'install Net::SSH::Perl'
Message-Id: <5o77o5-ern.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth Stephane Charette <stephanecharette@gmail.com>:
> I'm trying to get Net::SSH::Perl installed. I did install
> Math::BigInt::GMP, Math::GMP, Math::Pari, and various other modules
> without problem.
>
> But when I run "perl -MCPAN -e 'install Net::SSH::Perl'" the whole
> thing hangs at this point:
>
> t/03-packet......ok 1/10
>
> At this point it consumes none of the CPU, but never completes. CTRL
> +C breaks out and aborts the installation. I see plenty of posts
> about this when searching with Google, but no answer. Can anyone
> help?
>
> I'm using Ubuntu 8.04-32bit i686 arch, perl 5.8.8 that ships with
> Ubuntu.
I get the same result here. After a little investigation, it appears to
be a bug in the test suite, but I don't really understand it. What seems
to be happening is
The test replaces the internal socket handle with a tied FH, so it
can test what gets sent and received.
This tied filehandle claims to have a fileno of 255 (but doesn't, of
course).
This filehandle is passed to an IO::Select instance, which tries to
select on fd 255.
This fd isn't open, so the select hangs.
I wonder if the behaviour of select(2) when passed a bitmap not
containing any open filehandles has changed? In any case, I would say
it's clearly a bug: report it to the author, if it hasn't been already.
Ben
--
We do not stop playing because we grow old;
we grow old because we stop playing.
ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 08:48:50 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: Help: Debug perl codes
Message-Id: <slrngb05a2.e4n.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Michael Carman <mjcarman@mchsi.com> wrote:
> Thrill5 wrote:
>> How does he know if the OP spent 2 hours researching or spent none?
>
> Unless the OP tells us outright he can't. He can only make an educated
> guess. The less information the OP provides the more likely she is to be
> judged as having *not* tried to help herself first.
This OP has been here for quite some time, there is a history
of previous behavior here.
I clearly knee-jerked that she was asking a FAQ when she wasn't, but
that was because she has trained me to expect that in her posts.
I was feeling bad about the knee jerking at first, maybe she asked
for fish previously only because she didn't know how to fish, and
that it was no longer a problem...
... until she posted a FAQ contemporary with this very thread:
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.perl.misc/msg/265fc3649125bdab
>> Why does it that matter anyway?
>
> It matters because it's human nature to want to help people who deserve
> it and to not want to be taken advantage of by people who don't.
I expect that the "poster of the trollish persuasion" knee-jerked
on my motivation for the 1st part of my followup because it is not
a regular participant here, and so did not know what to expect
from this OP.
The 1st part of my followup was clearly an aside anyway (that's
why it was in [square brackets]).
My reason for following up was actually the 2nd part.
Past behavior indicated that she was missing out on several key
ways of fishing for help with Perl.
Current behavior indicated that she was missing out on several key
ways of fishing for help with Perl, since she had missed out on
"perldoc -q".
And even future behavior (after my followup in this thread)
indicated that she was missing out on several key
ways of fishing for help with Perl.
So my purpose was to point out (yet again) how to pick up on
several key ways of fishing for help with Perl.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:28:43 -0400
From: "Thrill5" <nospam@somewhere.com>
Subject: Re: Help: Debug perl codes
Message-Id: <fLidnUe3F7jBWi3VnZ2dnUVZ_gWdnZ2d@comcast.com>
"Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote in message
news:m1ej4j3vid.fsf@dot-app.org...
> "Thrill5" <nospam@somewhere.com> writes:
>
>> "Sherm Pendley" <spamtrap@dot-app.org> wrote in message
>> news:m17iab8clu.fsf@dot-app.org...
>>>
>>> Of course not. What I take objection to is the popular notion among
>>> whiners (including the one to whom the OP had responded) that such
>>> things are intentional attacks. The picture that these people paint,
>>> of being irrationally "attacked" by regulars who "hate newbies," is
>>> nothing but a ridiculous caricature.
>>
>> My "rant" was directed only to the bullies that like to ridicule
>> posters because *they think* someone asked a dumb question.
>
> Exactly my point. When regulars make mistakes, you describe them as
> "bullies" who "like to ridicule" people. You refuse to consider that
> it was an honest mistake brought about by misinterpreting the OP's
> question; instead, you whine and rant about a hidden agenda that
> exists only in your imagination.
>
This is not the first, second, third or even the tenth time I have seen this
type of bad behaviour. It doesn't matter who does it, *regulars* or
otherwise.
>> was a valid one and the reply *quote*
>> *end quote* offers no help to anyone.
>
> I'm not saying it did. What I find offensive is your claim that it was
> a deliberate attack by someone who's just being a bully.
>
Seems that you saw his reply as inappropriate behaviour as well. The word
*attack* is yours, not mine, so you must have seen it as bullying as well.
Thanks for making my point, while continuing to support this bad behaviour.
>> How does he know if the OP spent 2 hours
>> researching or spent none?
>
> Well, given that Tad's response was off the mark, it's pretty obvious
> that he *doesn't* know that 100%. Mistakes happen. *Your* mistake is
> assuming that his response was intentional bullying.
>
No mistake here. Is there any other kind of bullying other than
intentional? Even you admit it was an *attack* Posting a reply that can be
construed as an attack is bullying. The reply did not state that he didn't
understand the question, quite the opposite in fact.
>> Why does it that matter anyway?
>
> Speaking for myself, I believe that being able to navigate reference
> material is the single most useful skill that a programmer can have,
> in any language. Operating systems, languages, and toolkits come and
> go, far too quickly for anyone to do more than absorb general concepts
> and principles; that makes it critical for a programmer to be able to
> look up the relevant details on an as-needed basis.
>
> So, when I answer someone's question with a reference to the docs, I
> do so because I believe it's helpful on two levels. First, there's the
> short-term help of answering their immediate question, and second, I
> think it's helpful to encourage the long-term development of what I
> consider to be a critical skill.
>
> I think that most of the regulars are thinking along similar lines,
> and trying to offer what we think is the most helpful advice we can
> give. Sometimes we fail in the attempt, and our advice isn't as
> helpful as it could be; but that's just a failure in execution, not
> evidence of ill intent.
>
I agree 100% Pointing someone to correct documentation is better than
giving the answer sometimes. Give someone a fish, feed them a meal, teach
them fish, feed them for life. Again, the original reply offered no help
what so ever and was meant to deride and BULLY the OP.
> sherm--
>
> --
> My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
> Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 22:32:38 -0400
From: Sherm Pendley <spamtrap@dot-app.org>
Subject: Re: Help: Debug perl codes
Message-Id: <m1vdxrxhvd.fsf@dot-app.org>
"Thrill5" <nospam@somewhere.com> writes:
> Even you admit it was an *attack*
I've admitted no such thing. Learn to read.
*plonk*
sherm--
--
My blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com
Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 18:54:22 +0000 (UTC)
From: Ilya Zakharevich <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org>
Subject: Re: idea: insertion operator
Message-Id: <g8pmcu$q4b$1@agate.berkeley.edu>
[A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
<jidanni@jidanni.org>], who wrote in article <8763psvdqj.fsf@jidanni.org>:
> Gentlemen, ever wonder if there was an easier way to do
> s/(bla)(goo)/$1NORD$2/
> Well how about
> s/bla^goo/NORD/
> Yes, that's right, a new special operator (I'm overloading ^ here, but
> I'm sure you can choose a wiser one that will also work at the beginng
> of a line.) Anyway, this brilliant concept I hereby toss to you (and
> run away). Anyway, probably not worth implementing as the $1 stuff is
> more general.
IMO, the force-match-begin-here and force-match-end-here ARE crucial
for a good REx engine. They would make 90% of usabe of lookahead and
lookbehind unnecessary.
(In your case, begin- and end-match-positions coincide; they should
not in general. BTW - are there cases where putting end-match BEFORE
begin-match may have a reasonable semantic?)
Yours,
Ilya
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 20:41:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Woland99 <woland99@gmail.com>
Subject: killing orphan process in Windows?
Message-Id: <5bb1c2eb-80c0-4060-9aa7-eee994d77c89@l42g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>
Howdy - I have a Perl script that uses fairly standard Win32::OLE
calls to
read Excel spreadsheets and feed data into build process. Every now
and
then that script fails and leaves orphan Excel process. Then
subsequent
build fails and you need to manually connect to build machine and use
Task Manager to kill Excel process before restarting build.
Is there a way to safely clean after yourself if any of the Win32::OLE
calls
fails and to kill Excel process?
Or - as alternative - is there a way to kill any Excel orphans before
starting
to process spreadsheets?
Any pointers will be greatly appreciated.
JT
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 04:42:20 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Sun Aug 24 2008
Message-Id: <K6392K.1KAu@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Apache2-PPI-HTML-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Apache2-PPI-HTML-0.02/
Apache 2 interface to PPI::HTML
----
Archive-Zip-1.24
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Archive-Zip-1.24/
Provide an interface to ZIP archive files.
----
CPAN-Testers-ParseReport-0.0.5
http://search.cpan.org/~andk/CPAN-Testers-ParseReport-0.0.5/
parse reports to cpantesters.perl.org from various sources
----
Class-MOP-0.64_04
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Class-MOP-0.64_04/
A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5
----
DBIx-Class-RDBOHelpers-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/DBIx-Class-RDBOHelpers-0.01/
DBIC compat with Rose::DBx::Object::MoreHelpers
----
Data-Dump-1.11
http://search.cpan.org/~gaas/Data-Dump-1.11/
Pretty printing of data structures
----
Data-Transform-0.03_01
http://search.cpan.org/~martijn/Data-Transform-0.03_01/
base class for protocol abstractions
----
Devel-Size-0.70
http://search.cpan.org/~tels/Devel-Size-0.70/
Perl extension for finding the memory usage of Perl variables
----
File-UserConfig-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/File-UserConfig-0.06/
Get a user's existing config directory, or copy in defaults
----
HTML-MobileJp-Filter-0.01_02
http://search.cpan.org/~tomita/HTML-MobileJp-Filter-0.01_02/
Glue of modules for fighting with Japanese mobile web
----
JS-0.16
http://search.cpan.org/~ingy/JS-0.16/
JavaScript Modules on CPAN
----
JavaScript-1.11
http://search.cpan.org/~claesjac/JavaScript-1.11/
Perl extension for executing embedded JavaScript
----
LaTeX-Table-0.9.0
http://search.cpan.org/~limaone/LaTeX-Table-0.9.0/
Perl extension for the automatic generation of LaTeX tables.
----
Module-CGI-Install-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Module-CGI-Install-0.07/
Installer for CGI applications
----
Net-Appliance-Session-1.25
http://search.cpan.org/~oliver/Net-Appliance-Session-1.25/
Run command-line sessions to network appliances
----
Parse-QTEDI-0.13
http://search.cpan.org/~dongxu/Parse-QTEDI-0.13/
Parse QT/KDE preprocessed headers
----
Perl-MinimumVersion-1.18
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Perl-MinimumVersion-1.18/
Find a minimum required version of perl for Perl code
----
Regexp-Wildcards-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~vpit/Regexp-Wildcards-1.02/
Converts wildcard expressions to Perl regular expressions.
----
Rose-HTMLx-Form-Related-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/Rose-HTMLx-Form-Related-0.01/
RHTMLO forms, living together
----
Rose-HTMLx-Form-Related-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~karman/Rose-HTMLx-Form-Related-0.02/
RHTMLO forms, living together
----
Template-Plugin-Group-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Template-Plugin-Group-1.03/
Template plugin to group lists into simple subgroups
----
Template-Plugin-Tooltip-1.08
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Template-Plugin-Tooltip-1.08/
Template Toolkit plugin for HTML::Tooltip::JavaScript
----
Test-NeedsDisplay-1.04
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Test-NeedsDisplay-1.04/
Ensure that tests needing a display have one
----
Test-SubCalls-1.08
http://search.cpan.org/~adamk/Test-SubCalls-1.08/
Track the number of times subs are called
----
WWW-Form-1.18
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/WWW-Form-1.18/
Object-oriented module for HTML form input validation and display
----
WWW-Myspace-0.85
http://search.cpan.org/~stevenc/WWW-Myspace-0.85/
Access MySpace.com profile information from Perl
----
uny2k-19.108_0823
http://search.cpan.org/~mschwern/uny2k-19.108_0823/
Removes y2k fixes
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:51:54 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Programming Languages Decisions
Message-Id: <atidnY0cQLc5LS3VnZ2dnUVZ_oPinZ2d@earthlink.com>
<sln@netherlands.com> wrote in message
news:8n2pa4dumsm2oogahgqgc95jc66u3i64gq@4ax.com...
>
> Those thousands are your intellectual customers. When upgrades happen, all
> the way from the platform, up several steps, customers get irritated when
> things don't go right. Interrest quickly wane's.
>
As stated in an earlier post, this application is intended to provide
researchers with invaluable information regarding earthquakes and how they
might be forecast. If it is as successful as I believe it should be then
people around the world interested in this science will begin moving the
effort forward.
I believe that this actually happened after the technology was discussed at
a disaster mitigation conference in the People's Republic of China in
December of 2003. Researchers in that country started developing their own
applications. However I am guessing that they were unable to get any
funding for their work and it eventually came to a halt.
The situation is now different. This program is all people need to do some
pretty advanced research. They won't need support from a university or
government agency, just a moderately powerful computer. It runs a little
too slow for an older computer.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 03:46:59 GMT
From: Michael Carman <mjcarman@mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Should the element contains in an array/hash be scales?
Message-Id: <TQ4sk.311424$yE1.223755@attbi_s21>
Jking wrote:
> Should the element contains in an array/hash be a scale, so that I can only
> put references pointing to arrays/hashes in them?
Yes. Array elements and hash values must be a scalar (not "scale").
References are scalars, so they can be stored in an array or hash.
> In other words, is the assignment legal?
>
> @a=(0,1);
> %hi=( "hi"=>@a );
That depends on what you mean by "legal." The syntax itself is valid.
(You can initialize a hash with an array.) It probably doesn't do what
you want, though. To perl, this looks like
%h = (hi => 0, 1)
Hash initializations should have an even number of elements (i.e. pairs
of keys & values). If you run this with warnings enabled you'll get
Odd number of elements in hash assignment...
because perl sees the key 'hi' with a value of 0 and the key '1' with no
corresponding value. What you (presumably) want is this:
%h = (hi => \@a);
perldoc perlreftut for a crash course in using references.
-mjc
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 05:45:46 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Should the element contains in an array/hash be scales?
Message-Id: <qk57o5-72k.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth "Jking" <jiangjun_maillist@tom.com>:
>
> Should the element contains in an array/hash be a scale, so that I can only
> put references pointing to arrays/hashes in them?
I presume you mean 'scalar'? Yes, that is correct: arrays and hashes
only contain scalars, so multi-level structures have to be built using
(explicit) references, unlike some other languages where the references
are implicit.
> In other words, is the assignment legal?
>
> @a=(0,1);
> %hi=( "hi"=>@a );
It is, but it may not mean what you think. It is equivalent to
%hi = ("hi" => 0, 1);
which is equivalent to
%hi = ("hi" => 0, 1 => undef);
since hash assignment requires an even-sized list. It will create two
hash elements, "hi" with a value of 0 and "1" with a value of undef. If
you want a single, array-(reference-)valued element, you need
%hi = ("hi" => \@a);
See perldoc perlreftut and perldoc perldsc.
Ben
--
Although few may originate a policy, we are all able to judge it.
Pericles of Athens, c.430 B.C.
ben@morrow.me.uk
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 06:23:28 GMT
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Should the element contains in an array/hash be scales?
Message-Id: <30v1b41b780r03drnnv3metd1qp5chir0m@4ax.com>
"Jking" <jiangjun_maillist@tom.com> wrote:
>Should the element contains in an array/hash be a scale, so that I can only
I suppose you mean scalar? A scale is something that fish have on their
skin.
>put references pointing to arrays/hashes in them?
Yes.
>In other words, is the assignment legal?
>
>@a=(0,1);
>%hi=( "hi"=>@a );
Yes, it is legitimate, but it probably doesn't do what you expect it to
do.
You can assign arrays to hashes in which case the array elements are
interpreted as key-value pairs. Furthermore the '=>' is just the same as
a regular comma. So that has assignment can be rewritten as
%hi = ('hi', (0, 1));
which is flattened to
%hi = ('hi', 0, 1);
which will assign 0 to $hi{hi} and yield a warning about odd number of
elements because there is no value specified for $hi{1}.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:22:05 -0400
From: John W Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <48b0b81f$0$7353$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:06:28 -0400, John W Kennedy wrote:
>
>> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>>> Not necessarily. An awful lot of CPU cycles were used before microcode
>>> was introduced. Mainframes and minis designed before about 1970 didn't
>>> use or need it
>> No, most S/360s used microcode.
>
> I never used an S/360.
>
> I thought microcode came into the IBM world with S/370 and Future Series
> (which later reappeared as the AS/400, which I did use). Didn't the S/370
> load its microcode off an 8 inch floppy?
Some did, but not all. The 370/145 was the first, and made a big splash
thereby.
As to the 360s:
20 (Incompatible subset) I don't know
22 (Recycled end-of-life 30) CROS
25 Loaded from punched cards
30 CROS
40 TROS
44 (Subset) None
50 CROS
60, 62, 65 ROS
64, 66, 67 ROS
70, 75 None
85 I don't know
91, 95 I don't know -- probably none
195 I don't know
CROS used plastic-coated foil punched cards as the dielectrics of 960
capacitors each.
TROS used little transformer coils that might or might not be severed.
ROS means it was there, but I don't know the technology.
--
John W. Kennedy
"Those in the seat of power oft forget their failings and seek only
the obeisance of others! Thus is bad government born! Hold in your
heart that you and the people are one, human beings all, and good
government shall arise of its own accord! Such is the path of virtue!"
-- Kazuo Koike. "Lone Wolf and Cub: Thirteen Strings" (tr. Dana Lewis)
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 23:42:17 -0400
From: John W Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: This is very OT, and its just a request. It has to do with Ashton Tate Framework 2/PC World contest in the 1980's
Message-Id: <48b0d898$0$20943$607ed4bc@cv.net>
sln@netherlands.com wrote:
...a load of nonsense.
Fine. Go to a lawyer. You will find things to be exactly as I have
described them. You have no case in patent law because you did not file
for a patent. You have no case in copyright law because you have no
reason to believe that they copied your code. And you have no case in
trademark law because you never established a trademark, and, even if
you had done so, you never defended it.
If you are /really/ unlucky, not only will you be stuck with your own
lawyers' fees, but with the fees and costs for the other side. Be aware
that this could go into the millions.
--
John W. Kennedy
"...if you had to fall in love with someone who was evil, I can see
why it was her."
-- "Alias"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:06:25 +0100
From: Ben Morrow <ben@morrow.me.uk>
Subject: Re: Unable to debug Perl script
Message-Id: <1776o5-1m3.ln1@osiris.mauzo.dyndns.org>
Quoth "comp.lang.c++" <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>:
> On Aug 22, 12:23 pm, Ben Morrow <b...@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> > Quoth "szr" <sz...@szromanMO.comVE>:
> >
> > ...
> > Presumably the hash function was tweaked in 5.8, and two of the strings
> > '1'..'5' now end up in the same bucket; I would expect that this was
> > done to make some real-world set of keys distribute better, but I don't
> > know.
> >
>
> Or maybe hv.h provides the clue:
>
> /* hash a key */
> ...
> The "hash seed" feature was added in Perl 5.8.1
> to perturb the results to avoid "algorithmic
> complexity attacks".
Nope. Firstly, the hashing appears to have changed *before* 5.8.1;
secondly, as of 5.8.2 (IIRC) the random-hash-seed behaviour only kicks
in on hashes that are actually under attack.
Ben
--
Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.
ben@morrow.me.uk Groucho Marx
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
#The Perl-Users Digest is a retransmission of the USENET newsgroup
#comp.lang.perl.misc. For subscription or unsubscription requests, send
#the single line:
#
# subscribe perl-users
#or:
# unsubscribe perl-users
#
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu.
NOTE: due to the current flood of worm email banging on ruby, the smtp
server on ruby has been shut off until further notice.
To submit articles to comp.lang.perl.announce, send your article to
clpa@perl.com.
#To request back copies (available for a week or so), send your request
#to almanac@ruby.oce.orst.edu with the command "send perl-users x.y",
#where x is the volume number and y is the issue number.
#For other requests pertaining to the digest, send mail to
#perl-users-request@ruby.oce.orst.edu. Do not waste your time or mine
#sending perl questions to the -request address, I don't have time to
#answer them even if I did know the answer.
------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1816
***************************************
