[30572] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1815 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Sat Aug 23 09:09:49 2008
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:09:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Sat, 23 Aug 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1815
Today's topics:
Re: A reference to a hash member? (to an object's membe <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Re: better way to fetch and install packages than just <whynot@pozharski.name>
Re: better way to fetch and install packages than just <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Re: Help: Debug perl codes <mjcarman@mchsi.com>
new CPAN modules on Sat Aug 23 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <pw@panix.com>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality <martin@see.sig.for.address.invalid>
Re: Unable to debug Perl script <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:00:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: "A. Farber" <Alexander.Farber@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: A reference to a hash member? (to an object's member variable)
Message-Id: <73607c49-a8c3-4008-9ae1-54dabe51436a@b1g2000hsg.googlegroups.com>
Thank you all
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:53:41 +0300
From: Eric Pozharski <whynot@pozharski.name>
Subject: Re: better way to fetch and install packages than just a bunch of system ?calls?
Message-Id: <53i3o5xa28.ln2@carpet.zombinet>
Ed <edwardjameshartnett@gmail.com> wrote:
*SKIP*
> copy("/upc/share/ed/downloads/zlib-$
> {zlib_version}.tar.gz", $hdf5dir) || die;
In my experience B<File::Copy> has somewhat unintuitive notion of what
is error. You've better don't rely on that.
*SKIP*
> system("gunzip -f zlib-${zlib_version}.tar.gz");
> system("tar xf zlib-${zlib_version}.tar");
If my reading of F<changelog> of B<tar> is correct, than I'd guess that
B<tar> knows about B<gzip> sometime about Sep 2004. So
C<tar -xzf whatever.tgz> would do the same.
And why you copy archives? B<tar> will happily extract (if that's
possible, of course) from anywhere into I<cwd>.
*SKIP*
> Any comments appreciated!
Don't write shell in Perl.
--
Torvalds' goal for Linux is very simple: World Domination
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 09:33:40 +0200
From: Martijn Lievaart <m@rtij.nl.invlalid>
Subject: Re: better way to fetch and install packages than just a bunch of system ?calls?
Message-Id: <pan.2008.08.23.07.33.39@rtij.nl.invlalid>
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:53:41 +0300, Eric Pozharski wrote:
> Ed <edwardjameshartnett@gmail.com> wrote:
>> system("gunzip -f zlib-${zlib_version}.tar.gz"); system("tar
>> xf zlib-${zlib_version}.tar");
>
> If my reading of F<changelog> of B<tar> is correct, than I'd guess that
> B<tar> knows about B<gzip> sometime about Sep 2004. So C<tar -xzf
> whatever.tgz> would do the same.
>
> And why you copy archives? B<tar> will happily extract (if that's
> possible, of course) from anywhere into I<cwd>.
Not all tars are GNU tars.
M4
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:11:37 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <slrngauou9.84k.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk> wrote:
> pretense that they are some how aloud to create law in the group.
^^^^^
<snicker>
Now you're actually on to something!
From now on, whoever posts in MP3 audio files will create law in the group.
I'm glad we've finally got that solved.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 20:25:10 -0500
From: Tad J McClellan <tadmc@seesig.invalid>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <slrngaupnm.84k.tadmc@tadmc30.sbcglobal.net>
Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk> wrote:
> It's nothing short of bonified hypocrisy.
^^^^^^^^
<snicker>
Just for the record, none of the hypocrites in this
thread were wearing bonnets.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:50:30 GMT
From: Michael Carman <mjcarman@mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Help: Debug perl codes
Message-Id: <C1Krk.254735$TT4.96916@attbi_s22>
Thrill5 wrote:
> There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers
That was in grade school. There are plenty of dumb questions in the
adult world.
> Isn't one of the great things about a newsgroup is that your CAN use
> this newsgroup as a service to read the docs for you?
Hell, no! It's incredibly rude and selfish to expect someone to do that
for you. Besides, if someone can't read the docs what makes you think
they can read them when they're quoted?
> How does he know if the OP spent 2 hours researching or spent none?
Unless the OP tells us outright he can't. He can only make an educated
guess. The less information the OP provides the more likely she is to be
judged as having *not* tried to help herself first.
> Why does it that matter anyway?
It matters because it's human nature to want to help people who deserve
it and to not want to be taken advantage of by people who don't.
For the record, I've never seen anyone flamed when they post a question
that follows this pattern:
I want to do X. I googled for Y and read the Z page in perldoc, but
couldn't find what I was looking for.
Even if X is a blatant FAQ the answers are usually "that's in the
perlfoo manpage" or maybe just "perldoc perlfoo." No-one says "RTFM"
when the OP demonstrates that they made an effort, however cursory.
-mjc
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 04:42:20 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Sat Aug 23 2008
Message-Id: <K61EEK.3GC@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Acme-StringFormat-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/Acme-StringFormat-0.04/
Smart interface to sprintf()
----
Apache-Voodoo-2.0400
http://search.cpan.org/~maverick/Apache-Voodoo-2.0400/
or just Voodoo for short; is a web application framework for Apache 1.3 and 2.0
----
Archive-Tar-1.39_01
http://search.cpan.org/~kane/Archive-Tar-1.39_01/
module for manipulations of tar archives
----
CPAN-Mini-Webserver-0.40
http://search.cpan.org/~lbrocard/CPAN-Mini-Webserver-0.40/
Search and browse Mini CPAN
----
CPANPLUS-Dist-Fedora-0.0.1
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/CPANPLUS-Dist-Fedora-0.0.1/
a cpanplus backend to build Fedora/Red Hat rpms
----
Catalyst-Action-REST-0.66
http://search.cpan.org/~jshirley/Catalyst-Action-REST-0.66/
Automated REST Method Dispatching
----
Catalyst-Plugin-Authorization-ACL-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~bricas/Catalyst-Plugin-Authorization-ACL-0.09/
ACL support for Catalyst applications.
----
Catalyst-Plugin-PageCache-0.19
http://search.cpan.org/~agrundma/Catalyst-Plugin-PageCache-0.19/
Cache the output of entire pages
----
CatalystX-ListFramework-Builder-0.27
http://search.cpan.org/~oliver/CatalystX-ListFramework-Builder-0.27/
Instant AJAX web front-end for DBIx::Class, using Catalyst
----
Class-MOP-0.64_03
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/Class-MOP-0.64_03/
A Meta Object Protocol for Perl 5
----
DBIx-DataAudit-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~corion/DBIx-DataAudit-0.07/
summarize column data for a table
----
DBIx-DataAudit-0.08
http://search.cpan.org/~corion/DBIx-DataAudit-0.08/
summarize column data for a table
----
Data-Iterator-Hierarchical-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~nobull/Data-Iterator-Hierarchical-0.02/
Iterate hierarchically over data
----
Data-Transform-0.01_01
http://search.cpan.org/~martijn/Data-Transform-0.01_01/
base class for protocol abstractions
----
Data-Transform-0.02_01
http://search.cpan.org/~martijn/Data-Transform-0.02_01/
base class for protocol abstractions
----
DateTime-TimeZone-0.7903
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-TimeZone-0.7903/
Time zone object base class and factory
----
Graphics-Primitive-0.23
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-0.23/
Device and library agnostic graphic primitives
----
Graphics-Primitive-Driver-Cairo-0.13
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-Driver-Cairo-0.13/
Cairo backend for Graphics::Primitive
----
Gtk2-Ex-Clock-6
http://search.cpan.org/~kryde/Gtk2-Ex-Clock-6/
simple digital clock widget
----
HTML-Timeline-1.03
http://search.cpan.org/~rsavage/HTML-Timeline-1.03/
Convert a Gedcom file into a Timeline file
----
HTTP-Engine-0.0.14
http://search.cpan.org/~yappo/HTTP-Engine-0.0.14/
Web Server Gateway Interface and HTTP Server Engine Drivers (Yet Another Catalyst::Engine)
----
HTTP-Engine-Compat-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~yappo/HTTP-Engine-Compat-0.02/
version 0.0.12 Compatibility layer of HTTP::Engine
----
HTTPEx-Declare-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~yappo/HTTPEx-Declare-0.03/
Declarative HTTP::Engine
----
Lingua-Han-PinYin-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~fayland/Lingua-Han-PinYin-0.12/
Retrieve the Mandarin(PinYin) of Chinese character(HanZi).
----
Lingua-Stem-Snowball-0.951
http://search.cpan.org/~creamyg/Lingua-Stem-Snowball-0.951/
Perl interface to Snowball stemmers.
----
Lingua-StopWords-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~creamyg/Lingua-StopWords-0.09/
Stop words for several languages.
----
Mail-IMAPClient-3.09
http://search.cpan.org/~markov/Mail-IMAPClient-3.09/
An IMAP Client API
----
MooseX-Singleton-0.09_02
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/MooseX-Singleton-0.09_02/
turn your Moose class into a singleton
----
Moxy-0.45
http://search.cpan.org/~tokuhirom/Moxy-0.45/
Mobile web development proxy
----
Net-Amazon-EC2-0.09
http://search.cpan.org/~jkim/Net-Amazon-EC2-0.09/
Perl interface to the Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (EC2) environment.
----
Net-Link-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~jkramer/Net-Link-0.01/
----
Perl-Critic-Pulp-7
http://search.cpan.org/~kryde/Perl-Critic-Pulp-7/
some add-on perlcritic policies
----
Ruby-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~gfuji/Ruby-0.07/
Perl interface to Ruby interpreter
----
SMS-Send-DE-MeinBMW-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~borisz/SMS-Send-DE-MeinBMW-0.06/
An SMS::Send driver for the www.meinbmw.de website
----
Shipwright-1.13_12
http://search.cpan.org/~sunnavy/Shipwright-1.13_12/
Best Practical Builder
----
Shipwright-1.13_13
http://search.cpan.org/~sunnavy/Shipwright-1.13_13/
Best Practical Builder
----
Sort-External-0.171
http://search.cpan.org/~creamyg/Sort-External-0.171/
Sort huge lists.
----
Statistics-Basic-1.5
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Statistics-Basic-1.5/
A collection of very basic statistics modules
----
Statistics-Basic-1.53
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/Statistics-Basic-1.53/
A collection of very basic statistics modules
----
TAP-Harness-JUnit-0.23
http://search.cpan.org/~lkundrak/TAP-Harness-JUnit-0.23/
Generate JUnit compatible output from TAP results
----
Test-HTTP-Server-Simple-StashWarnings-0.01
http://search.cpan.org/~sartak/Test-HTTP-Server-Simple-StashWarnings-0.01/
catch your forked server's warnings
----
Text-CSV-1.08
http://search.cpan.org/~makamaka/Text-CSV-1.08/
comma-separated values manipulator (using XS or PurePerl)
----
UNIVERSAL-isa-1.01
http://search.cpan.org/~chromatic/UNIVERSAL-isa-1.01/
Attempt to recover from people calling UNIVERSAL::isa as a function
----
Win32-Monitoring-WindowPing-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~rplessl/Win32-Monitoring-WindowPing-0.05/
Test Win32 Window for responsiveness
----
Zucchini-0.0.9
http://search.cpan.org/~chisel/Zucchini-0.0.9/
turn templates into static websites
----
autodie-1.991
http://search.cpan.org/~pjf/autodie-1.991/
Replace functions with ones that succeed or die with lexical scope
----
mobirc-1.04
http://search.cpan.org/~tokuhirom/mobirc-1.04/
modern IRC to HTTP gateway
----
netrun-1.20
http://search.cpan.org/~dcs/netrun-1.20/
run a script over multiple hosts in parallel
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 21:52:27 -0400
From: Paul Wallich <pw@panix.com>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <g8nqgr$1t8$1@reader1.panix.com>
Martin Gregorie wrote:
> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:56:09 +0000, sln wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:11:48 -0500, rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>>
>>> sln@netherlands.com> wrote:
>>> *IS* raw machine code, *NOT* assembler!!
>> [snip]
>>
>> I don't see the distinction.
>> Just dissasemble it and find out.
>>
> There's a 1:1 relationship between machine code and assembler.
> Unless its a macro-assembler, of course!
>
>> Each op is a routine in microcode.
>> That is machine code. Those op routines use machine cycles.
>>
> Not necessarily. An awful lot of CPU cycles were used before microcode
> was introduced. Mainframes and minis designed before about 1970 didn't
> use or need it and I'm pretty sure that there was no microcode in the
> original 8/16 bit microprocessors either (6800, 6809, 6502, 8080, 8086,
> Z80 and friends).
>
> The number of clock cycles per instruction isn't a guide either. The only
> processors I know that got close to 1 cycle/instruction were all RISC,
> all used large lumps of microcode and were heavily pipelined.
>
> By contrast the ICL 1900 series (3rd generation mainframe, no microcode,
> no pipeline, 24 bit word) averaged 3 clock cycles per instruction.
> Motorola 6800 and 6809 (no microcode or pipelines either, 1 byte fetch)
> average 4 - 5 cycles/instruction.
One problem with this discussion is that the term "microcode" isn't
really well-defined. There's the vertical kind, the horizontal kind,
with and without internal control-flow constructs, and then there are
various levels of visibility to the user -- see e.g. the pdp-8 manual,
where "microcoding" is used to mean piling the bits for a bunch of
instructions together in the same memory location, which works fine as
long as the instructions in question don't use conflicting sets of bits.
paul
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:15:28 -0400
From: =?UTF-8?B?QXJuZSBWYWpow7hq?= <arne@vajhoej.dk>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <48af72c1$0$90264$14726298@news.sunsite.dk>
Paul Wallich wrote:
> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 22:56:09 +0000, sln wrote:
>>> On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 09:11:48 -0500, rpw3@rpw3.org (Rob Warnock) wrote:
>>>> sln@netherlands.com> wrote:
>>>> *IS* raw machine code, *NOT* assembler!!
>>> [snip]
>>>
>>> I don't see the distinction.
>>> Just dissasemble it and find out.
>>>
>> There's a 1:1 relationship between machine code and assembler. Unless
>> its a macro-assembler, of course!
>>
>>> Each op is a routine in microcode.
>>> That is machine code. Those op routines use machine cycles.
>>>
>> Not necessarily. An awful lot of CPU cycles were used before microcode
>> was introduced. Mainframes and minis designed before about 1970 didn't
>> use or need it and I'm pretty sure that there was no microcode in the
>> original 8/16 bit microprocessors either (6800, 6809, 6502, 8080,
>> 8086, Z80 and friends).
>>
>> The number of clock cycles per instruction isn't a guide either. The
>> only processors I know that got close to 1 cycle/instruction were all
>> RISC, all used large lumps of microcode and were heavily pipelined.
>>
>> By contrast the ICL 1900 series (3rd generation mainframe, no
>> microcode, no pipeline, 24 bit word) averaged 3 clock cycles per
>> instruction. Motorola 6800 and 6809 (no microcode or pipelines either,
>> 1 byte fetch) average 4 - 5 cycles/instruction.
>
> One problem with this discussion is that the term "microcode" isn't
> really well-defined. There's the vertical kind, the horizontal kind,
> with and without internal control-flow constructs, and then there are
> various levels of visibility to the user -- see e.g. the pdp-8 manual,
> where "microcoding" is used to mean piling the bits for a bunch of
> instructions together in the same memory location, which works fine as
> long as the instructions in question don't use conflicting sets of bits.
I thought microcode was relative well defined as being the software
used to implement instructions that were not fully implemented in
hardware.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microcode does not make me think otherwise.
Arne
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:06:28 -0400
From: John W Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <48af8cc4$0$20919$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Martin Gregorie wrote:
> Not necessarily. An awful lot of CPU cycles were used before microcode
> was introduced. Mainframes and minis designed before about 1970 didn't
> use or need it
No, most S/360s used microcode.
--
John W. Kennedy
"There are those who argue that everything breaks even in this old
dump of a world of ours. I suppose these ginks who argue that way hold
that because the rich man gets ice in the summer and the poor man gets
it in the winter things are breaking even for both. Maybe so, but I'll
swear I can't see it that way."
-- The last words of Bat Masterson
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:18:29 -0400
From: John W Kennedy <jwkenne@attglobal.net>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <48af8f95$0$29518$607ed4bc@cv.net>
Rob Warnock wrote:
> What was the corresponding 1401 boot sequence?
The 1401 had a boot-from-tape-1 button on the console, and a
boot-from-card button on the card reader. You couldn't truly boot from a
disk; you loaded a little starter deck of about 20 cards on the card reader.
On the 1401, the typewriter was an optional luxury, mainly used in long
batch jobs to do ad-hoc on-line queries. On the compatible 1460, the
typewriter was somewhat more common, because the console the typewriter
mounted on was a standard part of the system, so only the typewriter had
to be added.
--
John W. Kennedy
"You can, if you wish, class all science-fiction together; but it is
about as perceptive as classing the works of Ballantyne, Conrad and W.
W. Jacobs together as the 'sea-story' and then criticizing _that_."
-- C. S. Lewis. "An Experiment in Criticism"
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:54:25 +0000 (UTC)
From: Martin Gregorie <martin@see.sig.for.address.invalid>
Subject: Re: The Importance of Terminology's Quality
Message-Id: <g8oq91$gq7$2@localhost.localdomain>
On Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:06:28 -0400, John W Kennedy wrote:
> Martin Gregorie wrote:
>> Not necessarily. An awful lot of CPU cycles were used before microcode
>> was introduced. Mainframes and minis designed before about 1970 didn't
>> use or need it
>
> No, most S/360s used microcode.
I never used an S/360.
I thought microcode came into the IBM world with S/370 and Future Series
(which later reappeared as the AS/400, which I did use). Didn't the S/370
load its microcode off an 8 inch floppy?
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:44:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: "comp.lang.c++" <ced@blv-sam-01.ca.boeing.com>
Subject: Re: Unable to debug Perl script
Message-Id: <391c0b32-a425-423b-9b78-2c7bcd12a648@o40g2000prn.googlegroups.com>
On Aug 22, 12:23 pm, Ben Morrow <b...@morrow.me.uk> wrote:
> Quoth "szr" <sz...@szromanMO.comVE>:
>
> ...
> Presumably the hash function was tweaked in 5.8, and two of the strings
> '1'..'5' now end up in the same bucket; I would expect that this was
> done to make some real-world set of keys distribute better, but I don't
> know.
>
Or maybe hv.h provides the clue:
/* hash a key */
...
The "hash seed" feature was added in Perl 5.8.1
to perturb the results to avoid "algorithmic
complexity attacks".
--
Charles DeRykus
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1815
***************************************
