[30560] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 1803 Volume: 11
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Tue Aug 19 06:09:40 2008
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 03:09:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Tue, 19 Aug 2008 Volume: 11 Number: 1803
Today's topics:
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall.unet@cs.bris.ac.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Re: CLPM - a help group? <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
new CPAN modules on Tue Aug 19 2008 (Randal Schwartz)
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Re: Programming Languages Decisions <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Programming Languages Decisions <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: Programming Languages Decisions <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Re: Programming Languages Decisions <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
String <sajapuram.arun.prakash@gmail.com>
Re: String <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Re: String <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:11:38 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall.unet@cs.bris.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <Gluqk.4573$zv7.4115@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>
Justin C wrote:
> On 2008-08-16, Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Justin C wrote:
>>> On 2008-08-13, Adam Worrall <worrall+unet@remove.cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> Stop assuming everyone agrees with the "popular" views.
>>> Stop assuming that everyone accept you doesn't.
>> So, it's ok for you and others to make a particular assumption but it's
>> not for someone of the opposing view? Why the double standard?
>
> OK. Let's test your assumption that that there are persons (excluding
> yourself) that think this is a help group.
That wasn't the point and you know it. The point was it functions like a
_volunteer_ help desk, not a paid one. But, by all means, feel free to
continue wallowing in your own ignorance.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:14:30 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <nouqk.4574$zv7.423@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>
Justin C wrote:
> On 2008-08-16, Adam Worrall <worrall.unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>> Justin C wrote:
>>> On 2008-08-13, Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>> John Bokma wrote:
>>>>> Something that /appears/ to function as, in this case, a voluntary help
>>>>> desk, doesn't make it one.
>>>> It also doesn't not make it one. Why is it you can dictate what it is or
>>>> isn't yet any other person who gets buried for it?
>>> Al Qaeda, selling cookies door-to-door, dressed as boy scouts,
>>> apparently raising money for Georgian orphans doesn't make Al Qaeda a
>>> charitable organisation either. They're still terrorists.
>> What the hell does this have to do with anything?
>
> Appearances can be deceptive... things aren't always as you see them...
> sometimes you have to step back to see the bigger picture.... sometimes
> you just want an argument and will walk into a room and antagonise
> everyone in it.
I antagonized no one, I merely stated an observation. which was no less
valid than anyone else's, as it describes how the group functions, no
matter how much you feel you must deny it.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:16:54 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <Cquqk.4575$zv7.1650@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>
Martijn Lievaart wrote:
> On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:36:21 -0700, Adam Worrall wrote:
>
>>> A help desk is a place where people can go with the expectation of
>>> receiving assistance, without commentary that isn't relevant to their
>>> questions.
>> There you go again. This does not really apply to a _volunteer_ help
>> desk where you are _not_ obligated to answer _anything_, which _how_
>> _this_ _group_ _functions_.
>
> That's not how a volunteer help desk functions, so stop pretending it is.
Yes it is. I've been on one, so I've been speaking from first hand
experience, so don't tell me how one functions. You just posted in one.
> (And you have been explained this several times
So have you. And reiterating a falsehood over and over doesn't make it
any more true, so please spare us all the superior
you-must-listen-to-us-because-we-are-never-wrong routine.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:24:12 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <txuqk.4576$zv7.1115@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>
John Bokma wrote:
> Adam Worrall <worrall.unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> wrong. I was merely stating a fact about how this and many other group
>> function.
>
> This group *functioning* like a help desk, doesn't make it one. So there
> is no problem at all if someone here states that this group is *not* a
> helpdesk, simply because it isn't.
See the difference here? I never sait it *was* one, I said it acted like
one. I wasn't attempting to make an authoritarian position, yet you
seem to have no problem doing that your self, sayign that "it isn't",
when you clearly have no authority to say that, just as I or anyone has
no place to say it is.
> A nail can function like a screw, but that doesn't make a nail a screw,
> even though you have used one time a nail to replace a missing screw.
Fallacy; I nor anyone tried to say that this nail was a screw, but that
it was acting just like one.
I don't know why some of you have to get your nickers in such a pathetic
twist over the dumbest of subjects, expending an incredible amount
effort just to avoid admitting you may be wrong. If you all would loose
the superiority complex and pitch-fork-and-torch mob mentality for 20
seconds you'd see you had this figured quite the wrong way.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 00:28:06 -0700
From: Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ca.uk>
Subject: Re: CLPM - a help group?
Message-Id: <7Buqk.4577$zv7.1570@flpi143.ffdc.sbc.com>
John Bokma wrote:
> Adam Worrall <worrall.unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>
>> John Bokma wrote:
>>> Adam Worrall <worrall-unet@cs.bris.ac.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>> No, not all help desk work that way. Please stop using that one
>>>> blanket statement to cover all various kinds of help services that
>>>> exist out there. I have worked one on so I know first hand, so
>>>> please spare me the superiority complex.
>>> So you worked at a voluntary help desk that had no obligation to
>>> function?
>> That's not what I said. We were not obligated to give help,
>
> How did it function is you all were not obligated to give help? Of course
> we're not talking here about help out of the scope of the help desk.
How many times do I have to explain it to you before you get it? We
weren't paid, we were there on our own time. How is this any different
than how a news group generally functions?
>> but we did so because we wanted to.
>
> And you could come and go when ever you wanted, stay away without calling
> in sick. Do nothing the whole day, being rude at everybody without a
> single problem?
That's a rather loaded assumption on your part. Why are you assuming we
would come in to be rude? And after I already explained to you that we
had volunteered to help. I mean, I didn't say it was 100% like CLPM, but
that CLPM in general functions in a similar way.
- Adam
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 04:42:20 GMT
From: merlyn@stonehenge.com (Randal Schwartz)
Subject: new CPAN modules on Tue Aug 19 2008
Message-Id: <K5tzqK.4sw@zorch.sf-bay.org>
The following modules have recently been added to or updated in the
Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN). You can install them using the
instructions in the 'perlmodinstall' page included with your Perl
distribution.
Authen-Quiz-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~lushe/Authen-Quiz-0.04/
The person's input is confirmed by setting the quiz.
----
Authen-Quiz-0.05
http://search.cpan.org/~lushe/Authen-Quiz-0.05/
The person's input is confirmed by setting the quiz.
----
Business-Hours-0.08
http://search.cpan.org/~alexmv/Business-Hours-0.08/
Calculate business hours in a time period
----
Business-Tax-VAT-Validation-0.20
http://search.cpan.org/~bpgn/Business-Tax-VAT-Validation-0.20/
A class for european VAT numbers validation.
----
CGI-Session-Driver-oracle-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~rsavage/CGI-Session-Driver-oracle-1.02/
A CGI::Session driver for Oracle
----
CPAN-CachingProxy-1.3
http://search.cpan.org/~jettero/CPAN-CachingProxy-1.3/
A very simple lightweight CGI based Caching Proxy
----
CPAN-Mini-Webserver-0.38
http://search.cpan.org/~lbrocard/CPAN-Mini-Webserver-0.38/
Search and browse Mini CPAN
----
CPAN-WWW-Testers-Generator-0.23
http://search.cpan.org/~barbie/CPAN-WWW-Testers-Generator-0.23/
Download and summarize CPAN Testers data
----
CatalystX-ListFramework-Builder-0.24
http://search.cpan.org/~oliver/CatalystX-ListFramework-Builder-0.24/
Instant AJAX web front-end for DBIx::Class, using Catalyst
----
Chart-Clicker-1.99_08
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Chart-Clicker-1.99_08/
Powerful, extensible charting.
----
DBD-Pg-2.9.1
http://search.cpan.org/~turnstep/DBD-Pg-2.9.1/
PostgreSQL database driver for the DBI module
----
DBD-Pg-2.9.2
http://search.cpan.org/~turnstep/DBD-Pg-2.9.2/
PostgreSQL database driver for the DBI module
----
Data-Report-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~jv/Data-Report-0.10/
Framework for flexible reporting
----
DateTime-TimeZone-0.7901
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-TimeZone-0.7901/
Time zone object base class and factory
----
DateTime-TimeZone-0.7902
http://search.cpan.org/~drolsky/DateTime-TimeZone-0.7902/
Time zone object base class and factory
----
Dynamic-Loader-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~evaleto/Dynamic-Loader-0.11/
call a script without to know where is his location.
----
Dynamic-Loader-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~evaleto/Dynamic-Loader-0.12/
call a script without to know where is his location.
----
Eval-Context-0.07
http://search.cpan.org/~nkh/Eval-Context-0.07/
Evalute perl code in context wraper
----
Filter-QuasiQuote-0.06
http://search.cpan.org/~agent/Filter-QuasiQuote-0.06/
Quasiquoting for Perl
----
Finance-Bank-Cahoot-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~masaccio/Finance-Bank-Cahoot-1.02/
Check your Cahoot bank accounts from Perl
----
Gantry-Plugins-Session-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~kesteb/Gantry-Plugins-Session-0.02/
Plugin for cookie based session management
----
Gantry-Plugins-Uaf-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~kesteb/Gantry-Plugins-Uaf-0.03/
A User Authentication and Authorization Framework
----
Graphics-Primitive-0.17
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-0.17/
Device and library agnostic graphic primitives
----
Graphics-Primitive-0.18
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-0.18/
Device and library agnostic graphic primitives
----
Graphics-Primitive-0.19
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-0.19/
Device and library agnostic graphic primitives
----
Graphics-Primitive-0.20
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-0.20/
Device and library agnostic graphic primitives
----
Graphics-Primitive-Driver-Cairo-0.10
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-Driver-Cairo-0.10/
Cairo backend for Graphics::Primitive
----
Graphics-Primitive-Driver-Cairo-0.11
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Graphics-Primitive-Driver-Cairo-0.11/
Cairo backend for Graphics::Primitive
----
HTML-Timeline-1.02
http://search.cpan.org/~rsavage/HTML-Timeline-1.02/
Convert a Gedcom file into a Timeline file
----
IO-Async-0.16.001
http://search.cpan.org/~pevans/IO-Async-0.16.001/
a collection of modules that implement asynchronous filehandle IO
----
IPC-Messaging-0.01_10
http://search.cpan.org/~gruber/IPC-Messaging-0.01_10/
process handling and message passing, Erlang style
----
Jemplate-0.23_1
http://search.cpan.org/~rkrimen/Jemplate-0.23_1/
JavaScript Templating with Template Toolkit
----
Layout-Manager-0.14
http://search.cpan.org/~gphat/Layout-Manager-0.14/
2D Layout Management
----
Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.68
http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/Locale-Maketext-Lexicon-0.68/
Use other catalog formats in Maketext
----
Math-GSL-0.09_02
http://search.cpan.org/~leto/Math-GSL-0.09_02/
Perl interface to the GNU Scientific Library (GSL)
----
Muldis-D-0.46.0
http://search.cpan.org/~duncand/Muldis-D-0.46.0/
Formal spec of Muldis D relational DBMS lang
----
Net-Trac-0.01_01
http://search.cpan.org/~jesse/Net-Trac-0.01_01/
----
POD2-IT-0.12
http://search.cpan.org/~enrys/POD2-IT-0.12/
Italian translation of Perl core documentation
----
POEIKC-0.02_02
http://search.cpan.org/~suzuki/POEIKC-0.02_02/
POE IKC daemon and client
----
Parse-CPAN-Whois-0.02
http://search.cpan.org/~martijn/Parse-CPAN-Whois-0.02/
Parse CPAN's authors/00whois.xml file
----
Parse-RPN-2.42
http://search.cpan.org/~fdulau/Parse-RPN-2.42/
----
Regexp-Wildcards-1.00
http://search.cpan.org/~vpit/Regexp-Wildcards-1.00/
Converts wildcard expressions to Perl regular expressions.
----
SVN-Access-0.04
http://search.cpan.org/~mgregoro/SVN-Access-0.04/
Perl extension to manipulate SVN Access files
----
Sjis-0.24
http://search.cpan.org/~ina/Sjis-0.24/
Source code filter for ShiftJIS script
----
SkypeAPI-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~laomoi/SkypeAPI-0.03/
Skype API simple implementation, only support windows platform now.
----
String-LCSS_XS-1.0
http://search.cpan.org/~limaone/String-LCSS_XS-1.0/
Find The Longest Common Substring of Two Strings.
----
Test-Run-0.0117
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Test-Run-0.0117/
a new and improved test harness for TAP scripts.
----
Test-Run-CmdLine-0.0108
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Test-Run-CmdLine-0.0108/
Analyze tests from the command line using Test::Run
----
Test-Run-Plugin-AlternateInterpreters-0.0106
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Test-Run-Plugin-AlternateInterpreters-0.0106/
Define different interpreters for different test scripts with Test::Run.
----
Test-Run-Plugin-ColorFileVerdicts-0.0104
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Test-Run-Plugin-ColorFileVerdicts-0.0104/
make the file verdict ("ok", "NOT OK") colorful.
----
Test-Run-Plugin-ColorSummary-0.0103
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Test-Run-Plugin-ColorSummary-0.0103/
A Test::Run plugin that colors the summary.
----
Test-Run-Plugin-TrimDisplayedFilenames-0.0101
http://search.cpan.org/~shlomif/Test-Run-Plugin-TrimDisplayedFilenames-0.0101/
trim the first components of the displayed filename to deal with excessively long ones.
----
Test-WWW-Mechanize-Catalyst-0.43
http://search.cpan.org/~lbrocard/Test-WWW-Mechanize-Catalyst-0.43/
Test::WWW::Mechanize for Catalyst
----
Weather-Bug-0.23
http://search.cpan.org/~gwadej/Weather-Bug-0.23/
Provide an object oriented interface to the WeatherBug API.
----
Win32-Clipboard-0.54
http://search.cpan.org/~jdb/Win32-Clipboard-0.54/
Interaction with the Windows clipboard
----
XiaoI-0.03
http://search.cpan.org/~laomoi/XiaoI-0.03/
Perl extension for blah blah blah
----
rename-1.6
http://search.cpan.org/~pederst/rename-1.6/
renames multiple files
If you're an author of one of these modules, please submit a detailed
announcement to comp.lang.perl.announce, and we'll pass it along.
This message was generated by a Perl program described in my Linux
Magazine column, which can be found on-line (along with more than
200 other freely available past column articles) at
http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col82.html
print "Just another Perl hacker," # the original
--
Randal L. Schwartz - Stonehenge Consulting Services, Inc. - +1 503 777 0095
<merlyn@stonehenge.com> <URL:http://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/>
Smalltalk/Perl/Unix consulting, Technical writing, Comedy, etc. etc.
See http://methodsandmessages.vox.com/ for Smalltalk and Seaside discussion
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:11:34 GMT
From: tadmc@seesig.invalid
Subject: Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
Message-Id: <Gmuqk.11024$vn7.10469@flpi147.ffdc.sbc.com>
Outline
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
- Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
- Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
Really Really Should
- Lurk for a while before posting
- Search a Usenet archive
If You Like
- Check Other Resources
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Is there a better place to ask your question?
- Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
- Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
- Use an effective followup style
- Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
- Ask perl to help you
- Do not re-type Perl code
- Provide enough information
- Do not provide too much information
- Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
Social faux pas to avoid
- Asking a Frequently Asked Question
- Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
- Asking for emailed answers
- Beware of saying "doesn't work"
- Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
Be extra cautious when you get upset
- Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
- Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Posting Guidelines for comp.lang.perl.misc ($Revision: 1.8 $)
This newsgroup, commonly called clpmisc, is a technical newsgroup
intended to be used for discussion of Perl related issues (except job
postings), whether it be comments or questions.
As you would expect, clpmisc discussions are usually very technical in
nature and there are conventions for conduct in technical newsgroups
going somewhat beyond those in non-technical newsgroups.
The article at:
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
describes how to get answers from technical people in general.
This article describes things that you should, and should not, do to
increase your chances of getting an answer to your Perl question. It is
available in POD, HTML and plain text formats at:
http://www.rehabitation.com/clpmisc.shtml
For more information about netiquette in general, see the "Netiquette
Guidelines" at:
http://andrew2.andrew.cmu.edu/rfc/rfc1855.html
A note to newsgroup "regulars":
Do not use these guidelines as a "license to flame" or other
meanness. It is possible that a poster is unaware of things
discussed here. Give them the benefit of the doubt, and just
help them learn how to post, rather than assume that they do
know and are being the "bad kind" of Lazy.
A note about technical terms used here:
In this document, we use words like "must" and "should" as
they're used in technical conversation (such as you will
encounter in this newsgroup). When we say that you *must* do
something, we mean that if you don't do that something, then
it's unlikely that you will benefit much from this group.
We're not bossing you around; we're making the point without
lots of words.
Do *NOT* send email to the maintainer of these guidelines. It will be
discarded unread. The guidelines belong to the newsgroup so all
discussion should appear in the newsgroup. I am just the secretary that
writes down the consensus of the group.
Before posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
Must
This section describes things that you *must* do before posting to
clpmisc, in order to maximize your chances of getting meaningful replies
to your inquiry and to avoid getting flamed for being lazy and trying to
have others do your work.
The perl distribution includes documentation that is copied to your hard
drive when you install perl. Also installed is a program for looking
things up in that (and other) documentation named 'perldoc'.
You should either find out where the docs got installed on your system,
or use perldoc to find them for you. Type "perldoc perldoc" to learn how
to use perldoc itself. Type "perldoc perl" to start reading Perl's
standard documentation.
Check the Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
Checking the FAQ before posting is required in Big 8 newsgroups in
general, there is nothing clpmisc-specific about this requirement.
You are expected to do this in nearly all newsgroups.
You can use the "-q" switch with perldoc to do a word search of the
questions in the Perl FAQs.
Check the other standard Perl docs (*.pod)
The perl distribution comes with much more documentation than is
available for most other newsgroups, so in clpmisc you should also
see if you can find an answer in the other (non-FAQ) standard docs
before posting.
It is *not* required, or even expected, that you actually *read* all of
Perl's standard docs, only that you spend a few minutes searching them
before posting.
Try doing a word-search in the standard docs for some words/phrases
taken from your problem statement or from your very carefully worded
"Subject:" header.
Really Really Should
This section describes things that you *really should* do before posting
to clpmisc.
Lurk for a while before posting
This is very important and expected in all newsgroups. Lurking means
to monitor a newsgroup for a period to become familiar with local
customs. Each newsgroup has specific customs and rituals. Knowing
these before you participate will help avoid embarrassing social
situations. Consider yourself to be a foreigner at first!
Search a Usenet archive
There are tens of thousands of Perl programmers. It is very likely
that your question has already been asked (and answered). See if you
can find where it has already been answered.
One such searchable archive is:
http://groups.google.com/advanced_group_search
If You Like
This section describes things that you *can* do before posting to
clpmisc.
Check Other Resources
You may want to check in books or on web sites to see if you can
find the answer to your question.
But you need to consider the source of such information: there are a
lot of very poor Perl books and web sites, and several good ones
too, of course.
Posting to comp.lang.perl.misc
There can be 200 messages in clpmisc in a single day. Nobody is going to
read every article. They must decide somehow which articles they are
going to read, and which they will skip.
Your post is in competition with 199 other posts. You need to "win"
before a person who can help you will even read your question.
These sections describe how you can help keep your article from being
one of the "skipped" ones.
Is there a better place to ask your question?
Question should be about Perl, not about the application area
It can be difficult to separate out where your problem really is,
but you should make a conscious effort to post to the most
applicable newsgroup. That is, after all, where you are the most
likely to find the people who know how to answer your question.
Being able to "partition" a problem is an essential skill for
effectively troubleshooting programming problems. If you don't get
that right, you end up looking for answers in the wrong places.
It should be understood that you may not know that the root of your
problem is not Perl-related (the two most frequent ones are CGI and
Operating System related), so off-topic postings will happen from
time to time. Be gracious when someone helps you find a better place
to ask your question by pointing you to a more applicable newsgroup.
How to participate (post) in the clpmisc community
Carefully choose the contents of your Subject header
You have 40 precious characters of Subject to win out and be one of
the posts that gets read. Don't waste them. Take care while
composing them, they are the key that opens the door to getting an
answer.
Spend them indicating what aspect of Perl others will find if they
should decide to read your article.
Do not spend them indicating "experience level" (guru, newbie...).
Do not spend them pleading (please read, urgent, help!...).
Do not spend them on non-Subjects (Perl question, one-word
Subject...)
For more information on choosing a Subject see "Choosing Good
Subject Lines":
http://www.cpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/DMR/subjects.post
Part of the beauty of newsgroup dynamics, is that you can contribute
to the community with your very first post! If your choice of
Subject leads a fellow Perler to find the thread you are starting,
then even asking a question helps us all.
Use an effective followup style
When composing a followup, quote only enough text to establish the
context for the comments that you will add. Always indicate who
wrote the quoted material. Never quote an entire article. Never
quote a .signature (unless that is what you are commenting on).
Intersperse your comments *following* each section of quoted text to
which they relate. Unappreciated followup styles are referred to as
"top-posting", "Jeopardy" (because the answer comes before the
question), or "TOFU" (Text Over, Fullquote Under).
Reversing the chronology of the dialog makes it much harder to
understand (some folks won't even read it if written in that style).
For more information on quoting style, see:
http://web.presby.edu/~nnqadmin/nnq/nquote.html
Speak Perl rather than English, when possible
Perl is much more precise than natural language. Saying it in Perl
instead will avoid misunderstanding your question or problem.
Do not say: I have variable with "foo\tbar" in it.
Instead say: I have $var = "foo\tbar", or I have $var = 'foo\tbar',
or I have $var = <DATA> (and show the data line).
Ask perl to help you
You can ask perl itself to help you find common programming mistakes
by doing two things: enable warnings (perldoc warnings) and enable
"strict"ures (perldoc strict).
You should not bother the hundreds/thousands of readers of the
newsgroup without first seeing if a machine can help you find your
problem. It is demeaning to be asked to do the work of a machine. It
will annoy the readers of your article.
You can look up any of the messages that perl might issue to find
out what the message means and how to resolve the potential mistake
(perldoc perldiag). If you would like perl to look them up for you,
you can put "use diagnostics;" near the top of your program.
Do not re-type Perl code
Use copy/paste or your editor's "import" function rather than
attempting to type in your code. If you make a typo you will get
followups about your typos instead of about the question you are
trying to get answered.
Provide enough information
If you do the things in this item, you will have an Extremely Good
chance of getting people to try and help you with your problem!
These features are a really big bonus toward your question winning
out over all of the other posts that you are competing with.
First make a short (less than 20-30 lines) and *complete* program
that illustrates the problem you are having. People should be able
to run your program by copy/pasting the code from your article. (You
will find that doing this step very often reveals your problem
directly. Leading to an answer much more quickly and reliably than
posting to Usenet.)
Describe *precisely* the input to your program. Also provide example
input data for your program. If you need to show file input, use the
__DATA__ token (perldata.pod) to provide the file contents inside of
your Perl program.
Show the output (including the verbatim text of any messages) of
your program.
Describe how you want the output to be different from what you are
getting.
If you have no idea at all of how to code up your situation, be sure
to at least describe the 2 things that you *do* know: input and
desired output.
Do not provide too much information
Do not just post your entire program for debugging. Most especially
do not post someone *else's* entire program.
Do not post binaries, HTML, or MIME
clpmisc is a text only newsgroup. If you have images or binaries
that explain your question, put them in a publically accessible
place (like a Web server) and provide a pointer to that location. If
you include code, cut and paste it directly in the message body.
Don't attach anything to the message. Don't post vcards or HTML.
Many people (and even some Usenet servers) will automatically filter
out such messages. Many people will not be able to easily read your
post. Plain text is something everyone can read.
Social faux pas to avoid
The first two below are symptoms of lots of FAQ asking here in clpmisc.
It happens so often that folks will assume that it is happening yet
again. If you have looked but not found, or found but didn't understand
the docs, say so in your article.
Asking a Frequently Asked Question
It should be understood that you may have missed the applicable FAQ
when you checked, which is not a big deal. But if the Frequently
Asked Question is worded similar to your question, folks will assume
that you did not look at all. Don't become indignant at pointers to
the FAQ, particularly if it solves your problem.
Asking a question easily answered by a cursory doc search
If folks think you have not even tried the obvious step of reading
the docs applicable to your problem, they are likely to become
annoyed.
If you are flamed for not checking when you *did* check, then just
shrug it off (and take the answer that you got).
Asking for emailed answers
Emailed answers benefit one person. Posted answers benefit the
entire community. If folks can take the time to answer your
question, then you can take the time to go get the answer in the
same place where you asked the question.
It is OK to ask for a *copy* of the answer to be emailed, but many
will ignore such requests anyway. If you munge your address, you
should never expect (or ask) to get email in response to a Usenet
post.
Ask the question here, get the answer here (maybe).
Beware of saying "doesn't work"
This is a "red flag" phrase. If you find yourself writing that,
pause and see if you can't describe what is not working without
saying "doesn't work". That is, describe how it is not what you
want.
Sending a "stealth" Cc copy
A "stealth Cc" is when you both email and post a reply without
indicating *in the body* that you are doing so.
Be extra cautious when you get upset
Count to ten before composing a followup when you are upset
This is recommended in all Usenet newsgroups. Here in clpmisc, most
flaming sub-threads are not about any feature of Perl at all! They
are most often for what was seen as a breach of netiquette. If you
have lurked for a bit, then you will know what is expected and won't
make such posts in the first place.
But if you get upset, wait a while before writing your followup. I
recommend waiting at least 30 minutes.
Count to ten after composing and before posting when you are upset
After you have written your followup, wait *another* 30 minutes
before committing yourself by posting it. You cannot take it back
once it has been said.
AUTHOR
Tad McClellan and many others on the comp.lang.perl.misc newsgroup.
--
Tad McClellan
email: perl -le "print scalar reverse qq/moc.noitatibaher\100cmdat/"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:15:17 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Programming Languages Decisions
Message-Id: <o5mdnUuKu9xq-TfVnZ2dnUVZ_o7inZ2d@earthlink.com>
<gw7rib@aol.com> wrote in message
news:6cc451a2-7a0a-4960-b8df-7595d54d24e8@34g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
So which is it?
This is an application where people will want to use the program to generate
data. They will enter numbers and look at the charts. Quite a few people
will also want to work with the original code and modify and expand the
program itself, computer programming, not just simple data generation.
Some time ago, to get things running I decided to go with Perl for a
programming language and then about a year and a half ago added Gnuplot for
graphics.
The Perl - Gnuplot application is now running fine. And I am going to be
circulating all the files etc. to other researchers. Not being a
professional programmer I am not certain if the Perl - Gnuplot combination
is the ideal choice. And my note was to ask other people if they thought
some other language or combination of programs might be better. Then if
someone asks me that I will be able to give them at least some type of
answer.
For the moment I am going ahead with the Perl - Gnuplot combination. One
advantage for people around the world is that with this combination,
everything is a free download. And if people are not interested in doing
any programming, only data processing, then they don't need to download
anything except my original program.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:10:58 +0200
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: Programming Languages Decisions
Message-Id: <g8dvf1.1i4.1@news.isolution.nl>
sln@netherlands.com schreef:
> Your crosspost has hit a Perl group though, not hardly a language to
> base calculation intensive operations on.
Stop these uninformed comments about Perl. The "not hardly" makes it
even worse.
Perl is fine as a glue language *too*. There are plenty of good
libraries with code that do the calculations at proper speed.
Perl wrappers make it all better.
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:29:59 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Programming Languages Decisions
Message-Id: <9LmdnVpACan19TfVnZ2dnUVZ_jidnZ2d@earthlink.com>
<sln@netherlands.com> wrote in message
news:e2mja4dohbeb8q3akdi4kttg65k8u22v7g@4ax.com...
> I don't see the original message here or where it originates but is
> Netcom still a domain?
Netcom is presently one of the domains owned by Earthlink
>
> Your crosspost has hit a Perl group though, not hardly a language to base
> calculation intensive operations on.
Perl is fast enough for this application. There are lots of repetitive
calculations. But they are mostly simple math. And I myself am happy with
the Perl - Gnuplot combination. But other people will be starting to expand
the program with their own equations and code. And I am trying to
anticipate what languages they might want to work with.
>
> I don't know what physics have changed (?), but unless someone has
> invented
> some new transcendental function, existing commercial math package should
> work for
> anything. There are a few good simulation software packages around.
By "physics discoveries" what I mean is that I have developed equations that
do a good job of showing how sun and moon gravitational forces are linked
with earthquakes etc. At the present time, most researchers do not know how
to get those types of calculations to work. For example, the most important
data appear to be related to the combination of both the sun and moon
gravities rather than the gravities of either the sun or moon by themselves.
And there are other important relationships that researchers need to take
into account while doing this type of work. Otherwise their data just look
like random numbers. When they do the right types of calculations the data
are spectacular. It is like an entierely new area of science being opened.
I don't have a fraction of the time needed to explore all of the
possibilities. That is one of the reasons I am circulating my programs to
other researchers around the world.
> I guess MatLab is a possibility as well.
>
> If its something you want to do from scratch and need speed, all
> languages resolve to assembly.
> So something like a structured C/C++ based application,
> or write a custom compiler for your own language.
I myself have never done any work with the C group of languages. But from
what I have heard about people discussing them I suspect that if government
scientists decide to choose a language for this application they might go
with one of them.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 01:36:51 -0500
From: "E.D.G." <edgrsprj@ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Programming Languages Decisions
Message-Id: <KeKdnVVq9fmZ9zfVnZ2dnUVZ_gqdnZ2d@earthlink.com>
"Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl> wrote in message
news:g8dvf1.1i4.1@news.isolution.nl...
> Perl is fine as a glue language *too*. There are plenty of good
> libraries with code that do the calculations at proper speed.
> Perl wrappers make it all better.
As I myself have been stating, Perl is working okay for me. What I am doing
right now is trying to anticipate what other languages people around the
world might want to work with should they decide they want to develop code
for this application. And I already know that there are researchers who are
going to want to do that. Perhaps they will decide to continue with the
Perl - Gnuplot combination and simply get things into a form where data
sharing between the two is a seamless operation. I am sure that it can be
done.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 21:57:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Arun <sajapuram.arun.prakash@gmail.com>
Subject: String
Message-Id: <24471173-7424-43c6-a81d-0c15557c7ef9@m73g2000hsh.googlegroups.com>
What is wrong with this string
$send_data = (print strftime "::DATA::123456789101112,%d.%m.%y,%H:%M:
%S,13.0076367,77.5489267,0,933.4,AirTel,31,0", gmtime);
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 05:29:01 GMT
From: Jürgen Exner <jurgenex@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: String
Message-Id: <jgmka4l1kc0uquv2bvlgk875127dofkisf@4ax.com>
Arun <sajapuram.arun.prakash@gmail.com> wrote:
>What is wrong with this string
>
>$send_data = (print strftime "::DATA::123456789101112,%d.%m.%y,%H:%M:
>%S,13.0076367,77.5489267,0,933.4,AirTel,31,0", gmtime);
Nothing as far as I can tell.
Unfortunately you don't tell us what _you_ expect $send_data to contain
versus what you are observing it to contain. Therefore there is no way
of telling if your system or your expectations are wrong.
jue
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:16:52 +0200
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: String
Message-Id: <g8dvof.1o0.1@news.isolution.nl>
Arun schreef:
> What is wrong with this string
>
> $send_data = (print strftime "::DATA::123456789101112,%d.%m.%y,%H:%M:
> %S,13.0076367,77.5489267,0,933.4,AirTel,31,0", gmtime);
There is nothing wrong with that string. If print succeeds, then it
returns 1.
You probably meant this:
$data = strftime(
"::DATA::123456789101112,%d.%m.%y,%H:%M:%S,13.0076367,77.5489267,0,933.4
,AirTel,31,0",
gmtime,
);
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
From: Perl-Users-Request@ruby.oce.orst.edu (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
Subject: Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01)
Message-Id: <null>
Administrivia:
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V11 Issue 1803
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