[26529] in Perl-Users-Digest
Perl-Users Digest, Issue: 8678 Volume: 10
daemon@ATHENA.MIT.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Thu Nov 17 09:05:22 2005
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 06:05:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Perl-Users Digest <Perl-Users-Request@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU>
To: Perl-Users@ruby.OCE.ORST.EDU (Perl-Users Digest)
Perl-Users Digest Thu, 17 Nov 2005 Volume: 10 Number: 8678
Today's topics:
/(foo|)/ vs /(foo)?/ <socyl@987jk.com.invalid>
Re: /(foo|)/ vs /(foo)?/ (Anno Siegel)
Re: /(foo|)/ vs /(foo)?/ <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting <no@email.com>
Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Re: [OT] Hiding from Google <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca>
Re: [OT] mail bouncing (was: Google Groups: vote for De <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: [OT] spam filters (was: Google Groups: vote for Def <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: How to use GUI: Win32::GUI If You Need Accessibilit <vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi>
Re: strange problem with system() and backtick operator <news@chaos-net.de>
Re: strange problem with system() and backtick operator <news@chaos-net.de>
xor syntax <whoever@whereever.com>
Re: xor syntax (Anno Siegel)
Re: xor syntax <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Re: xor syntax <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Re: xor syntax <whoever@whereever.com>
Re: xor syntax (Anno Siegel)
Digest Administrivia (Last modified: 6 Apr 01) (Perl-Users-Digest Admin)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:21:19 +0000 (UTC)
From: kj <socyl@987jk.com.invalid>
Subject: /(foo|)/ vs /(foo)?/
Message-Id: <dlhsjv$mqa$1@reader2.panix.com>
While looking at someone else's code I came across a regular
expression that included a construct like /(foo|)/. As far as I
can tell, it should produce the same result as /(foo)?/. But the
author of the code knows a heck of a lot more Perl than I do, so
I'm wondering why she would have picked the former over the latter.
Any ideas?
Thanks!
kj
P.S. I'm aware of the fact that /(|foo)/ would produce very different
results from /(foo|)/ or /(foo)?/, but that's neither here nor
there.
--
NOTE: In my address everything before the first period is backwards;
and the last period, and everything after it, should be discarded.
------------------------------
Date: 17 Nov 2005 12:59:21 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: /(foo|)/ vs /(foo)?/
Message-Id: <dlhur9$rtv$2@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
kj <socyl@987jk.com.invalid> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
>
>
>
>
> While looking at someone else's code I came across a regular
> expression that included a construct like /(foo|)/. As far as I
> can tell, it should produce the same result as /(foo)?/. But the
> author of the code knows a heck of a lot more Perl than I do, so
> I'm wondering why she would have picked the former over the latter.
> Any ideas?
The difference is in what is captured when no "foo" is found in the
string. /(foo|)/ matches an empty string, so $1 is an empty string
after the match. /(foo)?/ skips the match entirely, so $1 is undefined.
A subtle but relevant difference.
Anno
--
If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:26:37 +0100
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: /(foo|)/ vs /(foo)?/
Message-Id: <dli4cl.ko.1@news.isolution.nl>
kj:
> While looking at someone else's code I came across a regular
> expression that included a construct like /(foo|)/. As far as I
> can tell, it should produce the same result as /(foo)?/.
(foo|) is short for ((?:foo)?)
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:00:45 +0100
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting
Message-Id: <dlhv9q.1i8.1@news.isolution.nl>
Lars Kellogg-Stedman:
> auto-plonking people because you don't like their
> newsreader doesn't seem like a good way to keep Usenet a vibrant and
> thriving community.
A message header shouldn't show the name of the posting agent. See for
guidance 4.2.2 in son-of-RFC-1036.
--
Affijn, Ruud ("Do what I say, not what I do")
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:52:05 +0000
From: Brian Wakem <no@email.com>
Subject: Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting
Message-Id: <3u3cnlFu0m30U1@individual.net>
John Bokma wrote:
> Google Groups let you vote for new features. Vote for default quoting:
> <http://tinyurl.com/aqe6y>
>
> "Default quoting of previous message in replies"
>
> one above the last option.
>
> (which goes to <http://groups-beta.google.com/support/bin/request.py?
> contact_type=features> which wraps around in my client)
>
I think they should be issued a UDP until they comply.
--
Brian Wakem
Email: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/b.wakem/myemail.png
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:53:36 +0000
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0511171246230.1265@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk>
On Wed, 16 Nov 2005, Lars Kellogg-Stedman wrote:
> Seriously, though -- auto-plonking people because you don't like their
> newsreader doesn't seem like a good way to keep Usenet a vibrant and
> thriving community.
Spending my time and effort reading followups that I can't understand
- because they're blurting out an answer to one point, - quoting and
citing nothing - and when one takes the trouble to refer to the
complete preceding post in the thread it's *still* impossible to work
out which point they're addressing; and ploughing through a whole
series of postings in which well-intentioned usenauts are trying to
educate GG posters to make themselves comprehensible, without having
much to say about the topic in hand; does not make for a "vibrant and
thriving community" in my world-view, I'm afraid.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:54:31 +0000
From: "Alan J. Flavell" <flavell@ph.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: [OT] Google Groups: vote for Default quoting
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.62.0511171227060.1265@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk>
On Thu, 17 Nov 2005, John Bokma wrote:
> Imagine your Usenet server is down, and you have an urgent question
> do you
>
> [a] nothing
> [b] use Google Groups?
If I have an *urgent* question, I would:
[i] refer to the documentation
[ii] use a search engine.
Google has excellent search engines. It's a pity their gateway into
usenet is the way that it is, but the Usenauts have been grumbling
about it for long enough that if GG cared what the Usenauts think,
they would have done something about it. Instead, they give the
impression of hijacking Usenet for their own purposes[1]
> I have done the latter in the past. Also note that some people using
> GG do post useful replies, etc.
I don't think anyone is denying that. Each individual has to take the
decision whether they can spare the time to trawl through the dross to
find the occasional gem. My choice has been - like our network
administrator - that some sources have been set to "default deny".
There are other routes by which one can become aware that a particular
poster belongs in the exceptions list.
Now I really must stop getting side-tracked by this.
cheers
[1] Now who was it who said, in an analogous situation, something like
"I *know* what the Internet is for, and you shan't have it" ? I must
have misremembered the wording, because google can't find it.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 07:59:22 -0500
From: "Matt Garrish" <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: [OT] Hiding from Google
Message-Id: <F8%ef.3208$w84.590036@news20.bellglobal.com>
"Ilya Zakharevich" <nospam-abuse@ilyaz.org> wrote in message
news:dlhbou$al2$1@agate.berkeley.edu...
> [A complimentary Cc of this posting was sent to
> Matt Garrish
> <matthew.garrish@sympatico.ca>], who wrote in article
> <zwQef.2008$KP5.277639@news20.bellglobal.com>:
>
>> > Google is evil. I'm not going to collect their cookies, let alone
>> > bother to vote.
>
>> Amateur. I toss their cookies! : )
>
> Hmm, this looks like this (silly) advice of swapping the grocery
> stores cards with your friends to hide you from the watch - in the
> case you also use a credit card.
Nope, you're reading way too much into it. Just a play on tossing one's
cookies... : )
Matt
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:22:46 +0100
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: [OT] mail bouncing (was: Google Groups: vote for Default quoting)
Message-Id: <dli0ff.16k.1@news.isolution.nl>
Gunnar Hjalmarsson:
> I bounce all Comcast.net
> messages with this link as an explanation:
> http://gunnar.cc/bounce/?d=comcast.net
"You appear to have sent a message via a mail server whose hostname ends
with comcast.net."
The 'appear' makes me wonder how you deduct that. Please don't trust the
HELO or the MAIL FROM, but check the actual IP-nr of the sending mail
server.
Bouncing has many meanings. I assume that you mean it as in RFC 2821
(where it has at least two meanings, the first is 'SMTP-reject').
554 Transaction failed (see http://gunnar.cc/bounce/?d=comcast.net)
Never 'bounce' after the message has been SMTP-accepted. In other words:
never compose a bounce message yourself. The bounce message should be
created by the server that tried to hand-over the unwanted message
(because of the 5xx you returned).
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:14:05 +0100
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: [OT] spam filters (was: Google Groups: vote for Default quoting)
Message-Id: <dlhsbt.ok.1@news.isolution.nl>
John Bokma:
> most spamfilters are very
> sophisticated software that use a weighted score from many rules.
Only on the user level, not on the SMTP level. Always see at least 2
types of spam filters, like central and local, or external and internal.
Most spam is rejected directly after the envelope data is in (so the
message is actually never sent). Reverse-DNS can be one of the checks.
The number of recipients another. Greylisting another.
Some mail servers even reject connections at the port-level, based on
the IP-nr of the machine that wants to open a connection to port 25. For
this you need a firewall that can hold a large list of unwelcome
IP-ranges. It's even better to redirect the connection to a playful
server that tries to keep the sending server as occupied as possible.
So there might be many rules in spamfilters, but before those are used,
most spam is already rejected, with very simple rules, like a check of
the reputation of the mail server that wants to connect.
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:16:36 +0200
From: "Veli-Pekka Tätilä" <vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi>
Subject: Re: How to use GUI: Win32::GUI If You Need Accessibility
Message-Id: <dlhsbc$d7g$1@news.oulu.fi>
V S Rawat wrote:
> in continuation of my Hindi to Unicode font transliteration program <snip>
> I want it to have a input text box in which I would paste the
> contents from clipboard <snip>
> I will press a key to convert, and it should give me the
> converted rtf8/unicode text in another text box <snip>
Hi,
I'd recommend you go with the Win32::GUI package if it supports unicode.
Their home page is at:
http://sourceforge.net/projects/perl-win32-gui
The documentation can be found on-line, too:
http://jeb.ca/perl/win32-gui-docs/index.pl/home
The module is still a bit experimental, though:
One of my biggest gripes is that there are no layout managers as in Java and
you don't seem to be able to pull in dialogs from resource files as far as I
can tell. The second bad thing is that I haven't figured out where to get
the exact font metrics that can be used to write resolution, font and DPI
independent code in Windows apps. I dislike hardcoding sizes if I can avoid
it.
On the up-side, all controls are native to say the least and event handling
is considerably simpler than in java, very Perlish in my view, though it
also reminds me of Visual Basic. Be warned: if you need to use OLE in some
of your programming efforts, you cannot run the GUI in its own thread
because OLE and threads are buggy. Perl will crash consistantly with a
highly cryptic error message if you try to use the two at once.
For message boxes and common dialogs, Active State's core Win32 functions
(MsgBox) as well as Win32::FileOp may be of interest.
A word of warning:
Though it may be nice to program, the popular TK GUi library is horibly
inaccessible on Win32. So if you're user-base includes people who have to
use a screen reader program to access Windows, that is blind or low-vision
users, I recommend you stick to Win32::GUI. Accessibility is still quite a
nieche for most sighted designers but thought I'd let you know.
As to what's wrong in TK as far as accessibility goes, I'll quote my self in
the Perl-Win32 list:
Quote:
Ok, I just installed Active TCL with the default settings and tried out both
the TK samples of Active TCL and the Synopsis code of Perl's TKX package.
But when it comes to accessibility, I'm very disappointed. I'm using Dolphin
Supernova 6.x but I doubt Jaws would be able to handle things any better as
TK seems so fundamentally inaccessible. Warning subjective ranting ahead:
The good news, compared to Swing, the widgets do look very much like their
Win32 counterparts to me and TK perfectly respects my color scheme, too.
However, very few controls are accessible. The title bars and some HTML
areas seem to be but virtually nothing else is. static text, the various
buttons and text fields just don't seem to be there as far as the screen
reader goes. It announces right from the start no focus detected and is not
able to read any control text, type and state, navigate between the controls
or manipulate them. Even when using a screen reader specific navigation mode
called virtual focus, it doesn't go beyond the title bar in most cases. I've
changed the screen reader map file to MSAA Application with no visible
improvements [even though TKX should support Active Accessibility].
Also some gripes about TK. As is the case with so many custom GUIs that try
to be Windows like, it feels sort of clumsy in places. Edit areas don't seem
to have the familiar context menu with choices like select all, copy or
undo. Scroll bars don't have context menus either when even Notepad does
have them. Keybord usage is a bit patchy, too. In the 50 States example, the
arrow keys, as well as, pg up/down and home/end don't move the selection in
the list box. Neither is item searching by rapidly typing in one or more
letters implemented.
End quote.
If you can use neither the display nor the mouse properly, a half-hearted
keyboard interface and failing to render the GUi as text ( speech and
braille) is more than a bit annoying. It means that many of the Win32 ports
of popular open-source software written using TK or GTK cannot be used by
the visually impaired at all. Again I'm not saying no-one should use TK
because of this. But it is annoying to find out you cannot use some piece of
software for accessibility reasons. A robust keyboard interface will also
help sighted power-users and accessible applications are easier to automate
in UI testing.
Nearly all command-line apps are accessible, though, so maybe you should
also offer the console version in addition to the GUI. But this doesn't mean
that a sight-impaired user couldn't enjoy the GUI, either. After having seen
Windowss I'll never go back to DOS big time, and use the LInux console
grudgingly, preferring Gnome. Well actually I prefer KDE, but that's not yet
accessible so here we go again.
There are many books and articles dealing with TK but I haven't seen the
Win32::GUI package discussed that widely so I thought I'd mention it as an
alternative.
--
With kind regards Veli-Pekka Tätilä (vtatila@mail.student.oulu.fi)
Accessibility, game music, synthesizers and programming:
http://www.student.oulu.fi/~vtatila/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:38:10 +0100
From: Martin Kissner <news@chaos-net.de>
Subject: Re: strange problem with system() and backtick operator
Message-Id: <slrndnp1u2.1qb.news@maki.homeunix.net>
Tad McClellan wrote :
>Martin Kissner wrote:
>
> But you don't "have it" yet, so let's keep trying...
Thank you for your help, I really appreciate it.
>
> There is an abstract concept called a "number".
>
> [...]
>
> All of those representations correspond to the *same number*, they
> are just different ways of writing the same thing.
Okay, so the "number" ten (1010b, 012, 10 0xA) is "the number of my fingers".
>
>> If I understand right, I should use "chmod oct($mode), 'file'" (like I
>> did ;-)) if $mode is the result of an addition
>
> No!
>
> You should use "chmod oct($mode) when $mode is a *string*
> (not when it is a number).
>
>> (and not an octal value).
>
>
> There is no such thing as an "octal value".
>
> There could be a number that is represented in octal (base 8) though.
I think I understand.
The question is:
What is the best way to use chmod if i have a number that is represented
in decimal (i.e. 644) but I need a number represented in octal with
identical digits (0644).
--- aaahhhh ---
While writing this, I think I really get it.
If I want to use chmod with a number and I can only produce the decimal
representation I need to use the decimal representation of 0644 which is
420.
I only have to change one line within a loop in my sub which parses
the first column of the ftp directory listing and returns a _number_
"$multiplier *= 8;" instead of "$multiplier *= 10;"
Thanks again.
This made my day.
Best regards
Martin
--
perl -e '$S=[[73,116,114,115,31,96],[108,109,114,102,99,112],
[29,77,98,111,105,29],[100,93,95,103,97,110]];
for(0..3){for$s(0..5){print(chr($S->[$_]->[$s]+$_+1))}}'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:39:42 +0100
From: Martin Kissner <news@chaos-net.de>
Subject: Re: strange problem with system() and backtick operator
Message-Id: <slrndnp20u.1qb.news@maki.homeunix.net>
John W. Krahn wrote :
> Martin Kissner wrote:
>>
>> btw: is there a built-in function to manipulate modification time of
>> files in Perl?
>
> perldoc -f utime
Thank you for this hint.
Right now I am travelling. I'll check this out as soon as I am back
home.
Best regards
Martin
--
perl -e '$S=[[73,116,114,115,31,96],[108,109,114,102,99,112],
[29,77,98,111,105,29],[100,93,95,103,97,110]];
for(0..3){for$s(0..5){print(chr($S->[$_]->[$s]+$_+1))}}'
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 12:52:40 -0000
From: "IanW" <whoever@whereever.com>
Subject: xor syntax
Message-Id: <dlhueo$40e$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
If I have a string $encrypted that has been "XORed with 0xAA" and I want to
decode that into $decrypted, how do I do this in Perl?
Thanks
Ian
------------------------------
Date: 17 Nov 2005 13:13:50 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: xor syntax
Message-Id: <dlhvme$rtv$3@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
IanW <whoever@whereever.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> If I have a string $encrypted that has been "XORed with 0xAA" and I want to
> decode that into $decrypted, how do I do this in Perl?
Not much of an encryption... Like in any language, you xor it with
0xAA again to decrypt. Untested:
my $plain = $cipher ^ chr( 0xaa) x length $str;
Anno
--
If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:16:37 GMT
From: "A. Sinan Unur" <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
Subject: Re: xor syntax
Message-Id: <Xns97115432F2F0Easu1cornelledu@127.0.0.1>
"IanW" <whoever@whereever.com> wrote in
news:dlhueo$40e$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk:
> If I have a string $encrypted that has been "XORed with 0xAA" and I
> want to decode that into $decrypted, how do I do this in Perl?
The binary XOR operator in Perl is ^
D:\Home\asu1\UseNet\clpmisc> perl -e "print 0x7 ^ 0x4, qq{\n}"
3
See also perldoc perlop.
Sinan
--
A. Sinan Unur <1usa@llenroc.ude.invalid>
(reverse each component and remove .invalid for email address)
comp.lang.perl.misc guidelines on the WWW:
http://mail.augustmail.com/~tadmc/clpmisc/clpmisc_guidelines.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 14:25:45 +0100
From: "Dr.Ruud" <rvtol+news@isolution.nl>
Subject: Re: xor syntax
Message-Id: <dli4ck.ko.1@news.isolution.nl>
IanW schreef:
> If I have a string $encrypted that has been "XORed with 0xAA" and I
> want to decode that into $decrypted, how do I do this in Perl?
Encrypt it again.
:)
--
Affijn, Ruud
"Gewoon is een tijger."
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 13:52:30 -0000
From: "IanW" <whoever@whereever.com>
Subject: Re: xor syntax
Message-Id: <dli1uu$5a0$1@blackmamba.itd.rl.ac.uk>
"Anno Siegel" <anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
news:dlhvme$rtv$3@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE...
> IanW <whoever@whereever.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>> If I have a string $encrypted that has been "XORed with 0xAA" and I want
>> to
>> decode that into $decrypted, how do I do this in Perl?
>
> Not much of an encryption... Like in any language, you xor it with
> 0xAA again to decrypt. Untested:
>
> my $plain = $cipher ^ chr( 0xaa) x length $str;
thanks, that's spot-on.. well, except that $cipher and $str should be the
same.
Ian
------------------------------
Date: 17 Nov 2005 13:57:38 GMT
From: anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de (Anno Siegel)
Subject: Re: xor syntax
Message-Id: <dli28i$rtv$4@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
IanW <whoever@whereever.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
>
> "Anno Siegel" <anno4000@lublin.zrz.tu-berlin.de> wrote in message
> news:dlhvme$rtv$3@mamenchi.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE...
> > IanW <whoever@whereever.com> wrote in comp.lang.perl.misc:
> >> If I have a string $encrypted that has been "XORed with 0xAA" and I want
> >> to
> >> decode that into $decrypted, how do I do this in Perl?
> >
> > Not much of an encryption... Like in any language, you xor it with
> > 0xAA again to decrypt. Untested:
> >
> > my $plain = $cipher ^ chr( 0xaa) x length $str;
>
> thanks, that's spot-on.. well, except that $cipher and $str should be the
> same.
Right.
my $plain = $cipher ^ chr( 0xaa) x length $cipher;
Anno
--
If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Apr 2001 21:33:47 GMT (Last modified)
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------------------------------
End of Perl-Users Digest V10 Issue 8678
***************************************
